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Ryanair - 7

Old 4th Jan 2010, 12:00
  #521 (permalink)  
 
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I dont care what you call it, I would feel safer knowing everyone on my flight had a passport that has been checked rather than a blockbuster card or a fishing permit.
I'll call it pure revenue protection as well. As already pointed out BA and BMI do not normally require any form of ID for domestics. BE require ID but accept my company ID. EZY will accept driving licenses. FR are alone in insisting on a Passport of EU ID card for domestics.

EZY, BE and FR all insist the requirement for ID is on security grounds but that is complete and utter bollocks. What they are trying to avoid is people (companies in particular) buying up loads of cheap tickets months in advance on routes their staff fly frequently and then issuing the tickets to anyone to use. It also prevents the resale of tickets through auction sites such as ebay.
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Old 4th Jan 2010, 12:01
  #522 (permalink)  
 
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Does anyone have any educated opinions on where the row with the Italian authorities will end? There appears to be increasingly combatative stances taken by both parties involved, with the Italian regulator reportedly suing Ryanair for libel? Will FR pull a lot of aircraft out of Italy, will staff lose their jobs? This appears to be a LOT more then a war of words.
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Old 4th Jan 2010, 12:11
  #523 (permalink)  
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this is as well what i heard: a lot more
Time will tell but Ryanair won't give up such very good routes for a simple id problem
On bases such as BRI, CAG, TPS or BDS, half of the routes are domestics, so can't see what they'll do with their aircraft...
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Old 4th Jan 2010, 17:50
  #524 (permalink)  
 
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It is not a case of RYR 'giving up' routes but the Italians telling them to sod off, and good on em for doing it. In UK any other airline on domestics will accept official photo ID (WTF did Gozo get fishing licence and blockbuster card from?) in the form of driving licence, ID card etc, but it must have been issued by a recognised authority. Perhaps it is because RYR want to employ the lowest form of staff at the lowest wage and dont want to confuse the poor bozos.
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Old 4th Jan 2010, 19:32
  #525 (permalink)  
 
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(WTF did Gozo get fishing licence and blockbuster card from?)
The Italians deem a fishing licence as appropriate ID.

Personally, I think if it is a secure and relatively tamper proof form of photographic ID, it should be accepted on domestic flights. But whether or not an Italian fishing/hunting licence or old style ID should be accepted is debatable.

Perhaps it is because RYR want to employ the lowest form of staff at the lowest wage and dont want to confuse the poor bozos.
Just because handling agents are not the highest paid in the world, does not mean that they incapable of inspecting ID. Handling agents on the same wage manage to deal with other airlines in Italy (i.e. easyJet or Alitalia) who have accepted the rules on Italian domestic flights. These people are not 'bozos' who work for Ryanair's handling agents, in many cases they deal with other airlines applying these rules.

I suspect the real reason is not having to modify their systems. This also allows them to keep their policy of ID requirements consistent throughout the network. It's probably cheaper for them to do this.

I notice that while the routes have been cancelled from January 23rd they seem to resume again at the end of March. Perhaps FR are looking to resolve the issue by then, however, I think it's looking unlikely with ENAC even threatening to sue!
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Old 4th Jan 2010, 19:48
  #526 (permalink)  
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al446 Just who do you think you are? Coming out with abuse like that.

"Perhaps it is because RYR want to employ the lowest form of staff at the lowest wage and dont want to confuse the poor bozos".

People like you do not belong here, go:delete
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Old 4th Jan 2010, 20:12
  #527 (permalink)  
 
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I mean no insult to anyone presently employed in any capacity within aviation support nor those who may wish to pursue that, it is more a comment on RYR and how they appear to wish drive standards within aviation down to the lowest level possible in order that they can reap cost benefits. To this end I would think it feasible that they would wish to standardise across the company acceptable forms of ID to only one ie passport. This would mean that they could then insist on their handling agents taking on people of lesser calibre than presently at lower cost as they would need lesser powers of discrimination due to only needing to accept that one form of ID, no argument and no confusion. I believe RYR to be the European cancer of aviation, I am sure they have their counterparts on other continents.

I mean to offend nobody working in this capacity or with wishes to do so, it is more of a comment on how FR will try to distort the industry to its detriment.
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Old 4th Jan 2010, 20:47
  #528 (permalink)  
 
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Old Timetable...

I posted on the Aer Lingus thread info on a snapshot of an EI Timetable going back to summer 1996.

I had some details of an old Ryanair timetable that some might find interesting and what a stark contrast to today's!

