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MANCHESTER - 8

Old 23rd Feb 2011, 19:49
  #1621 (permalink)  
 
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Bloody hell, Shed must be Cameron in disguise.
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Old 23rd Feb 2011, 19:54
  #1622 (permalink)  
 
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i wont bother watching the news now, after reading all that...lol
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Old 23rd Feb 2011, 20:25
  #1623 (permalink)  
 
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Shed - I don't post often on anything, but I don't think anyone could have wrote that better.

The Middle East is a melting pot that is on the brink of a boil that will spill over and scald us all.

Best case scenario is aviation in the region will suffer.

Worst case scenario, the last thing we will be worrying about is aviation.
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Old 23rd Feb 2011, 20:55
  #1624 (permalink)  
 
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Worst case scenario, the last thing we will be worrying about is aviation.
For some of the Middle East - yes; for others not.

Fund Rankings | Sovereign Wealth Fund Institute

Look at the major players - most countries that don't even know what 'democracy' means.

Oil is a major player - but there are other commodities in there too and these funds are now investing in other areas to, as people have said, dversify their product.

I doubt we'll see UAE/China's bubble burst. Others are a different story...
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Old 23rd Feb 2011, 21:04
  #1625 (permalink)  
 
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The Middle East is a melting pot that is on the brink of a boil that will spill over and scald us all.

Best case scenario is aviation in the region will suffer.

Worst case scenario, the last thing we will be worrying about is aviation.


well at least "Skating On Ice" is still on !
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Old 23rd Feb 2011, 21:44
  #1626 (permalink)  
 
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I am sorry MUFC, Shed's post outlined the issues well in the Middle East, however the issues that face China over the next few years should be equally of concern and not dismissed lightly.
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Old 23rd Feb 2011, 21:56
  #1627 (permalink)  
PQC
 
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Talking Indeed, East is East...but West is also West!

In my view, QR twice daily is fab news for MAN, This, added to the already advertised 10X weekly by EY plus the EK and Singapore flights prove that there is a long-haul market from N England that isn't / doesn't want to route from LHR.

This, added to the onward connections via FRA, AMS, ZRH, CDG etc exposes BA's misguided view that all long haul from the UK has to go from LHR / LGW.

Can they not see that their current policy is just alienating the majority of travellers North of Birmingham?

But, as I suspect, maybe they and BAA just don't care.

Myopic if you ask me, but hey, what do I know?

Across the pond from MAN is different. Again, you get the feeling that if MAN can support long haul to the east, then it should be able to do to the west to places like Boston, Vancouver, Washington, Montreal, Dallas etc.

But these destinations are a subject to a great deal more - dare I say it? - "regulation" than the non Trans Altlantic routes.

It's just good to know that yet again - and despite the cabal against it - MAN continues to grow its business.
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Old 23rd Feb 2011, 22:11
  #1628 (permalink)  
 
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I am sorry MUFC, Shed's post outlined the issues well in the Middle East, however the issues that face China over the next few years should be equally of concern and not dismissed lightly.
What do you mean? I completely agree with Shed. The Arab World crisis is going to cause serious problems but I'm on about economic strategy in two countries: UAE and China. If there was to be an 'uprising' or whatever in either of these two states, especially in UAE they own a significant amount of the world's markets; whether it be oil, corn, buildings, land etc etc. This will still be owned by the state or whatever that may be. Many of those billions are invested in the west where as Shed rightly says, suffers less from food price increases.

Sovereign funds do fail as we have seen - but not those worth in the '000s of billions. Just like banks - they're too big to fail.

In my view, QR twice daily is fab news for MAN, This, added to the already advertised 10X weekly by EY plus the EK and Singapore flights prove that there is a long-haul market from N England that isn't / doesn't want to route from LHR.

This, added to the onward connections via FRA, AMS, ZRH, CDG etc exposes BA's misguided view that all long haul from the UK has to go from LHR / LGW.
Where the hell does BA and LHR come into this?! I'd consider transferring at LHR similar to that of CDG; AMS or FRA - from MAN it is little different!

Why don't we just put LHR in that category of European megaports. Why do we have to single LHR out? It's not spite is it?
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Old 23rd Feb 2011, 22:12
  #1629 (permalink)  
 
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MAN-LDY

Rumours are really rife not just on the forum but in general here in Derry about a BE announcement next week regarding LDY-MAN. Has anyone heard anything at the Manchester end?
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Old 24th Feb 2011, 07:27
  #1630 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry to veer away from the consensus re SHED's post, but all his facts and eloquence then turn into opinion and speculation. There is much contradictory evidence to the effects of QE and a push to democracy could (and should) increase air travel from these regions. The removal of sanctions and trade restrictions to Libya, Iran and so on would benefit aviation for a start. I think SHED admits it is a gloomy outlook he presents and although very well argued, not necessarily the path that will emerge.
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Old 24th Feb 2011, 08:09
  #1631 (permalink)  
 
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Shed - have you considered a role as an economist

Well said Shed. Now re post this on every other airport thread substuting the name of the aerodrome as appropriate - An icy blast of reality injected into PPRuNe - The politico's should be reading this. Turtle yes, but all judgement is subjective in part. Its the old question ? -Is air travel an indicator of ecomomic activity or does it in its self create ecomomic activity. - Hence MAN's success.

