sky9

BAA: The Board

Isn't it about time one of the above should fall on his sword and resign?

They could then get someone in from Zürich, Geneva or Munich to run the airport.

FullWings

Maybe they could get out to LHR and bring a few shovels with them? Latest reports have 27L being shut until Wednesday at the earliest. It's now nearly two days since the last snow but as I write I can see the first few flakes of the next lot...

Might as well give up now.

M2dude

Oh I'm sure that they'll want to refund landing and parking charges to all the airlines. (And maybe give their security staff a humanity and common sense shot too). It really is a freekin' disgrace).

Regards
Dude

martinidoc

Wonder why there was a differential effect with T5 being closed earlier and for longer. Could it be that the specification of service level agreed between BAA and BA was inadequate? Why did BA cancel many of their flights on Thursday when there was no weather reason to do so, apart from at Aberdeen? One gets the impression that BA can't be bothered when things get too difficult, and the management have lost control to the extent that the inconvenience of the staff is a higher priority than that of the passengers. There were hardly any BA staff to be seen anywhere on when the chaos started on Thursday, and the low level customer service people who were around were not empowered to do anything. "Landing" or getting people out of the terminal is a shambolic event, which seems more akin to the "kettling" techniques for controlling riots.
They don't need to go to the Geneva etc to find out how to keep an airfield open, Newcastle will do, where several of the BA longhaul fleet are presently residing.

KBPsen

DB6

What you can't expect from these people are morals. Anyone who authorises or permits no water to be available airside except if you buy it, no waiting or dropoffs except if you pay for it, security plastic bags for £1 each etc. etc. sits alongside the dog**** I scrape off my shoe on a bad day. I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire.

letMfly

Why should a foreign owned company invest millions in snow clearing equipment for a "once in twenty years" event?
This is what happens when a country sells off its strategic assets to private companies that have profit as their number one objective.
Our ATC system is next to be flogged off to the highest bidder!

stuckgear

DB6, you're kinda beating round the bush a bit there.. !

What's really yanking 3 meters of barbed wire through my starfish right now is who is going to be picking up the bill on the scheduled flight delays etc. ?

yep you've guessed it.

and the airlines pay how much for landing and handling at LHR ? On top of the pax are paying exactly how much in taxation on their flight tickets ????

what did BAA turn profit wise last year.. 1 billion UK ?

when this industry is on its knees, broken and bloody, we have had several instances this year of major interruptions to operations leaving the carriers to foot the bill for delays the inability to operate their schedules, meanwhile the passengers are punitively taxed for the privilege, airlines are taxed punitively for the privilege and the airlines have no option to take it in the a$$, which then translates down to loss of margins, which translates to lower T&C's to stay profitable.

Caught an interview on radio this AM with a 'spokesperson' for BAA heathrow who cited an 'unprecidented' level of snow.

"unprecedented" that word gets thrown about way too much as an excuse for failure.

though i'm sure "lessons will be learned'!

stuckgear

yep, it's just a shame that the '1 in twenty year event' has happened, what, 6 times in the past 14 months !!

just as well we have the "Met Office weather and climate change forecasts for the UK and worldwide."

Hmm hows that (factored) 0.2 deg rise in temp working for ya !

oh sorry, that's climate, this is weather..

stuckgear

Sorry, i find this picture graphically incorrect:

With two 'snow removal exectives' at work, there should be at least 4 health and safety inspectors to make sure that any broom is the used to correct way round to prevent injury to bystanders and the general public.

Even though they are in hi-vis, there are no hard hats, the area they are working in is not fenced off, no crash barriers erected and no signage to indicate the risk of slipping, and signage to indicate the risk of tripping on the 'risk of slipping' signage. etc etc etc.

WHBM

Plenty of comparisons with Helsinki going around.

One that needs more emphasis is that Helsinki Vantaa is seen as a key strategic part of the national infrastructure, treated by the government and its operator in these terms. In comparison Heathrow was allowed by the Department for Transport to be flogged off to Spanish investors without any consideration for how their extreme economies and squeezes on cost would affect the UK's transport, or the overall economy.

Heathrow has two runways, Helsinki has three, one of recent build. In a country of high environmental awareness there was no pandering to the Greens on building that. When it's snowing when I am there they always manage to keep two operational while ploughing the third, then they switch round.

