DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 5

[Robert-Ryan]

Originally Posted by NorthboundA1

The housing estate prediction has come true though...hasnt it.

No. The prediction was that the housing estate would replace the airport not add to it.

Regarding KLM - I would take all this as just rumour though it seems to be common knowledge at the airport, but the current KLM contract is said to have 12-14 months left to run and that a resurrection of the 'World on your Doorstep' marketing campaign is imminent. What I tend to notice is the flights go out either chocka full or like ghost planes, rarely in the middle. A lot more full than empty I would have said but the stats seem to suggest otherwise.

[highwideandugly]

kLM loads

So looking at the above posts...half are full half are mt it looks the best bet for klm. I s to reduce the flights to 2 per day?

Feel like its a period of reflection by all while we watch the drama unfold!!

[NorthSouth]

P330:

I think it will be very hard to grow a passenger airport

But who's proposing to grow it? The Master Plan proposes (or estimates? or assumes? not clear) that pax will "grow" to 200,000 by 2020. But that's barely 22% of the peak figure in 2006, and only a 20% increase on the 2012 figure. More importantly, the Master Plan doesn't envisage anything other than the existing KLM/Eastern/Flybe Jersey services operating in 2020, so it assumes that the whole of the pax growth (including making up for the pax lost from holiday charters) is from those routes. I don't see that as a plan at all. I think the Master Plan is essentially an admission of defeat. The 200k figure isn't their own projection based on their own plan to attract traffic, it's simply a regurgitation of DfT's own 10-month-old estimate of the dismal future prospects for this beknighted airport.
Another aspect: look at their cargo plans. Lots of ground infrastructure, but for what? Three B737 flights a day. And how will they attract that? We're told the demand for specialist inbound industrial freight on KLM flights shows there's a future. But that freight amounts to less than half a tonne a year - so little that it doesn't even register in the CAA stats.
This is just a glossy brochure. All fur coat and nae knickers.
NS

[NickBarnes]

I believe KLM Cityhopper from what has been said are looking at the Emb170 to replace the F70 but of course it is only rumours

[P330]

Stats Updated

Thanks David. I've updated my post with the October numbers. With this addition, it shows we have had 12 consecutive months of rolling KLM decline. Now I know there is a core user of this service but surely this decline can only go on for so long.

Robert - I've heard the same about a marketing campaign, hopefully it can add some impetus to the service. When I use it, it is generally full but then again that is likely the 6am Monday flight I am using. More interesting is your rumour of 12 months of contract left. You would have to say that if that contract was to be renewed you would want to see the decline stop, if not reverse. A continuation of the decline would surely put a new deal at risk?

I'll keep a tab on these specific numbers from now on as I'm certain this is where the next chapter in this story will come from.

[onyxcrowle]

As Im not familiar with DTV what routes does it offer?.
How frequent is the KLM operation?. Only if they only have KLM and a route to Aberdeen then those figures cant be that diabloical.
Going by the posts about how bad it is, It seems that two airlines using one Tiny prop and a small Ageing jet Bring in almost 100 000 passenger's a month.
Has there been an official reason for binning holiday flights , beyond the probable thinking that they are only any good seasonal and with the downturn they've had , A bucket and spade route isnt going to pull in the numbers?.
Does anyone have a link to the masterplan please?.
Also based on all this. KLM seem to be onto a good thing, What about Someone Like SAS to Copenhagen . Airfrance City jet Avros to Paris and LCY.
Maybe even BA?.
Bmi seem like one to aim for. Perhaps theres something to be said for a new better terminal.
And like Flybe said going bacl to its routes and original plan to serve regional airport to regional.
Scotland to England is so limited.
Inverness isnt Covered. Maybe Flybe might see Dtv as an opertunity to screw a fantastic deal out of.
Perhaps compete on The Ams slots.
And daft as this may sound but teeside with all its industy might a route to Sumburgh/Scatsa aimed at oilworkers etc.
Ive done that route from Lba Via Abz and its a pain. Perhaps An E170 into Sumburgh direct , Something nobody does now might work.
How about Stavanger. Belfast and Glasgow.
And Klm no Props any more leaves all these Fokker 70's looking like their not going to be around forever.
Anyway all that said im not an expert. Just have a keen interest in all this and would love a bit of debate woth you guys on which Carriers and Routes realistly would work.
Ps if Klm does pull out and I dont wish that on them. But Dsa in an email indicated they was working on a hub route imminently.
Would they go there?. Or increase HUY to a 737 and more rotations.
I hope Dtv succeeds after all we are talking about real peoples livelyhoods and job losses.
So perhaps we can try move this thread away from doom and gloom and back toward Ideas and so on to improve it. Perhaps even take them To Dtv Management.
Otherwise it seems like a self forfulling prophecy.

