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Old 22nd Oct 2012, 16:42
  #1481 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
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Three months is all that the EU will require FR to pull off routes and open up competition. After 91 days expect the biggest "seat sale" that the world has seen. If you look back to recent history then you only have to see the blood on the floor when Easy tried flying into the Republic.

Even Veradkar who isn't exactly the sharpest tool in the box has acknowledged only last week that overseas/non irish airlines can't be expected to be loyal to Ireland. In other words they will scarper when the going gets tough. Also the LHR slots will be much more valuable flying somewhere else and no doubt with the right political posturing then they can turn them into long haul slots should the need arise in the future. The government acknowledged this about 6 months ago when they conceded that there is no cast iron way that they can ensure that the LHR slots are kept once they sell their shares.

Anyone that thinks that open competition will occur following an FR takeover is living in cloud cuckoo land.

Last edited by MCDU2; 22nd Oct 2012 at 16:43.
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Old 22nd Oct 2012, 16:47
  #1482 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ireland
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Originally Posted by waffler
There is no compulsion for aircraft taking Aer Lingus slots at heathrow to serve Dublin forever.
True, but if there's money to be made...

Ryanair themselves employ few people directly, most are employed through agencies but I will them describe the joys of that.
Not the point I was trying to make though. They could base their Head Office in any country, some with better tax arrangements, but they choose to stay in Ireland.

Originally Posted by waffler
Perhaps you could research how much tax Ryanair paid to revenue in Ireland over the last few years to see if this takeover will benefit the government.
According to their 2011 Annual Report, they paid 49.9m in tax based on a profit of 450.6m (excluding exceptional items). How much of that was paid to the Irish government I haven't a clue.

Compare that to Google though, who paid just 8m in tax last year to the Irish government based on a profit of 9bn.

Last edited by dublinaviator; 22nd Oct 2012 at 16:53.
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Old 22nd Oct 2012, 17:04
  #1483 (permalink)  
 
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Not the point I was trying to make though. They could base their Head Office in any country, some with better tax arrangements, but they choose to stay in Ireland.
Could you name on as Ireland is the cheepest place in Europe for them to have there HQ. Remenber most FR employees are on Irish contracts.

Anyone that thinks that open competition will occur following an FR takeover is living in cloud cuckoo land.
Couldn't put it better myself.

Last edited by j636; 22nd Oct 2012 at 17:05.
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Old 22nd Oct 2012, 17:21
  #1484 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Originally Posted by j636
Could you name on as Ireland is the cheepest place in Europe for them to have there HQ. Remenber most FR employees are on Irish contracts.
Based on what criteria? If you're talking about the corporate tax rate, they could retain a tax base in Ireland while outsourcing most of the management functions to another country. But Ireland doesn't even have the lowest corporate tax rate in the EU, that goes to the Canary Islands whose rate is just 4%. The next lowest rate is in Cyprus, Hungary, and Bulgaria at 10%.
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Old 22nd Oct 2012, 17:55
  #1485 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: dublin
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Unhappy FR bid

Hi
I am enjoying the discussion , having worked for both companies have a few inputs myself, currently I work in DAP , not for FR or EI

FR value if EI is really low given the oppurtunity his bid gives to eliminate a competitor, yes that is MOL ONLY strategy to date with buying airlines
eg What value LHR slots , EI has 46 of them I beleive

FR dont employ staff, I worked for them in 2001 , via an agency as do most Pilots all cabin crew , each "contractor" is told how to set up a private ltd company , and HAS to use an accountnat from a short list provided by MOL , he was or is an accountant ?

Recent Judge commentated on the truth and MOL being infrequent bedfellows , every promise he makes is to be taken with a pinch of salt.

I judge MOL on his PERSONNAL treatment of the lady who was the millioneth passenger, she had a letter from then CX confirming free flights for life, FR got huge publicity for this excellent reward, MOL went to the ends of the earth in his attempts to have this written guarantee of free flights removed from the lady. She was not for turning, thankfully he failed.

