Marginal Airports (UK)
Thread Starter
Marginal Airports (UK)
On a number of AA&R threads, there is concern over the viability of smaller regional airports. Some have introduced local passenger charges (DTV, Norwich, Newquay etc), presumably because they are not making enough from airlines and other revenue sources.
Last year saw Coventry close for a few months, but although now re-opened, it looks unlikely that it will offer much in the way of passenger services in the near future.
We've also seen investment in some of the smaller airports; Doncaster/Sheffield is a totally new development based on the old RAF Finningley, Bournemouth has a new terminal just as most passenger services have stopped for the winter, and Southend is currently undergoing development.
So what does the future hold for these marginal airports, in the light of continuing economic difficulties? For the purposes of this debate I am looking at airline operations only, and not business aviation, training, general aviation, aircraft servicing, etc.
The airports I personally consider 'marginal' in this way include Southend, Durham Tees Valley, Plymouth, Oxford, Blackpool, Carlisle, Coventry, Bournemouth, Gloucester, Norwich, Manston, Lydd, Humberside and Doncaster/Sheffield. This list is not exhaustive.
Discuss...
Last year saw Coventry close for a few months, but although now re-opened, it looks unlikely that it will offer much in the way of passenger services in the near future.
We've also seen investment in some of the smaller airports; Doncaster/Sheffield is a totally new development based on the old RAF Finningley, Bournemouth has a new terminal just as most passenger services have stopped for the winter, and Southend is currently undergoing development.
So what does the future hold for these marginal airports, in the light of continuing economic difficulties? For the purposes of this debate I am looking at airline operations only, and not business aviation, training, general aviation, aircraft servicing, etc.
The airports I personally consider 'marginal' in this way include Southend, Durham Tees Valley, Plymouth, Oxford, Blackpool, Carlisle, Coventry, Bournemouth, Gloucester, Norwich, Manston, Lydd, Humberside and Doncaster/Sheffield. This list is not exhaustive.
Discuss...
Thread Starter
DJ6,
You are quite right of course, but I feel it will be 3-4 years before we return to the levels of business seen in 2007-8. In that time, these businesses have to survive, keep people employed, maintain equipment, etc.
You are quite right of course, but I feel it will be 3-4 years before we return to the levels of business seen in 2007-8. In that time, these businesses have to survive, keep people employed, maintain equipment, etc.
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Unfortunately, runways are not portable. It would be nice to have ones you could just roll up and take to where they were needed. The problem, however, with many of the airports that LGS6753 has named is that they are in the wrong place. Many years ago they may have been in the appropriate place for their then use, but times have changed, aviation has changed, people's needs and expectations have changed, and society has had to build its services around the infrastructure it inherited from yesteryear.
If we were building a new society on a blank canvas, we could make sure that airports were co-located with train stations, tram and bus termini, and had ample parking. People would be able to get to where they needed to quickly and easily, using a range of different transport means. What's that game called where you build stuff on squares? Sim-city? Like that.
Unfortunately, because we have runways that are no longer so advantageously situated as their purposes and society have changed, airport operators have needed to try all sorts of plans and schemes to find uses for them. Sadly, this is not always viable, and relying on historical reasons to keep an airport open is not a sufficient one.
Therefore, some will close, and, with planning rules as they are, will never reopen. I'm very much a fan of small airports, and the comfortable travel experience they offer; but they will find it hard to operate alongside the big hubs with their numerous destinations and frequent services.
If we were building a new society on a blank canvas, we could make sure that airports were co-located with train stations, tram and bus termini, and had ample parking. People would be able to get to where they needed to quickly and easily, using a range of different transport means. What's that game called where you build stuff on squares? Sim-city? Like that.
Unfortunately, because we have runways that are no longer so advantageously situated as their purposes and society have changed, airport operators have needed to try all sorts of plans and schemes to find uses for them. Sadly, this is not always viable, and relying on historical reasons to keep an airport open is not a sufficient one.