[davidjohnson6]

As Im not familiar with DTV what routes does it offer?.

Perhaps you could look at the DTV website via Google ?

How frequent is the KLM operation?

Perhaps you could look at the KLM website ?

Only if they only have KLM and a route to Aberdeen then those figures cant be that diabloical.

An airport having just 2 routes is diabolical - makes an airport utterly dependent on just 2 customers.

Going by the posts about how bad it is, It seems that two airlines using one Tiny prop and a small Ageing jet Bring in almost 100 000 passenger's a month.

Could I refer you to the CAA website to look at the stats ? The Amsterdam route brings in 100,000 *per year*. The Aberdeen route brings in 30,000 *per year*. Combined they bring in 130,000 passengers per *year* or about 10,800 per month - about a tenth of what you are suggesting.

Has there been an official reason for binning holiday flights , beyond the probable thinking that they are only any good seasonal and with the downturn they've had , A bucket and spade route isnt going to pull in the numbers?.

Have you been reading this thread properly ? Thomson made clear that the airline had been told to p*ss off by the airport.

Does anyone have a link to the masterplan please?.

Perhaps you could visit the DTV website or look at Google ?

Also based on all this. KLM seem to be onto a good thing,

An airline flying from an airport to their main hub - isn't that what network airlines are meant to do ?

What about Someone Like SAS to Copenhagen .

SAS fly from Newcastle to Copenhagen and soon Humberside. Do you really think there's demand from DTV as well ?

Airfrance City jet Avros to Paris and LCY.

Cityjet are losing tons of money right now - I think they lost over 100 million euros last year. Air France is desperate to sell Cityjet to anyone with a bit of cash. Cityjet have been cutting routes - expanding is not on their agenda.

Maybe even BA?.

Why on earth would BA want to use a precious Heathrow slot on DTV when it can be used on a flight to the USA with lots of high spending premium class customers instead ? Gatwick cannot even support a Manchester route, never mind DTV.

Bmi seem like one to aim for

Bmi (before being taken over by BA) used to fly to DTV. They stopped because they realised the value of Heathrow slots compared to the ticket sales at DTV. Bmi regional are in the middle of cutbacks right now, not growth.

Perhaps theres something to be said for a new better terminal.

A nice new terminal costs a ton of money. If Peel aren't paying, who will pay ?

And like Flybe said going bacl to its routes and original plan to serve regional airport to regional.

Flybe are closing their Newcastle base along with 5 other bases and making an additional 500 staff redundant. Opening new bases is not part of their plan right now.

Scotland to England is so limited.

Really ? There are a ton of flights from London, southern England, the Midlands, East Anglia and Manchester to Scotland. Is it possible that with a very fast train line along England's east coast to Edinburgh that there just isn't the need for flights between DTV (or Doncaster) to southern Scotland ?

Inverness isnt Covered

Inverness is a modest city in the middle of a very empty and rural area. Inverness' metropolitan area has just 60,000 people. Low density of population doesn't encourage air routes. Flybe are closing their Inverness base.

Maybe Flybe might see Dtv as an opertunity to screw a fantastic deal out of.

If the customers won't pay for Flybe at Newcastle, then there certainly isn't enough money at DTV

Perhaps compete on The Ams slots.

DTV-AMS works only because of people connecting to other places on KLM's network. Easyjet and KLM also both fly Newcastle-Amsterdam. Flybe operating DTV-AMS in competition with KLM would be commercial suicide

And daft as this may sound but teeside with all its industy might a route to Sumburgh/Scatsa aimed at oilworkers etc.

There is already a route from DTV to Aberdeen aimed at oil workers. Once at Aberdeen, there are onward connections to Sumburgh and Scatsta. Remember that Sumburgh and Scatsta are still pretty small airports.

Ive done that route from Lba Via Abz and its a pain. Perhaps An E170 into Sumburgh direct

Eastern can't make an E170 work to Aberdeen. Why would it work to Shetland ?

Something nobody does now might work.

We're at the end game of airline consolidation. The time for off beat ideas and experiments was over 10 years ago.

How about Stavanger. Belfast and Glasgow.