MOL has developed a great airline, a modern day miracle, thankfully I dont work for him and will never fly with him.

He will put in place an exit strategy for EI within 6 months, make a huge profit from his efforts and reture having removed a major blot on his CV , that being the large amount of wsted money spent by FR on EI bids , not to mention the large amounts EI have wasted defended these bids.

DAA will also be impacted, RE of course but most of all the staff and public will loose a choice , the very choice that a GVT TD gave us when he forced EI out of STN and LPL among other palces to ensure FR stop loosing money and grew, a strategy that saved FR and helped EI and the result was a choice of two solid Iirsh Airlines.

I believe FR are in Dublin becuase Ireland is very friendly on tax, labour laws and of course the IAA gets a huge benefit from all those Irish registered aircraft fees. A bit cosy maybe but you can be sure being based in ROI allows FR to gain in many ways , without having to have many staff.

I hope FR and EI both prosper, if FR win EI then it will be at a very cheap price and customers will loose out.

just my cents worth
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Old 22nd Oct 2012, 18:01
  #1486 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
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Three months is all that the EU will require FR to pull off routes and open up competition. After 91 days expect the biggest "seat sale" that the world has seen. If you look back to recent history then you only have to see the blood on the floor when Easy tried flying into the Republic.
Different scenario as that was U2 parking its tanks on the lawn and then realising the lawn was really a swamp. U2 were never serious about this.

I don't see FR doing this as frankly it gains it nothing.......

Some old routes................great but you ignore the bigger picture.

FR is dealing with EU across Europe rather than just being an Irish domestic player. In going back on routes after 3 months would be seen as a sign of acting in bad faith.

This would get remembered each and every discussion with EU that takes place. Whether you acknowledge it or not Ryanair is a multimillion pound business that doesn't need that kind of hassle.

Give whoever flying the route 18 month to 2 years before going back is different because that is a reasonable length of time to build up a business. If you cannot do it in that time then you will never do it.


Even Veradkar who isn't exactly the sharpest tool in the box has acknowledged only last week that overseas/non irish airlines can't be expected to be loyal to Ireland. In other words they will scarper when the going gets tough. Also the LHR slots will be much more valuable flying somewhere else and no doubt with the right political posturing then they can turn them into long haul slots should the need arise in the future. The government acknowledged this about 6 months ago when they conceded that there is no cast iron way that they can ensure that the LHR slots are kept once they sell their shares.
Actually there is nothing stopping FR owning the slots and leasing them out to someone serving Dub-LHR, simply proviso is that is what they are used for. Leasing out assets like this or brand names or intellectual property is normal in business.

Aer Lingus have happily leased out slots before to other airlines.

A simple requirement is that FR cannot use the slots for a period of 5 years minimum unless there is no other airline willing to use the slots to provide competition to existing users. If FR are getting x million a year for the slots then why have the hassle.
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Old 23rd Oct 2012, 22:37
  #1487 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dublin
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FR have no interest in EI short haul services, all they want is EI long haul network which will keep Ryanair profitable long term as they can't cut there costs a huge amount more, in fact they will increase and the short haul market is becoming more of a problem for FR and current profits will turn to losses unless they change there approach to Europe. Just on the UK-IRL fare differences they are substantial and only because they can get away with it.
Quiet a statement and I don't know weather I agree or disagree but I am surprised the FR lovers haven't commented on it yet.
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Old 23rd Oct 2012, 22:58
  #1488 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Belfast
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Air Moldova

Sorry to change the subject. But how did Air Moldova do with their seasonal service to Dublin ? Will It return next year ?
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Old 24th Oct 2012, 12:51
  #1489 (permalink)  
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American Airlines resuming a daily 757 service to JFK form June 2013.

American Airlines Strengthens Its Network With Service To Cities In Asia, Europe And Latin America - Oct 24, 2012

Last edited by Jamie2k9; 24th Oct 2012 at 13:14. Reason: Replaced link to Offical one
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Old 24th Oct 2012, 13:29
  #1490 (permalink)  
 
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Good news but it may appear that its seasonal. AA operate some European routes June-October.

