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Airlines set to make millions from a380 at full pax capacity

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Airlines set to make millions from a380 at full pax capacity

Old 20th Nov 2009, 01:46
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Airlines set to make millions from a380 at full pax capacity

With the numbers being quoted, over its fuel efficiency of 2litres of fuel burned per pax per 100km when an airline has the a380 in the maximum capacity layout of 840 passengers,Will they be set to make millions out of cheap long haul travel based on the same business model as Ryanair ?
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Old 20th Nov 2009, 02:11
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Only one small hickupp...

If it flies not full, it will cost them dearly!
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Old 20th Nov 2009, 03:19
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Gee wiz Beaver, that sounds Swell!!

The A380 will only have sucess seasonally in select markets. No Major money maker, just a phaloc symbol.

The 74-8 will slide in to the market, the family has years of experience as a failure during market down turns. But it is more subtle choice for the wise if 4 engines and a large floorplan is your desire.

Granted I hate to see the triple and quadruple engine aircraft see a market challenge to Twin long haul aircraft, It is the future.

I think the Freight side of the market has a place for 4 engine aircraft and will for many years, mass bulk and gross weight is a larger cargo market. The 777 has recently evolved to make a better freighter than the now non production MD-11.

Future markets that may become more demanding of bulk and weight will keep the 4 engine alive far after they are replaced by future 2 engine aircraft. But as is shown in recent history, holding a large fleet of 4 engine freighters is a large liability. I think the first A380f's will be ex-pax birds, used and abused.
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Old 20th Nov 2009, 03:37
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greyb33: "Airlines set to make millions from a380 at full pax capacity"
Only if the price is right, because if everybody only pays $9.95 for their ticket, you can fly full all day and lose money.

And what's so magical about the A380? Why can't airlines "make millions" if flying at theoretical 100% load factor with their conventional widebodies being operated right now. . . ? There are two other elements besides load factor, called: price competition and excess capacity.
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Old 20th Nov 2009, 04:03
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Only if the price is right, because if everybody only pays $9.95 for their ticket, you can fly full all day and lose money

Anybody

Now I am curious. What would be about the break even point in ticket cost for a full coach load in a A380 on a 10 hour flight?
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Old 20th Nov 2009, 04:52
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A buck 2.99?
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Old 20th Nov 2009, 06:00
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Yes the A380 is the airplane which guarantees untold millions for any airline, that is why they are selling so well Doesn't quite explain why Air France has so many 777s though. Is that just bad management?
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Old 20th Nov 2009, 09:07
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Doesn't quite explain why Air France has so many 777s though. Is that just bad management?
No, because the A380 was not available until now. But if you look at Air France's plans for their early A380 operations on nearly every route a single A380 rotation replaces two 777 rotations. That is where the A380 makes economic sense.
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Old 20th Nov 2009, 10:06
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Airline economics for dummies

Airline economics is the simplest thing. There are only four primary variables:
Traffic – revenue tonne-km
Capacity – available tonne-km
Revenue
Expenses

There are four secondary variables, which depend on the above:
Load factor – traffic divided by capacity
Yield – revenue divided by traffic
Unit cost – expenses divided by capacity
Operating ratio (= profitability) – revenue divided by expenses

And one tertiary variable:
Breakeven load factor – either unit cost divided by yield or Op ratio divided by load factor (it’s the same thing).

In the current climate of depressed premium travel (= depressed overall yields), breakeven on longhaul is probably at 80% unless you’re a Middle Eastern carrier. A three-class A380 will have slightly lower unit costs than a 747/777/A340 due to economies of scale. A one-class A380 would have much lower unit costs, so if you could replicate today’s yields, the breakeven would be much lower, and if you could fill it 100% full, you would make a packet.

There are two ‘ifs’ in the statement above.
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Old 20th Nov 2009, 10:10
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Air Austral A380

Yesterday above company "firmed" its order for 2 A389 for delivery in 2013-2014 at the cost of 655M EUR.
Currently their competition flies 744 with 550 pax to RUN and MRU at about 350 EUR return from TLS, ORY, etc.
I guess with 840 pax they could make the cost fall to about 250 EUR for the 10h 30min trip.
And they plan to use it "extensively on their high density Paris route"
Guess Air Mauritius will have to fold in 3 years... or fly the 343 in full bizz cofiguration...
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Old 20th Nov 2009, 10:24
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A380 & the Hajj

Just had a horrible thought. A few years down the pike, when the 380's getting a bit tired and sold on, how many pilgrims could 'they' fit in? No, second thoughts, don't even want to think about it.
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Old 20th Nov 2009, 10:36
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the A380 makes economic sense
It does to the airlines, who are only buying them in sufficient numbers to fill the niche market they are best suited, (but not designed for), but it doesn't make any economic sense to Airbus who now need to sell at least 450 - 500 just to break even, (Industry figures, not mine).
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Old 20th Nov 2009, 10:59
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They will! I remember it was inconceivable the 747 would sell 1600! The 747 is old hat- nobody will want a 50 year old design in a few years. The stretched A380 will be unmatchable on high density routes! Look at SIA's operation. UK-Far East-Australia. Out of this recession, the world will need a BIG people mover.
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Old 20th Nov 2009, 11:44
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Most airlines are not even filling their 747s at the moment so the A380 will only be a success in certain markets (like Singapore where the aviation market has grown exponentially). The A380 is the right aircraft in 10 or 15 years time when the industry will have grown considerably but it is not the correct aircraft for the present times - too big, too many unfilled seats.

The last I heard, the only airline benefiting from the A380 is Singapore Airlines while Qantas and Emirates are making losses on the A380s. Boeing got it perfect for the current market with the 787 and it shows in their order book.

BA 77.

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Old 20th Nov 2009, 12:02
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it's just funny: the Airbus website talks about 90 tons of payload. Would make sense with 840 passengers, 85kgs each and 13kgs of baggage = 82.3 tons. The rest in freight.
However the actual 380ies flying have a payload of between 64 and 70 tons only! How do you want to fit in so many passengers then?
The bird seems too heavy in DOW. I wonder how you can make millions with a too-heavy = "super".
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Old 20th Nov 2009, 12:25
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Most airlines are not even filling their 747s at the moment so the A380 will only be a success in certain markets (like Singapore where the aviation market has grown exponentially). The A380 is the right aircraft in 10 or 15 years time when the industry will have grown considerably but it is not the correct aircraft for the present times - too big, too many unfilled seats.
According to the article in a recent Flight ALL current A380 operators are reporting very high load factors on their A380 services.
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Old 20th Nov 2009, 12:30
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Oh, thanks for the information. It's just the last I heard (which was a couple of months ago mind you) was that the A380's were really just lean-mean loss-making machines which were turning into huge white-elephants.

Thanks for the more recent information, BA 77.
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Old 20th Nov 2009, 13:17
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Boeing got it perfect for the current market with the 787 and it shows in their order book.
Only the marketing department got it perfect with the 7 late7. The delivery book shows otherwise.
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Old 20th Nov 2009, 13:54
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Yeah it has been a bit (cough cough) delayed but with such a revolutionary aircraft surely that was only to be expected? I think that when it eventually flies it will be worth it because it seems like the future for everyone in the aviation industry.

BA 77.
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Old 20th Nov 2009, 14:14
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Shouldn't this belong in the Humour section ?

Airlines set to lose millions then you have a good topic, just you look at Airline management and they have Loss written on their forehead.
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