Eastern operate Newcastle-Stavanger. Easyjet and Flybe both operate Newcastle-Belfast. Flybe are shrinking Newcastle, and Easyjet already have chosen Newcatle as their base in the North East. How long does it take by train from Darlington to Glasgow ?

Ps if Klm does pull out and I dont wish that on them. But Dsa in an email indicated they was working on a hub route imminently.
Would they go there?. Or increase HUY to a 737 and more rotations.

The nearest airports to DTV are Newcastle and as a 2nd best, Leeds. KLM already fly to both Newcastle and Leeds, so are likely to grow their service at those 2 airports. Humberside as 3rd best might get a tiny crumb of extra service, but the increased availability will be overwhelmingly Newcastle and Leeds. If Doncaster gets a hub route, it will not be because of events at DTV

I hope Dtv succeeds after all we are talking about real peoples livelyhoods and job losses.

If anyone working at DTV doesn't already expect job losses, they're living in a rather naive world.

So perhaps we can try move this thread away from doom and gloom and back toward Ideas and so on to improve it. Perhaps even take them To Dtv Management.

Look up FoDTVA on the web - bunch of people who are given the odd bit of face time by airport management in the hope that Peel will be seen a listening to the community and supporters of the airport.

Otherwise it seems like a self forfulling prophecy.

Agree with you

[P330]

Lapland

Looks like the one-off Lapland charter is still going ahead next month. Last year the operator cancelled it, so better news. However, how does this fit with the strategy of cancelling charter flights?

Or is it simply that the programme is in, its a one-off so let it go but next year they won't be allowing 200+ excitable families through the door for a Lapland adventure?

[Richard Taylor]

Roll up for a one off santa flight.
Fly off to visit Father Christmas in Lapland with one-off trip from Durham Tees Valley Airport (From The Northern Echo)

Dear Santa Claus,

We've been very good. Please may we have a new airport and owner for DTV...

[AndyH52]

Cabby, you're article is a little behind the times...the NWDA was abolished in 2010.

[N707ZS]

Some people have a short memory

I'm giving up on PPRuNe

Agree with Beafer its a done deal. As they say on the Dragons den, I'm out too.

Make your minds up!

[MMCMME]

Urgent runway repairs today. Runway closed from 1600hrs but the royals made it out of dodge early before Paddy and Mick turned up

Is it true that the runway is subsiding?

Urgent runway repairs? Not quite sure where it says that.
If the runway was subsiding, surely that would take more than 5 hours on a Saturday afternoon to fix...?

Merely patching a few potholes.

[Beafer]

The memory is an age thing, it affects us all in later life
In for a penny or should that be the pound which Peel paid for Sheffield?

How much BMI compensation did Peel get in the end, was it £8m?
Why wasnt that invested in new hangars instead of needing to build 400 houses?

Has anyone seen Master plan part 2? Are Peel planning a further 1000 houses on the south side in phase 2? Word down the pub is its a done deal with the council.

[Mickey Kaye]

Someone please remind me.

When Peel paid 500 grand for the aerodrome how much did they Promise to pump into the airifield?

My memory fades a little but when I was last there I got the impression they have't spent a penny.

[Piltdown Man]

Closed from 1600 till 2100.

Is that a time or a date period?

PM

[Piltdown Man]

...but while I'm here. The article in the Northern Echo:

The rescue plan, unveiled last week, proposes to build between 250 and 400 new homes on land to the west and north of the terminal, including land previously earmarked as a business park.

Now call me a cynic, but wouldn't that kill the airport? Imagine how many noise complaints there will be. When the lovely people who will eventually buy these houses move in to discover, shock of all shocks, that there's an airport in their back garden. Should there ever be an increase in movements, the new residents will be out there in their onesies, complete with grubby baby eating a Greggs pasty, complaining about the 100% increase in flights and how it will poison their goldfish etc...

PM

[TSR2]

When the lovely people who will eventually buy these houses move in to discover, shock of all shocks, that there's an airport in their back garden.

The lovely people will/should be well aware of the circumstances prior to purchase.

[EK77WNCL]

That's probably part of Peel's plan! Fill the houses up with Nimby's and wait for the complaints to start flooding in... Bish bash bosh, airport closed, sell the land, more houses, everybody's happy...

DTV is a splendid little airport and I hate to see it heading this way.

[tubtruck]

Starting to get used to always flying from other airports now, doubt I will miss MME in the end, goodbye MME you are easily forgotten by me.

[davidjohnson6]

Do Eastern run a Sunday-only flight between Durham Tees Valley and Southampton any more ? Eastern's website doesn't seem to want to know about it...