MANCHESTER - 8
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Since I was so successful with my previous posts - I try one more. This time I will only concentrate om MAN and the international scheduled flight. The tables below are based on the provisional international air passenger traffic May 2011 report from UK CAA. There is a difference between what MAN has reported and UK CAA has reported of 4,345 passengers. I have sorted the different countries after the biggest growth in the number of passengers.
The biggest growth has clearly been to European destinations and almost no growth on Trans Atlantic flights (the small growth is to Canada - US has even a small decline). The two US destinations with the most decline were Orlando (-17.5%) and Philadelphia (-10.9%). With that it is crystal clear which airlines have been effected.
I've also looked in to the passenger load for Emirates, and dependent on if they use high or low density aircraft the combined load is between 66.5% and 74.6%. I suspect Emirates has used a mix and the passenger load will therefore be somewhere between the two percentages I wrote. If EK21/22 had been discontinued (usually flown with the A332), EK17/18 and EK19/20 would combined had a passenger load between 86.1% and 95.4%.
A bit about the ash closures in May 2010. The last day of ash closures in Europe in 2010 was on 17 May. On 16th I was supposed to fly home to Norway via Amsterdam from Humberside (easy to guess the airline I suppose). Humberside was closed due ash, as was MAN and the majority of other British airports. I ended up driving all the way down to Ashford to catch the next day early bureaucrat Eurostar to Brussels and fly home from there via Copenhagen to Oslo. An expensive experience since only business tickets were available.
The biggest growth has clearly been to European destinations and almost no growth on Trans Atlantic flights (the small growth is to Canada - US has even a small decline). The two US destinations with the most decline were Orlando (-17.5%) and Philadelphia (-10.9%). With that it is crystal clear which airlines have been effected.
I've also looked in to the passenger load for Emirates, and dependent on if they use high or low density aircraft the combined load is between 66.5% and 74.6%. I suspect Emirates has used a mix and the passenger load will therefore be somewhere between the two percentages I wrote. If EK21/22 had been discontinued (usually flown with the A332), EK17/18 and EK19/20 would combined had a passenger load between 86.1% and 95.4%.
A bit about the ash closures in May 2010. The last day of ash closures in Europe in 2010 was on 17 May. On 16th I was supposed to fly home to Norway via Amsterdam from Humberside (easy to guess the airline I suppose). Humberside was closed due ash, as was MAN and the majority of other British airports. I ended up driving all the way down to Ashford to catch the next day early bureaucrat Eurostar to Brussels and fly home from there via Copenhagen to Oslo. An expensive experience since only business tickets were available.
Certainly not implying anything. The majority of passengers of all mainly leisure airlines could not give two hoots which terminal they fly from.
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Merging T1 & T3
As the MD states that the plan (within 10 years) is now to merge T1 & t3 back into one larger terminal I wonder if this will give them the short term opportunity to finally address Pier B with less disruption.
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mybrico:
Errrr so and your point is?
Errrr so and your point is?
Let me start with the most obvious then - the really large plus for the Netherlands. With only one airport served in that country, Amsterdam (AMS), it's easy to indentify the two carriers that fly to this country - easyJet and KLM. Next question may well be: Which of the carriers has added capacity since May last year? Now you get closer to the answer if it is the coffeeshops in Amsterdam that is of interest or flying through the KLM hub to destinations around the world. If it shows signs of the latter, this can also explain why the number of passengers goes down on the domestic destinations Heathrow and Gatwick.
Spain and Cyprus is very obvious - sun and no unrest like in Egypt or Greece.
Now you can continue with the country on the third spot, Germany. Was it Lufthansa or the other carriers that took the largest piece of growth cake? The UK CAA reports gives a lot of information all the way down to destination level. And if you look at this level you know it is not Frankfurt and Munich that grew most, but Dusseldorf and Hamburg. Both airports served by Lufthansa, and both can be charaterized as mini hubs for that airline. Both airports are also spotter friendly (I suspect important for some of you here) with visitor terraces for that type of activity. Or is it respectively flybe at DUS and easyJet at HAM that took the main share of the growth?
One thing is for certain, there is a significant change in where the passengers want to fly and don't want to fly on international scheduled flight from MAN.
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easyflyer83
Totally agree with everything you say but that is preference. My point was that I have never heard of anyone who will not book a potential holiday or holiday flight soley because the airline flies from a particular terminal. I would even go as far as saying that 95% of passengers have no idea which terminal they will fly from at the time of booking.
Pilot of the Airwaves
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sorry move the newcomers about not the scheduled long time users
GB airways, who easyJet took over, was founded in 1931, whereas the infant Jersey European airlines was only formed in 1979. If you dig back further into these airline's pasts, you may find it interesting to find just who is the newcomer.
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Sorry to split hairs learjet 50 , but easyJet was formed in 1995, whereas the Flybe name has only been around since 2002 and in it's former guise as British European since 2000.
GB airways, who easyJet took over, was founded in 1931, whereas the infant Jersey European airlines was only formed in 1979. If you dig back further into these airline's pasts, you may find it interesting to find just who is the newcomer.
