DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 5
KLM DTV take 2
yes sorry fairdealfrank..not too clear for you.. i meant the kl ops.
enough business users?..surely the pax would just go/up down the road to get to ams? kl wouldnt loose the traffic and save thousands in costs?
just a thought.
enough business users?..surely the pax would just go/up down the road to get to ams? kl wouldnt loose the traffic and save thousands in costs?
just a thought.
highwideandugly, surely they would have done something about it by now if loads/yields were too thin? They tend to serve niche markets, such as the offshore oil and gas industry, and there is the chance that another operator could fill the gap should they pull out thus losing potentially high yielding passengers. It seems a sufficient number of people will pay more to use their local airport to keep the routes running. Just a thought.
Last edited by pug; 11th Mar 2012 at 17:46.
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Pug
Just a point, KL will presumably have a contract with DTV, & it is this that determines their operations at DTV.
To suggest that KL have a criteria that to withdraw would allow in competition is lost on me !
Any Loco taking on route is hardly likely to constitute relevant competition as KL make their money on feeding connecting pax into their AMS hub.
Also unsure if this has any direct relevance to oil & gas market specifically located within the Teesside area, given their operations out of DTV then premium fares are only relevant on onward connections out of AMS in any event.
Just a point, KL will presumably have a contract with DTV, & it is this that determines their operations at DTV.
To suggest that KL have a criteria that to withdraw would allow in competition is lost on me !
Any Loco taking on route is hardly likely to constitute relevant competition as KL make their money on feeding connecting pax into their AMS hub.
Also unsure if this has any direct relevance to oil & gas market specifically located within the Teesside area, given their operations out of DTV then premium fares are only relevant on onward connections out of AMS in any event.
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DTVA's KLM Amsterdam flight is always significantly more expensive compared to NCL/LBA, yet they still fill the planes without breaking a sweat.
That says it all really.
That says it all really.
To suggest that KL have a criteria that to withdraw would allow in competition is lost on me
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Thanks for the clarification highwideandugly, with you now!
AKAIK the UK and the Netherlands were one of the first countries to agree an open skies policy back in the 1980s. Over the years, this has been very beneficial to KL for 2 resaons.
(1) Because of the relative sizes of the two countries, there are far more UK regional airports for KL to feed its AMS hub with than there are Dutch regional airports for BA and BD to feed their LHR hubs;
(2) The inability to fly LHR from most regional airports.
Would imagine that KL does very well at UK regional airports and has no need to consolidate.
AKAIK the UK and the Netherlands were one of the first countries to agree an open skies policy back in the 1980s. Over the years, this has been very beneficial to KL for 2 resaons.
(1) Because of the relative sizes of the two countries, there are far more UK regional airports for KL to feed its AMS hub with than there are Dutch regional airports for BA and BD to feed their LHR hubs;
(2) The inability to fly LHR from most regional airports.
Would imagine that KL does very well at UK regional airports and has no need to consolidate.
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What is it with skyman771, highwideandugly and SWBKCB? As soon as there is any potential good news for MME they come out and knock the place! Not only that but they then manage to attack current services at the airport!
Are you all scared of a bit of competition?
I'm not saying the Ryanair rumour doen't sound ambitious but things have to start somewhere!
Are you all scared of a bit of competition?
I'm not saying the Ryanair rumour doen't sound ambitious but things have to start somewhere!
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Ryanair at MME
Ryanair did detailed research three years ago about a possible base at either MME or NCL. My understanding is that MME was ruled out quite quickly both on cost and the fact loads to possible destinations would be insufficient for a 800 series 737. NCL, airport management have acknowledged this previoulsy, was ruled out shortly after by Ryanair not on cost as they proposed a better deal for Ryanair than MME but again on the fact that loads would be too thin on the ground for a 787 800 based aircraft except that is to sunshine destinations which as we all know are well served from NCL. This is the reason why both NCL and MME were not suitable at the time as a Ryanair base.
Unless conditions have drastically improved at MME and I can not believe they have then I would be very surprised to see a Ryanair base at MME.
I would go as far as to say the opposite is the case. The recession has worsened. We now have the CONDEM government in power which with another APD hike due is possibly the most anti aviation government this country has ever had. MMEs financial situation has worsened so they are unlikely to be able to come up with the financial incentive Ryanair would demand.
The only possible scenario in which I can see a base coming to MME from Ryanair is if they are desperate to base two aircraft somewhere and have no other options available. However given that growth from Ryanair seems to now be concentrated outside the UK I cant see, unless a massive financial incentive is on the table that they would take a gamble on MME.
Unless conditions have drastically improved at MME and I can not believe they have then I would be very surprised to see a Ryanair base at MME.
I would go as far as to say the opposite is the case. The recession has worsened. We now have the CONDEM government in power which with another APD hike due is possibly the most anti aviation government this country has ever had. MMEs financial situation has worsened so they are unlikely to be able to come up with the financial incentive Ryanair would demand.
The only possible scenario in which I can see a base coming to MME from Ryanair is if they are desperate to base two aircraft somewhere and have no other options available. However given that growth from Ryanair seems to now be concentrated outside the UK I cant see, unless a massive financial incentive is on the table that they would take a gamble on MME.
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KLM and Ryanair
Firstly KLM. I've said several times that the KLM route is a profitable route for the airline. Load factors generally are around 60% with some slimmer services and some full loads...as is normal in a scheduled operation. I use this service very regularly and am in contact with KLM who tell me the service isn't going anywhere.....
Now...bullishness aside, we have to admit that if numbers start to fall and/or thoughts change within KLM (i.e. they can deploy somewhere else to make more money), then this can change quickly.