Therefore, some will close, and, with planning rules as they are, will never reopen. I'm very much a fan of small airports, and the comfortable travel experience they offer; but they will find it hard to operate alongside the big hubs with their numerous destinations and frequent services.
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You only have to read the Blackpool forum on here to read the sorry tale of a marginal airport,first fall out with your largest operator (Ryanair) then introduce a fee for using the virually non existant facilities,Hmm we are still open ,i know lets fall out with our remaining large operator (Jet2) by withdrawing ATC and fire cover after 9pm even though we were quite happy to let them timetable flights at those times,resulting in Jet2 getting a court judgement in their favour,Hmm what can we do now say the management ,Eureka ! lets downgrade fire cover so Jet2 cant operate a 733 size a/c that should do it!
They are obviously hoping to annoy airlines & passengers (like me a once regular flyer) enough to create uncertanty about booking from there again....
I love to use smaller airports when i can ,for all the obvious reasons of speed through the terminal etc,no one expects loads of facilities but the way some are being run makes you think they really dont want your buisness and like Balfour Beatty at Blackpool must be looking at the land for other uses
They are obviously hoping to annoy airlines & passengers (like me a once regular flyer) enough to create uncertanty about booking from there again....
I love to use smaller airports when i can ,for all the obvious reasons of speed through the terminal etc,no one expects loads of facilities but the way some are being run makes you think they really dont want your buisness and like Balfour Beatty at Blackpool must be looking at the land for other uses
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Southend: In the mass turbo-prop days SEN was very successful, it hasn't had a runway suitable for the B737/A320 jet age but, now, it has every chance of being a reasonable success.
Oxford: A flying club trying to make it as an airport but without a decent length of runway to do so.
Carlisle: This is an airport? The last airline scheduled service I recall to/from it was back in the 80's and Euroair's LHR-Carlisle-Dundee service ..... and that wasn't a roaring success!
Coventry: 15 minutes down a dual carriageway from BHX, what chance does it really have for an airline operation?
Bournemouth: Hurn has been around a lot longer than you have back beyond the days when BOAC operated their worldwide services from Hurn!
Norwich: How can this be marginal, it is the only operating airport in Norfolk and Suffolk, OK the A11 down to STN has improved over the years but who want to fly with a LCC out of STN!
Lydd: Besides 'puddle jumpers' across the channel this is not, I believe, an 'airline operations' airport.
Manston: Great for crew training, maintenance and some holiday charters or similar but too convenient to LGW to really make it and for many a year.
Gloucester: This is an 'airline operations' airport? Perhaps but only with a stretch of the imagination!
DTV/BLK/DSA: No comment.
Plymouth: A landing strip on top of a hill, next!
Oxford: A flying club trying to make it as an airport but without a decent length of runway to do so.
Carlisle: This is an airport? The last airline scheduled service I recall to/from it was back in the 80's and Euroair's LHR-Carlisle-Dundee service ..... and that wasn't a roaring success!
Coventry: 15 minutes down a dual carriageway from BHX, what chance does it really have for an airline operation?
Bournemouth: Hurn has been around a lot longer than you have back beyond the days when BOAC operated their worldwide services from Hurn!
Norwich: How can this be marginal, it is the only operating airport in Norfolk and Suffolk, OK the A11 down to STN has improved over the years but who want to fly with a LCC out of STN!
Lydd: Besides 'puddle jumpers' across the channel this is not, I believe, an 'airline operations' airport.
Manston: Great for crew training, maintenance and some holiday charters or similar but too convenient to LGW to really make it and for many a year.
Gloucester: This is an 'airline operations' airport? Perhaps but only with a stretch of the imagination!
DTV/BLK/DSA: No comment.
Plymouth: A landing strip on top of a hill, next!
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I think Phileas has got it just about right.
My recent personal experience is of Norwich (because I work there).