GB airways, who easyJet took over, was founded in 1931, whereas the infant Jersey European airlines was only formed in 1979. If you dig back further into these airline's pasts, you may find it interesting to find just who is the newcomer.
As far as Flybe vs Easyjet operation from MAN is concerned, Easyjet is very much the newcomer.
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Commercially there are problems moving flybe to T1 as there will be a redevelopment cost in adapting the flow for domestic traffic. As easyJet don't fly domestic out of MAN they are a better candidate for the move, added to the fact the mix of destinations and equipment is similar to what T1 already handles a lot of.
Mind you it would not be impossible to adapt the B Pier for more domestics as they already have a split with some of the gates being served from T3 with 02B / C / D / E already set up. flybe at T3 is for the most part a waste of an airbridge.
As said above there seems to be a good case for combining T1 and T3 into an expanded T1. The need for an exclusive BA facility is not what it once was. Worked at Heathrow with T1 and T2, would work even better at MAN.
Mind you it would not be impossible to adapt the B Pier for more domestics as they already have a split with some of the gates being served from T3 with 02B / C / D / E already set up. flybe at T3 is for the most part a waste of an airbridge.
As said above there seems to be a good case for combining T1 and T3 into an expanded T1. The need for an exclusive BA facility is not what it once was. Worked at Heathrow with T1 and T2, would work even better at MAN.
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 23rd Jun 2011 at 12:02.
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The T3 set for Flybe really goes back to BA days when it was built for them operating
B737 etc then of course it went down hill with the EMB-145 which could not use airbridges then the take over of all BA non London operation by Flybe which
does not operate any aircraft except EMB-195 that can use the bridges so the
bridges are under used.
Ian B
B737 etc then of course it went down hill with the EMB-145 which could not use airbridges then the take over of all BA non London operation by Flybe which
does not operate any aircraft except EMB-195 that can use the bridges so the
bridges are under used.
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LN-KGL
You are far too Anal for most of the spotters on here....
There is a difference between the 'feel good' factor and the
actual numbers game - we get it - do you ?
MM
You are far too Anal for most of the spotters on here....
There is a difference between the 'feel good' factor and the
actual numbers game - we get it - do you ?
MM
Last edited by mickyman; 23rd Jun 2011 at 15:11.
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Plus there was still ash disruption affecting northern airports intermittently until 16May...not really a like-for-like comparison and not exactly a set of statistics that you can draw any meaningful conclusions from....
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Hmmm ... I would have to respectfully disagree with that. I can draw very meaningful conclusions from stats such as Egypt traffic down by 80.2% (notwithstanding the ash disruption). That table nicely demonstrates the redistribution of the inclusive tour market following the 'Arab Spring' etc. And the fact that certain markets have been devastated ... a point discussed at length on here some time ago when a poster forecast a bumper summer for MAN based only upon changes in the scheduled sector of the market.
I consider the data posted by LN-KGL to be quite illuminating and thank him for taking the trouble to post it.
I consider the data posted by LN-KGL to be quite illuminating and thank him for taking the trouble to post it.
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Shed, don't disagree with your Arab spring point affecting Egypt but when you think about ash negatively affecting last years stats and the extended holiday period this year skewing this years stats it makes for some fairly meaningless comparisons generally.
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Shed-on-a-Pole, you have to remember the passenger numbers in the table above are for scheduled flights only, not charter flights. The changes in number of charter flight passengers differs from scheduled (may be it takes longer to react to changes in that type of business?). Here are the results for the two North African countries with unrest
Tunisia: -84.3% = -8,414 passengers
Egypt: -21.4% = -7,634 passengers
Greece has also had some unrest the last months due to their poor economic outlook
Greece: -7.0% = -6,497 passengers
Tunisia: -84.3% = -8,414 passengers
Egypt: -21.4% = -7,634 passengers
Greece has also had some unrest the last months due to their poor economic outlook
Greece: -7.0% = -6,497 passengers
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"And if you look at this level you know it is not Frankfurt and Munich that grew most, but Dusseldorf and Hamburg. Both airports served by Lufthansa, and both can be charaterized as mini hubs for that airline. Both airports are also spotter friendly (I suspect important for some of you here) with visitor terraces for that type of activity."
Sorry but I have to be even more anal here!Firstly, I don't think either DUS or HAM are taking transfer pax in the same way that FRA and, to a lesser extent MUC do. I think virtually all of this traffic will be o&d, whether with LH or not. DUS does of course offer plenty of onward options by rail, and is effectively a 'Cologne North', 'Dortmund West' etc much more so than NRN is a Dusseldorf NW!
Secondly, are you seriously suggesting people fly to either of these cities to hang around on the viewing terrace? I will admit to having visited DUS for such a purpose on the way between AMS & FRA by train, but I have always had an interest in transport architecture. On any one flight I would usually expect to place myself firmly in a minority of 1, except on the rare occassion that I shared a LTN-SXF sector with two colleagues!
If you are suggesting that people fly to Germany for genuine geek appeal, then fair enough, but they will usually sail through the airports without much of a pause, even if on the whole, German airports are of a much higher standard than our own.
Of course, the powers that be @MAN should bear this in mind when they are planning their 'airport city'. Architects basically design swanky features to impress politicians and other architects. For everyone else, they build shopping malls.