As for Ryanair...I would love the rumour to be true....even more I'd like it to work. I can't comment on whether it is true or not as this is the only place I have heard it but when I've spoken with people before they're expression has been "selling yourself to the devil". Of course when times are tough, this maybe your only option. Personally, I could see it happening...BUT, I couldn't see it being sustained as Ryanair don't often stick around for long if things aren't perfect and we don't have an history of getting things into that "perfect" category. I'm just not sure we could sustain 2 x 737-800s at profitable yields to make it long term worthwhile.....though I'd love to be proven wrong!
Now...bullishness aside, we have to admit that if numbers start to fall and/or thoughts change within KLM (i.e. they can deploy somewhere else to make more money), then this can change quickly.
As for Ryanair...I would love the rumour to be true....even more I'd like it to work. I can't comment on whether it is true or not as this is the only place I have heard it but when I've spoken with people before they're expression has been "selling yourself to the devil". Of course when times are tough, this maybe your only option. Personally, I could see it happening...BUT, I couldn't see it being sustained as Ryanair don't often stick around for long if things aren't perfect and we don't have an history of getting things into that "perfect" category. I'm just not sure we could sustain 2 x 737-800s at profitable yields to make it long term worthwhile.....though I'd love to be proven wrong!
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Our German friends are in deep discussion with the Management about widening their operation from Teesside. Management would ideally want a based aircraft and Tui want to be certain that a) the airport is still here when they come to fly their aircraft in and b) they get the same deal as everyone else at the airport in terms of operating costs.
The Tui deal would make Ryanair a non starter.
Thomas Cook are still looking at the airport and a trawl through the postcodes of their NCL passengers shows a suprisingly large number of DL and TS Postcodes.
I am hoping that whoever took the moronic decision to go with Loco's instead of tried and trusted charters is still not in post and they make the right decision.
The Tui deal would make Ryanair a non starter.
Thomas Cook are still looking at the airport and a trawl through the postcodes of their NCL passengers shows a suprisingly large number of DL and TS Postcodes.
I am hoping that whoever took the moronic decision to go with Loco's instead of tried and trusted charters is still not in post and they make the right decision.
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Durham Tees Valley Airport has appointed agency We Do to deliver its marketing activity, with Emma Ormerod taking the lead, bdaily reports. Emma, an Account Director at We Do, previously worked at the airport for 8 years, and will deliver the new strategy being developed by the Peel Group.
She said: ‘This is a challenge that I and the rest of the We Do team are looking forward to. Durham Tees Valley has been through some tough times but I firmly believe we can work with the Peel and the local team led by Airport Manager Shaun Woods to stabilise the current business and move forward to develop new opportunities.’
She said: ‘This is a challenge that I and the rest of the We Do team are looking forward to. Durham Tees Valley has been through some tough times but I firmly believe we can work with the Peel and the local team led by Airport Manager Shaun Woods to stabilise the current business and move forward to develop new opportunities.’
Looking at their website and their case studies doesn't fill you with confidence.
Caravans, Probation Trust, Psyche, Hairdressing...........
If it doesn't work it's still a useful addition to the 'look at all the things we did but still couldn't turn it around' list they'll be giving the councils in a couple of years.
Figures
Oh well the rot continues..and some of you expect us all to be positive!!!
Down another 20% for February and KLM down another 1000 passengers..(and that with an extra days flying in Feb)
Never mind guys Keep Calm and Keep Smiling(with heads in the sand)
Down another 20% for February and KLM down another 1000 passengers..(and that with an extra days flying in Feb)
Never mind guys Keep Calm and Keep Smiling(with heads in the sand)
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Eastern Aberdeen service pax up 8% on last Feb.
On the other hand, if you include the now axed Southampton service, Eastflight pax down 12.7% on last year.
Interesting also that KLM's pax to/from Newcastle went up by about the same percentage as DTV's declined.
NS
On the other hand, if you include the now axed Southampton service, Eastflight pax down 12.7% on last year.
Interesting also that KLM's pax to/from Newcastle went up by about the same percentage as DTV's declined.
NS
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KL AMS.
Yes in percentage terms the AMS figures whent down by 12% about the same percentage as NCL went up. But in passenger numbers MME was 1000 down and NCL about 2300 up. So NCL,s gain was only partly from MME.
So if I have worked it out correct the LF on MME-AMS is about 60%. Could be better, but not to bad.
Yes in percentage terms the AMS figures whent down by 12% about the same percentage as NCL went up. But in passenger numbers MME was 1000 down and NCL about 2300 up. So NCL,s gain was only partly from MME.
So if I have worked it out correct the LF on MME-AMS is about 60%. Could be better, but not to bad.
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KLM....
Exactly....60% is broadly ok. You wouldn't want it getting too much worse though. Also, to be fair, you would have expected forward bookings to be affected by the airport's recent uncertainty - which hopefully now has gone (in theory). With a bit of luck, I would expect KLM passenger numbers to gradually rise again back to what they were...
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oldmanjoe
On the above I make no comment.....
However well done to Emma I note that she has taken on an appropriate roll, in noting that one of the the tasks that "What We Do" love to do is "Crisis & reputation management"!
Will they ever learn!!!! Oh dear, God help us!!!!
Looking at their website and their case studies doesn't fill you with confidence.
Caravans, Probation Trust, Psyche, Hairdressing...........
Looking at their website and their case studies doesn't fill you with confidence.
Caravans, Probation Trust, Psyche, Hairdressing...........
However well done to Emma I note that she has taken on an appropriate roll, in noting that one of the the tasks that "What We Do" love to do is "Crisis & reputation management"!