In some other news:
Plane aborted take-off at Dublin Airport in 2011 - RT News
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Old 24th Oct 2012, 18:39
  #1491 (permalink)  
 
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Confirmed by the DAA as being year-round:

Latest News > Dublin Airport Welcomes American Airline

Looks like there is going to be a massive increase in US-Ireland capacity next year. You'd wonder is it too much too soon and is there really that much of a gap in the market?
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Old 24th Oct 2012, 18:41
  #1492 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Dub-JFK

Surely must be reaching saturation - 2xEI A330, 1xDelta and now 1xAA (plus United to EWR)
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Old 24th Oct 2012, 18:44
  #1493 (permalink)  
 
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Mores the point weres it going to fit on t2!! I guess if its anything like the ord service aa run it shud arrive in dub well after the morning rush!!
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Old 24th Oct 2012, 18:57
  #1494 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
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Looks like there is going to be a massive increase in US-Ireland capacity next year. You'd wonder is it too much too soon and is there really that much of a gap in the market?
There is a huge gap in the market. There are very few flights to US from DUB in summer that have LF below 85-90%. Return flights to JFK from DUB are the most expensive in Europe during peak summer (according to article in US a few months ago) with aveage price $1500 for 1 passenger. EI are also carrying a huge amount of connecting passengers which has reduced capacity to IRE in a way and demand is there. EI should see a good increase in connecting passengers with BOS and ORD afternoon and morning departures.

The DAA are expecting up to 325,000 more passengers with the Gathering 2013 also so it will be well used and prices will drop however I don't think they will during the peak months.

Mores the point weres it going to fit on t2!! I guess if its anything like the ord service aa run it shud arrive in dub well after the morning rush!!
Indeed I arrived from LHR the other week we were kept waiting 20 mins before we got a stand and that was around 7.45.

Last edited by EI-A330-300; 24th Oct 2012 at 18:59.
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Old 24th Oct 2012, 19:17
  #1495 (permalink)  
 
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And if reports are correct that EI are growing strongly their connecting passenger number ex EU to USA, there will be in effect less capacity available for passenger originating in Ireland.

EI-BUD
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Old 25th Oct 2012, 00:24
  #1496 (permalink)  
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Mores the point weres it going to fit on t2!! I guess if its anything like the ord service aa run it shud arrive in dub well after the morning rush!!
One thing that will help a little is the A330 departure to AGP at 07.40 is being moved to 06.50 next summer.

And if reports are correct that EI are growing strongly their connecting passenger number ex EU to USA, there will be in effect less capacity available for passenger originating in Ireland.

EI-BUD
I estimate the increaed capacity from EI and the AA service that there is approx 165,000 extra seats available from DUB to the US next Summer based of the summer schedule from 31 March-26 October. It will now push DUB ever closer to the 2 million T/A passengers yearly. Many Americans start off in Ireland before flying onwords to Europe with EZY and FR.

Its not clear weather the AA service will be year dispite what the DAA press release says but that will be confirmed by 4 November. Wouldn't be suprised is Delta add a little capacity either.

Last edited by Jamie2k9; 25th Oct 2012 at 00:27.
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Old 25th Oct 2012, 22:35
  #1497 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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EI072 BFS 06:40-DUB 07:10. DUB 07:50 - FARO. What is the actual flying time BFS-DUB? Thanks
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Old 25th Oct 2012, 23:09
  #1498 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
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Another also due in at 07.30 and out to AGP at 08.10. Its to do with BFS base closoure on Sat lightly loaded aircraft they will be filled from DUB with the mid term. A few on Saturday to.
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Old 26th Oct 2012, 00:19
  #1499 (permalink)  
 
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What is the actual flying time BFS-DUB? Thanks
TCX used to have little battles. 20 mins was their best.
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Old 26th Oct 2012, 00:53
  #1500 (permalink)  
 
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What's this huge amount of connecting passengers on EI's long haul? Can someone put a daily volume or average % by load factor on it?

Thanks

Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 26th Oct 2012 at 00:54.
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