Winter 1988/1989
Brussels London Luton (UQ London European B11 Mon-Fri x1)
Dublin Cardiff x1 Mon, Wed, Fri x B11
Dublin Knock MonX2, WedX1, FriX2- EMB
Dublin Liverpool mon, tue, wed, Fri&Sun x 1 B11 (EI did also operate)
Dublin London Luton 5 daily B11
Dublin Munich satX1 B11
Cork London Luton mon-fri x1 Fri x2 + Sun x1 B11
Galway London Luton mon-fri +sun ATR
Knock Birmingham Sat x1 B11
Knock London Gatwick x 1 weekly Thursday
Knock London Luton daily B11
Knock Manchester mon, wed ,fri x 1 B11
Shannon London Luton daily x 1 B11
Waterford London Luton daily x 1 ATR

So B11's ATR and Banderainte- the ATR could be EI-BYO


EI-BUD
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Old 4th Jan 2010, 21:00
  #529 (permalink)  
 
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And another....

Summer 1991 and the opening of the new Stansted
and this included business class, actually if you search on youtube you can see the advert that ran on TV of this new Business Class, you can see the B11 and STN at that time!

Dublin/Stansted x 6 daily
Dublin/Luton x2 daily
Dublin/Liverpool x3 daily
Knock/Luton x1 daily (x2 on sat)
Knock/Stansted x daily x sat Via Dublin
Cork/Luton daily
Dublin/Munich daily (sat direct, other days via STN)
Stansted/Munich daily x sat (Not sure if FR operated)
Galway/Stansted x3 daily (1 daily via Waterford)ATR
Waterford/Stansted x3 daily ATR
Kerry/Stansted daiy ATR

EI-BUD
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Old 5th Jan 2010, 15:48
  #530 (permalink)  
 
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Il 7 gennaio riunione in ENAC sulla sicurezza del trasporto aereo: strumenti e tecnologie all’indomani del fallito attentato sul volo Delta e vicenda Ryanair sull’equipollenza dei documenti di riconoscimento e identità
ENAC announced today that on Thursday, January 7th will be held the security meeting to address the security issues in the aftermath of the failed attack on the Amsterdam-Detroit flight and the possibilities of using some new tools and technologies at major Italian airports.

Another topic to be discussed is the Ryanair stand on the validity of the identity documents in accord to national legislation and the statements made by the carrier in relation to security.
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Old 5th Jan 2010, 18:51
  #531 (permalink)  
 
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Al446

I can't race the original quote, but a few years back FR did clearly state that they deliberately restricted the forms of proof of identity they would accept so as not to confuse their staff. I think this arose as an issue because the press had got hold of the fact that they had refused to accept a UK serviceman's forces ID card on a UK domestic flight. A clear case of them putting their staff's (limited by FR's definition?) ability before passenger convenience or even common sense. Or is it a revenue earner from refused boardings due to unacceptable ID being produced?

Someone needs to forcibly tell MOL that here in the UK we do not need passports to travel domestically within our country and I'm surprised that Liberty or N2ID or another similar pressure group hasn't challenged them in court.

My bottom line: FR are a bunch of **** and I would only demean my self to fly with them as a very last resort. They do not deserve patronage.
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Old 5th Jan 2010, 19:47
  #532 (permalink)  
 
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Red Barron - You underline my point very well. When I was serving in the RAF my 1250 (ID) was accepted not only as proof of who I was but also as an emergency cheque guarantee card. I would be most seriously put out if a card that would allow me access to a nuclear facility, which it did, did not allow me to fly.

I accept in present climate that photo ID on aircraft is a must but it seems to be the laziness and arrogance of RYR that drive them to try to dictate rather than compile a list of officially acceptable ID.. I doubt that it is a revenue earner.

Your final sentence echoes my thoughts exactly.
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Old 6th Jan 2010, 20:41
  #533 (permalink)  
 
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A clear case of them putting their staff's (limited by FR's definition?) ability before passenger convenience or even common sense.

I accept in present climate that photo ID on aircraft is a must but it seems to be the laziness and arrogance of RYR that drive them to try to dictate rather than compile a list of officially acceptable ID.. I doubt that it is a revenue earner.
I firmly believe that it is nothing to do with staff ability or management laziness. Remember, outside handling staff (who generally inspect ID on behalf of FR) often work with other airlines policies aswell. Taking one example, at LPL, Ryanair operates domestic flights to BHD & LDY. Servisair staff check passports at the gate, later on, passengers on the Flybe flight to IOM also have their various forms of ID inspected by Servisair. Even the same staff at times!