It has suffered tremendously firstly because, after the owners investing £ms in various facilities and perhaps being "rather optomistic" about potential routes and pitching into markets we couldn't possibly compete with, along came the recession, then when things looked as though they were getting back on track, along came the ash clouds which hit them for more money than you could ever imagine.
The former, to a certain extent, could have been predicted but never the effect of the latter.
However, despite the fact that sheduled and charter traffic is nothing like it used to be, things are slowly getting better and helicopter traffic (North Sea) is doing very well and will get even better when a new operator moves in in May 2011.
New airport management has lead to a more pragmatic approach and there is significant private investment in new hangarage and FBO facilities leading to new customers.
I've worked in aviation for over 30 years and I've always found that usually the first thing to suffer in a recession is aviation, it's also the first to emerge from it, but failure to learn is the one thing that really will screw you.
My recent personal experience is of Norwich (because I work there).
It has suffered tremendously firstly because, after the owners investing £ms in various facilities and perhaps being "rather optomistic" about potential routes and pitching into markets we couldn't possibly compete with, along came the recession, then when things looked as though they were getting back on track, along came the ash clouds which hit them for more money than you could ever imagine.
The former, to a certain extent, could have been predicted but never the effect of the latter.
However, despite the fact that sheduled and charter traffic is nothing like it used to be, things are slowly getting better and helicopter traffic (North Sea) is doing very well and will get even better when a new operator moves in in May 2011.
New airport management has lead to a more pragmatic approach and there is significant private investment in new hangarage and FBO facilities leading to new customers.
I've worked in aviation for over 30 years and I've always found that usually the first thing to suffer in a recession is aviation, it's also the first to emerge from it, but failure to learn is the one thing that really will screw you.
What about those 'marginal' airports you mention whose revenue does not solely rely on filling 737's to Alicante? I think thats easily (sometimes conveniently?) brushed over when talking about small regional airports.
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Air traffic levels around the London area last Sunday plunged massively with the onset of the winter timetables.
Bournemouth had one passenger flight today as an example (not picking on EGHH).
With the recent APD increase and the imminent VAT 2.5% increase, passenger numbers will take until 2014 (NATS figures) to return to 2007/08 levels.
Airlines will fly the routes that make them money.
Bournemouth had one passenger flight today as an example (not picking on EGHH).
With the recent APD increase and the imminent VAT 2.5% increase, passenger numbers will take until 2014 (NATS figures) to return to 2007/08 levels.
Airlines will fly the routes that make them money.
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Biggin Hill has been operating as an airport for circa 36 years, has the facilities to cope with B737/A320's etc. but with no regular airline traffic ..... and surviving for 36 years like that!
And it's more of an 'airport' than some of those 'airfields' that LGS6753 lists.
And it's more of an 'airport' than some of those 'airfields' that LGS6753 lists.
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BOH has suffered terribly this winter. FR pulling out for 3 months. BMI baby pulling its Jersey route. Flybe pulling its Manchetser route. Palmair handing back their aircraft. Thomson only regular operator through winter.
BOH suffers by being too close to SOU. If one or other did not exist a single very strong regional airport would exist. SOU is hampered by lack of space and short runway. BOH by SOU and poor road/rail links.
BOH will recover when economy picks up. Even in February this year flew to EDI with FR with virtually 100% load factor on a 180- seater aircraft. So demand is there.
BOH suffers by being too close to SOU. If one or other did not exist a single very strong regional airport would exist. SOU is hampered by lack of space and short runway. BOH by SOU and poor road/rail links.
BOH will recover when economy picks up. Even in February this year flew to EDI with FR with virtually 100% load factor on a 180- seater aircraft. So demand is there.
I Guess there are many more airports that could be added to the list. How much money was Dundee loosing? £2m? Now the main LCY route has dropped from 4 rotaitions to 3 and shortly to 2. The problem I see is the deals that are being offered by airports dont cover the future costs of replacing ILS systems etc
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Biggin Hill has been operating as an airport for circa 36 years, has the facilities to cope with B737/A320's etc. but with no regular airline traffic ..... and surviving for 36 years like that!
