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Old 9th Sep 2014, 16:02
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...why let that get in the away of fantasy
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 16:21
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Virgin's best way forward, certainly in Scotland, is a part or full week based aircraft
I'm not sure what you mean by this, but if you are suggesting a weekly frequency (one rotation a week) they don't work as the higher revenue passengers require the flexibility of a daily service, so the lower frequency services primatily attract low revenue passengers.

The common misconception is that if you are 50% filling 7 flights a week you can 100% fill 3 flights a week as that is (roughly) the same number of passengers. It doesn't work that way, you will lose passenger volume as they spill onto other carriers offering better flexibility.
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 16:38
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...why let that get in the away of fantasy
The former BAA CEO of Scottish Airports was fantasying when he said this?

"Mr Dowds said several million Edinburgh passengers a year were
travelling to long-haul destinations via other airports when they could
be served by direct routes."

Source: £400 million bill to expand airport - The Scotsman
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 16:47
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largest Indian community in Scotland isn't in Edinburgh
Airport catchments do not really reflect endemic populations, if an airport is convenient and accessible and offers connections, direct or otherwise, they will use it.

This from RASCO highlights Scotland's central belt access times.

1-hour access time by road:

To Edinburgh Airport : 2,536m or 50.1% of the Scottish population
To Glasgow Airport : 1,982m or 39.2% of the Scottish population
To Prestwick Airport : 1,401m or 27.7% of the Scottish population

2-hour access by road:

To Edinburgh Airport : 4,01m or 79.2% of the Scottish population
To Glasgow Airport : 3,756m or 74.2% of the Scottish population
To Prestwick Airport : 3,407m or 67.3% of the Scottish population
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 16:54
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Could you confirm for me then; if VS drop the LHR-MAN/EDI/ABZ routes then EI can take up the slots as they currently operate the wet lease aircraft. Thanks.
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 17:01
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Regardless of the potential for Scotland - India traffic, Virgin Atlantic will not be the carrier launching a service. The clear message from last week is that North Atlantic routes to the USA in conjunction with Delta are the future focus. That is where any new initiatives (from Scotland or elsewhere) will be seen.
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 17:04
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Little red

MAN slots were and are VS slots so no on those,

Regards the other routes, I am not sure, EI bid for them and were the only other carrier, other than VS interested in them at that time, it's possible EI would get them with conditions but I believe the Times story is not based on fact rather it's
Their opinion of the current route prospects
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 17:43
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Airport catchments do not really reflect endemic populations, if an airport is convenient and accessible and offers connections, direct or otherwise, they will use it.
Well that's a start but :
1) Price has to be right
2) Frequency matters, if EK/QR/EY can offer a daily one stop for cheaper than a twice weekly non stop route, then the latter will not work, see PIA at Glasgow for proof.
3) There's not enough Indians in Scotland to maker irt viable unless you assume that Pakistanis (there's loads of them in Glasgow) are the same as Indians and they'll happily connect over Mumbai.....think about it ! By your own stats Joe, PIK should be doing way better, once again you choose the stats you fancy and present them in isolation.
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 18:36
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To Edinburgh Airport : 2,536m or 50.1% of the Scottish population
Blimey, didn't realise so many people lived in Scotland - wonder it hasn't sunk into the sea!
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 18:59
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Hangar 6 and The Royal Family

Under the original agreement the 'remedy' slots revert to IAG if VS fail to use them on the relevant routes for 3 full years. It is definitely not the case that EI would automatically inherit the slots, although I am not clear whether the slot trustee would invite bids from airlines to take over from VS. In which case EI might bid.

As Hangar 6 says, this only applies to the EDI and ABZ slots. The MAN slots are nothing to do with the 'remedy' issues and always belonged to VS.

As for VS's rather limp response to the Sunday Times article, one reason might be that the original agreement includes penalties for VS if they return the slots at a time which results in IAG losing their 'grandfathering' rights to the slots. However there is a window during each scheduling season when VS can notify their intention to terminate the slot agreement without risking such a penalty. The next window appears to be the two-week period that follows the next IATA scheduling conference, which is in November. So we might expect VS to confirm their withdrawal sometime between November 14th and 28th, presumably effective from the Summer 2015 scheduling season.

Last edited by BasilBush; 9th Sep 2014 at 19:14.
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 20:14
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see PIA at Glasgow for proof.
Perhaps PIA were not aware of the RASCO findings?
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 20:34
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It's not about the numbers in the catchment area. It's about the numbers of people in the catchment area all wanting to go to the same place. EK has the convenience of double daily. PK was just 2 or 3 weekly going to the community that has 4 times as many potential customers as EDI. Perhaps you are going to tell is the EK is not aware of those finding as well.

For EDI-India, you want to have a limited frequency VS operation going up against both QR and EY...what's in it for VS apart from red ink? They were loathe to even contemplate MAN-HKG which had the potential to not need connections at either end given the size of the market
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 21:12
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Perhaps you are going to tell is the EK is not aware of those finding as well.
EK obviously had assured 'no competition' from BAA who pulled the strings at their then central Scotland airports. It will be interesting how aware EK become
when the forthcoming competition begins to bite.
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 21:57
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Perhaps PIA were not aware of the RASCO findings?
The RASCO findings are a set of statistical measurements. They are an abstract measurement whereas loads, yields, passenger behaviour(s) are quantifiable real world measurable activities. The second set is human driven and we're not entirely rational, that's Marketing 1-01. Joe you just like to argue for the sake of it sometimes and it's always pro EDI vs bad BAA / GLA.

This is the Virgin thread, not the BAA bashing one. Virgin are not launching EDI-India in your lifetime, or even mine....
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 22:26
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I can't understand why VS don't just close down all operations from Heathrow, Gatwick, Manchester and Glasgow and move lock-stock and barrel to Edinburgh. It is the world's major CAPITAL with a castle after all. Hell, to this day I still don't know why BA have yet to relocate their hub to EGPH. Would solve the problem of a third-runway at EGLL over night.

Did I mention that Edinburgh is a capital and it has a castle?
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Old 10th Sep 2014, 08:50
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Did I mention that Edinburgh is a capital and it has a castle?
Many times and in many guises.
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Old 10th Sep 2014, 10:06
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The RASCO figures I have access to appear to be over 15 years old, surely we are not making wild assumptions based on those ? Or have I missed much more recent data ?
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 00:11
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Flying Penguin I am assuming that was a pathetic and humerous suggestion?
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Old 1st Oct 2014, 14:27
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Extra GLA

Extra Sunday flight to MCO next summer

BBC News - Virgin adds new flights from Glasgow in summer 2015
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Old 3rd Oct 2014, 07:40
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Little Red

Rumour is, VS have signed or re-affirmed handling contracts at EDI & ABZ. No word on MAN.
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