Basically, Ryanair want to keep the policy as simple as possible so the process is speeded up to meet turnaround times e.t.c. It also allows them to operate the cost-cutting 100% online check-in with no complications or paying for upgraded software, they ditched accepting drivers licences on UK domestic flights when they began fully using this system. And yes I realise EZY, BE, BA, BD and others can manage to operate with all different ID forms and online check-in. But hey, it's FR we are talking about, they like it to operate with the absolute lowest costs!

Personally, I'm neither pro or anti FR. But I don't find it a huge hassle to bring a passport on domestic runs, infact it's quite easy to comply with! I travel to Belfast from LPL alot. I have a choice between EZY to BFS or FR to BHD. Usually it's FR because it's the most convenient for where i'm heading..and generally considerably cheaper if it's an early booking. The service isn't brilliant on FR but neither is it on EZY, the passport thing doesn't seem to bother anyone I know.....
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Old 6th Jan 2010, 21:02
  #534 (permalink)  
 
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The service isn't brilliant on FR but neither is it on EZY, the passport thing doesn't seem to bother anyone I know.....
Ditto the above. After 40+ domestic FR sectors in the UK in 2009, I don't complain, although my passport is looking very very ragged ...
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Old 7th Jan 2010, 07:49
  #535 (permalink)  
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There is an important meeting today between the ENAC and Ryanair. If this is only an id/security issue, it should be fixed by today
If there is something behind like taxes issues, social security issue, work law respect issues etc, I think it won't be a good day for Ryanair italian passengers and cabin crews jobs
Ryanair won't give up its domestics for only an id issue, so clearly if the issue is not resolved today, there is a huge problem behind with has nothing to do with security matter and I hope ENAC will communicate on it
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Old 7th Jan 2010, 08:11
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H&S if you read the italian forum on pprune about this very topic youll find that this all started off because an Italian member of parliment was travelling with Ryanair and insisted on using her parlimentary ID. When she was refused at the gate for failing to comply with her contract with Ryanair she kicked up a fuss. Knowing the head of ENAC she promptly complained and well here we are.
Corruption who would have thought that was going on in Italy

Sorry about the grammar its from google translate, so unfortunately for you (h&s) there is no other conspiricy involved here.

Google Traduci
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Old 7th Jan 2010, 08:36
  #537 (permalink)  
 
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December traffic less than November

As always ryanair look like they are doing very well at growing traffic. What seems to be going wrong is they are not getting the profitable traffic. They carried less people in December than November. The 12% growth is poor considering that BA were possibly hit by strike. Ryanair were 81% booked but EZJ were 85.4% booked even though they often have higher fares.

The other thing they reported today is they have hedged half they fuel for 2010-11 at $720/tonne. They are paying about $620 per tonne for 2009-10. I see jet fuel will be at $1000/tonne again soon.
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Old 7th Jan 2010, 10:28
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December Pax numbers

09 - 4.90M
08 - 4.37M
+12%

Load Factor
09 - 81%
08 - 79%
+2%

12 Months rolling
2009 - 65.3M
2008 - 57.7M
+ 13.6%
Load Factor 82%
+.5%
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Old 7th Jan 2010, 10:44
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As always ryanair look like they are doing very well at growing traffic. What seems to be going wrong is they are not getting the profitable traffic.
And your data to back this up is where ?
Could you do the comparable between FR / BA / U2 and EI regarding profitable traffic........oh wait BA and EI are massive loss makers so just do a Qtr comparable on FR and U2.

They carried less people in December than November. The 12% growth is poor considering that BA were possibly hit by strike. Ryanair were 81% booked but EZJ were 85.4% booked even though they often have higher fares.
Given that BA's operations do not not hugely overlap with FR's then puzzled about why you would expect FR to benefit that much......I wouldn't have.

The other thing they reported today is they have hedged half they fuel for 2010-11 at $720/tonne. They are paying about $620 per tonne for 2009-10. I see jet fuel will be at $1000/tonne again soon.
So what you are finally saying is that they have done well again in hedging at a low level well below what their competitors are currently paying or do you feel that everyone else will get fuel miles cheaper and FR will be paying nore than everybody ?
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Old 7th Jan 2010, 11:03
  #540 (permalink)  
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EMA

I understand that EMA will be getting two extra a/c from the end of march. But im not sure if its two up from the summer (6) OR two up from the winter (5). Also BTS maybe coming back. I know we are expecting 55/70 new crew, and we require 10 extra PU.

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