And it's more of an 'airport' than some of those 'airfields' that LGS6753 lists.
And it's more of an 'airport' than some of those 'airfields' that LGS6753 lists.
As for who's going to pay for all these airports, well it's not an ideal world and so it's another subject for discussion!
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Biggin Hill actually has a court injunction against it whereas it cannot allow tickets to be bought/sold for flights to/from, i.e. no scheduled or charter commercial flights, not sure if that rules out diversions, the likes of Euroair and Brymon used it in the old days, and it continues to survive.
But to suggest that the likes of Carlisle, Staverton and Oxford are airports rather than airfields, well really!
But to suggest that the likes of Carlisle, Staverton and Oxford are airports rather than airfields, well really!
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Phileas
Manx2 has been operating 19-seater schedules to the Isle of Man and Jersey (Summer) quite successfully from Staverton (20 000pa) for the last 3 years. Aer Arann put an ATR72 in there yesterday for racing at Cheltenham, having run a week's scheduled service from DUB during the March festival.
They're also just about to start a runway safety project that removes obstacles at both ends of the runway, increases the RESA provision and declared distances, and installs ILS on 27.
There are about a dozen corporate jets based there, which, combined with the 70 000+ GA movements are the bulk of the business, but the pax do form a small niche.
Manx2 has been operating 19-seater schedules to the Isle of Man and Jersey (Summer) quite successfully from Staverton (20 000pa) for the last 3 years. Aer Arann put an ATR72 in there yesterday for racing at Cheltenham, having run a week's scheduled service from DUB during the March festival.
They're also just about to start a runway safety project that removes obstacles at both ends of the runway, increases the RESA provision and declared distances, and installs ILS on 27.
There are about a dozen corporate jets based there, which, combined with the 70 000+ GA movements are the bulk of the business, but the pax do form a small niche.
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matspart,
I recall, back in the 70's, DC3's operating Stavertom/Channel Island route(s), Lydd has a service, I believe, to Le Touquet, a grass airfield at St. Just has a route to Scilly Isles, Pembrey has/had Channel Island route(s), whilst these may call themselves airports realistically they are airfields
I recall, back in the 70's, DC3's operating Stavertom/Channel Island route(s), Lydd has a service, I believe, to Le Touquet, a grass airfield at St. Just has a route to Scilly Isles, Pembrey has/had Channel Island route(s), whilst these may call themselves airports realistically they are airfields
I agree that there are probably too many airports chasing scheduled passenger traffic in much of the UK. However, it's quite difficult to decide which airports are surplus to requirements, particularly for the future, given the changing nature of both the airline industry and the demographics of the UK.
In 1994, Liverpool had a total of 439,279 passengers, while Durham Tees Valley had 356,380 passengers.
In 2009, Liverpool had a total of 4,879,468 passengers while Durham Tees Valley had 288,298 passengers.
It should be remembered that in the 1980s and early 1990s, that both Liverpool and Teesside had a big population base and considerable economic problems. How would a planner in 1994 known what would happen 15 years later ?
If airport management can keep going financially, who are we to say they should close ?
In 1994, Liverpool had a total of 439,279 passengers, while Durham Tees Valley had 356,380 passengers.
In 2009, Liverpool had a total of 4,879,468 passengers while Durham Tees Valley had 288,298 passengers.
It should be remembered that in the 1980s and early 1990s, that both Liverpool and Teesside had a big population base and considerable economic problems. How would a planner in 1994 known what would happen 15 years later ?
If airport management can keep going financially, who are we to say they should close ?
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BOH has suffered terribly this winter. FR pulling out for 3 months. BMI baby pulling its Jersey route. Flybe pulling its Manchetser route. Palmair handing back their aircraft. Thomson only regular operator through winter.