Excellent posting

CAT III

Last edited by Guest 112233; 24th Feb 2011 at 08:17. Reason: Follow on
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Old 24th Feb 2011, 13:51
  #1632 (permalink)  
 
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MAN vs.LHR long haul

Recent developments prove the market demand at MAN for long-haul east and west. Yet MAN still leaks a good deal of market-share, and price is a factor which skews the market. We often hear about MAN long-haul traffic not generating enough revenues, yet the paradox is that long-haul ex-MAN is often expensive to book compared to high-revenue LHR.
Example: A colleague of mine has just booked a trip to Vietnam. Tried to get on SQ ex-MAN, no seats available. EK and EY wanted c.1500 ex-MAN, and so she ended up on Thai out of LHR for less than 1000. That sort of saving blows all the convenience / loyality to local airport sentiments out of the water. So-called 'low revenue' MAN is top-drawer for the punter. I'm sure the airline economists amongst PPRUNErs will explain.
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Old 24th Feb 2011, 14:07
  #1633 (permalink)  
 
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Example: A colleague of mine has just booked a trip to Vietnam. Tried to get on SQ ex-MAN, no seats available. EK and EY wanted c.1500 ex-MAN, and so she ended up on Thai out of LHR for less than 1000. That sort of saving blows all the convenience / loyality to local airport sentiments out of the water. So-called 'low revenue' MAN is top-drawer for the punter. I'm sure the airline economists amongst PPRUNErs will explain.
A perfect example of supply and demand. LHR has dozens of routes going east via dozens of hubs or non-stop. Hence far more supply. It's also the reason why the fares are often similar or less from LHR - more supply from more carriers = more competition = more passenger friendly fares.

Often EK will have higher fares from MAN than LHR.
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Old 24th Feb 2011, 14:16
  #1634 (permalink)  
 
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Across the pond from MAN is different. Again, you get the feeling that if MAN can support long haul to the east, then it should be able to do to the west to places like Boston, Vancouver, Washington, Montreal, Dallas etc.
You are quite right. It is different. The east bound routes are all to massive airline hubs, where traffic gets redistributed to points North, South, East (and a little west). It is much easier to make this kind of network sustainable and that is what we see to the West as well, with the American carriers. I don't believe there would be enough demand for those cities alone to justify daily service on a 'legacy' carrier. The only places with significant service that are not hubs are places with massive leisure demand, like Las Vegas and Orlando.
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Old 24th Feb 2011, 14:37
  #1635 (permalink)  
 
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Looking to west, I can understand the lack of Vancouver, San Fran & LAX, but I am surprised that Boston has not been re-intoduced as it's a relatively short t/a sector.
With all the woes at Aer Lingus, I am surprised that they don't promote more,their BOS, IAD services via DUB or even originate some from here.
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Old 24th Feb 2011, 14:45
  #1636 (permalink)  
 
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With all the woes at Aer Lingus, I am surprised that they don't promote more,their BOS, IAD services via DUB or even originate some from here.
IAD was dropped from Dublin due EI problems
BOS is doing quiet well now. EI have added 3 direct weekly flights instead of going via SNN.
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Old 24th Feb 2011, 15:59
  #1637 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MUFC_fan View Post
A perfect example of supply and demand. LHR has dozens of routes going east via dozens of hubs or non-stop. Hence far more supply. It's also the reason why the fares are often similar or less from LHR - more supply from more carriers = more competition = more passenger friendly fares.

Often EK will have higher fares from MAN than LHR.
True to a degree, but a factor is also that with less capacity from MAN (compared to LHR) the airlines don't have to offer such cheap fares to get decent loads. It will be interesting to see if the picture changes with the planned capacity increases by QR/EY, and the rumoured one from EK.
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Old 24th Feb 2011, 17:57
  #1638 (permalink)  
 
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MAN revenues

Back to the topic of ticket prices / revenues. The huge capacity and competition at LHR as compared to MAN doesn't explain why MAN long-hauls have sometimes been cited as poor earners (BA / bmi used this reason to pull routes, as have others) when passengers seem to be paying high prices for tickets as compared to LHR, where revenues and yields are said to be good. Is it because LHR gets more expensive bums on seats at the front end who subsidise the back?
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Old 24th Feb 2011, 21:21
  #1639 (permalink)  
 
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BE commence Derry LDY service from 19th May.

Ops 1--4567

Dep MAN 11.20 Arr LDY 12.25
Dep LDY 12.50 Arr MAN 13.55

Presumably a DH8 if it's MAN based.
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Old 25th Feb 2011, 06:42
  #1640 (permalink)  
 
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Back to the topic of ticket prices / revenues. The huge capacity and competition at LHR as compared to MAN doesn't explain why MAN long-hauls have sometimes been cited as poor earners (BA / bmi used this reason to pull routes, as have others) when passengers seem to be paying high prices for tickets as compared to LHR, where revenues and yields are said to be good. Is it because LHR gets more expensive bums on seats at the front end who subsidise the back?

I believe logistics issues/costs of having one or two L/H aircraft, such in terms of supplying crew (in BA's case with that B767 they used for JFK) at MAN and away from the bulk of the airline fleet doesn't help.
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