This morning the current UK Transport Secretary Philip Hammond (MP for Weybridge, prime Hacan territory of course) gave his usual bumbling, um-ah-er, type of TV interview about the new railway from London to Birmingham, stating that there was a need to "anticipate increases in demand, the present railway will soon be full up, and provide for resilience of the future transport network for the sake of the UK economy". And so 120 miles of countryside will be dug up.

This is a curious contrast. Go by train today from Euston to Birmingham and you will see several First Class coaches with about half a dozen passengers in each one, not surprising when the fares for this are higher than BA charged me last time from London to New York (yes, really), meanwhile Heathrow is already beyond capacity on the runways, and has been for years, yet no third runway for them, and it is allowed to be sold to the chancers from Madrid. Why is resilience important at the DfT on one railway route in Britain, but not for the premier airport of the country ?

Separately, who was the BAA buffoon on BBC news this morning who said aircraft de-icer was ineffective below -10 ? Do they think aviation in Helsinki and much of Russia shuts down for three months in the winter ? How do they think the BA A320 which overnights in Helsinki each day ( -21 tonight) manages to get away on time right through the winter ?

Track Coastal

Don't want to intrude but being an APP Radar controller thats worked in Canada and now in a warm part of Australia, I read a paper once that a warming pole will interrupt the cold deep water Atlantic conveyor from the arctic that feeds the surface warm Gulf stream that flows from the Caribbean to the West of Ireland.

The Gulf Stream keeps the British Isles at low moist temps.

Should the Gulfstream hiccup or stop, you are at similar latitudes to Canada's cities and Moscow etc. so that may be your weather patterns.

The similar Pacific stream keeps Vancouver mild whilst Edmonton freezes.

I'm undecided if its anthro or not but the climate appears to be changing.

birdstrike

.....and couldn't they find a 'spokesperson' rather better informed than the guy who appears on the news. Apart from the inevitable ''what if'' scenarios he spouts on every occasion he offers nothing of any value at all. As for an apology for their pathetic performance - don't hold your breath!!

simfly

Someone mentioned Aberdeen before... Here, we have had regular SNOCLO periods, however, we are usually closed for up to 90 mins. It takes approx 1 hour to clear & de-ice the runway and movements continue, albeit at a slightly slower pace. Our runway is half the length of Heathrow, so I don't understand why nearly 48 hours after their snowfall they only have 1 runway clear? Fair enough they have mile after mile of taxiway and stands, but c'mon??

J.O.

You folks don't get it. This is just the Spanish taking another shot at the UK carriers because what their ATC does to you is clearly not enough.

Seriously though, there does need to be a bit more understanding when it comes to the reaction some people are taking. To set up the kind of winter ops infrastructure that you see in places like Helsinki would be very expensive for what has traditionally been infrequent use.

Track Coastal

In Calgary it took about 20mins an hour with huge multion dollar beasts from a sci fi movie.

It now gets done in 10mins.
YouTube - Vammas PSB 5500


The older kit
YouTube - Vammas PSB 4500

green granite

Presumably they cant employ say a thousand out of work navies cos they don't have air-side passes, or does that go by the board when it suits them?

The government should have the power to fine the company say 50% of their profit and tell them if it happens again it'll be 100%

Trumpet_trousers

I think what peeves most people is the fact that there is little, if any information given to people regarding delays etc. Weather conditions aside, the latest fiasco is just one of many where "authorities" either are incapable or simply will not provide any information to the poor traveller. Communication is a wonderful thing, and goes quite a long way to keeping the travellers onside and not simply feeling completely neglected - just how difficult is it to keep the public at large informed? Obviously, in the case of BAA and some airlines, extremely so!

martinidoc

Tried going on BA.com? don't bother, about as useful as trying to go the airport.

Extract from the BA home page:

"Please do not go to the airport unless you have a confirmed booking on a flight that is operating.

Due to high call volumes and website visits you may experience delays contacting us or changing your booking."

In fact the website seems to have crashed presumably due to inability to clear precipitation on the inbound broadband.

El Grifo

How are things being handled in other European Airports can anyone say.

Germany for example, has had some pretty significant dumps in recent days, are they displaying the same level of chaos as LGW and LHR.

How or other affected areas coping ?