EasyJet - 4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Prestwick, Scotland
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hundredpercentplease
If you do work for easyJet perhaps you could consider the following:-
EZY6918 25th Oct Basel to EDI. Aircraft arrives Basel 30 minutes late. Gate staff start people queueing before aircraft on stand. The passengers did not start it, the gate agents did. Maybe to get flight turned round quicker, understandably. Did I hear the Captain say reason for delay was ground handling at EDI before departure ? Anyway, we board. Because we're late we have to take another 30 minute delay awaiting a slot. Depart 1 hour late.
Arrive EDI. No groundstaff. We wait onboard 15 minutes for ground staff to bother to show up. Menzies on steps, so Menzies handling ? So why don't you get a handler who is prepared to meet aircraft on arrival ? Remember the aircraft was late out of EDI to begin with. Or with-hold payment ? On EDI thread another says it's an 'Edinburgh thing'. Then into UKBA. Too small for purpose, too few staff even though all desks staffed, too long a queue. Bad experience for our foreign visitors, and me. BTW, your aircraft is now running 1 hour 15 minutes late at least due the compounding of 3 delays. An unsatisfactory arrival experience, which is what one remembers rather than the satisfactory flight itself.
So, get EDI handing sorted out, avoid missing slots, avoid 'making up time' enroute thus flying at a more expensive Cost Index and burning your profit, and avoid having your Captain PA that he is embarrassed. Over to you ?
If you do work for easyJet perhaps you could consider the following:-
EZY6918 25th Oct Basel to EDI. Aircraft arrives Basel 30 minutes late. Gate staff start people queueing before aircraft on stand. The passengers did not start it, the gate agents did. Maybe to get flight turned round quicker, understandably. Did I hear the Captain say reason for delay was ground handling at EDI before departure ? Anyway, we board. Because we're late we have to take another 30 minute delay awaiting a slot. Depart 1 hour late.
Arrive EDI. No groundstaff. We wait onboard 15 minutes for ground staff to bother to show up. Menzies on steps, so Menzies handling ? So why don't you get a handler who is prepared to meet aircraft on arrival ? Remember the aircraft was late out of EDI to begin with. Or with-hold payment ? On EDI thread another says it's an 'Edinburgh thing'. Then into UKBA. Too small for purpose, too few staff even though all desks staffed, too long a queue. Bad experience for our foreign visitors, and me. BTW, your aircraft is now running 1 hour 15 minutes late at least due the compounding of 3 delays. An unsatisfactory arrival experience, which is what one remembers rather than the satisfactory flight itself.
So, get EDI handing sorted out, avoid missing slots, avoid 'making up time' enroute thus flying at a more expensive Cost Index and burning your profit, and avoid having your Captain PA that he is embarrassed. Over to you ?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ballymena
Posts: 1,438
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe it is what they are used to after years of un-allocated seating. I find that I cannot hang around to the end to board as luggage in the cabin is now a real problem. All the LCC flights I have taken recently, 6, all have had problems with too much luggage in the cabin. Not all with Ezy. This is now a real issue as pax try to avoid the huge fees charged to check in a bag.
TB
TB
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: UK North
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Because, pamann, what was a seat fight has now become a cabin baggage fight. Anything to make passengers move fast and keep the turnrounds short.
Plus herd instinct, plus habit.
Plus often you just cannot avoid it, because you are forced to join the back of a queue by a closing gate. Try and stay seated upstairs in the corridor at AMS and you will be barred as the gate closes, so at STD-30 you have no option but to move on and join the standing throng.
Plus herd instinct, plus habit.
Plus often you just cannot avoid it, because you are forced to join the back of a queue by a closing gate. Try and stay seated upstairs in the corridor at AMS and you will be barred as the gate closes, so at STD-30 you have no option but to move on and join the standing throng.
pilothouse,
I (I suspect) am the same as you - a long term Capt that does a few other bits and bobs. I just get to see the operation rather than change it...
My point about "once a year" is that it will take time for pax to realise that there is no need to queue. I don't think that any airline exploits the queue, but in order to avoid delay we (like others) are keen on getting our ground handlers to be "efficient" with pax handling. Obviously the goal is to have the pax near to the a/c and ready to get on just a few seconds before the crew are ready.
However, you are absolutely correct about the quality of the ground staff contractors. In some stations it works very well, in others there is a lot to be done. My heart sinks when we arrive on a bussing stand in a hot destination only to see the outbound pax already sitting on a bus waiting.
We have done much to improve the product inside the a/c doors; we are all now working on the ground handling. It will get better!
I (I suspect) am the same as you - a long term Capt that does a few other bits and bobs. I just get to see the operation rather than change it...
My point about "once a year" is that it will take time for pax to realise that there is no need to queue. I don't think that any airline exploits the queue, but in order to avoid delay we (like others) are keen on getting our ground handlers to be "efficient" with pax handling. Obviously the goal is to have the pax near to the a/c and ready to get on just a few seconds before the crew are ready.
However, you are absolutely correct about the quality of the ground staff contractors. In some stations it works very well, in others there is a lot to be done. My heart sinks when we arrive on a bussing stand in a hot destination only to see the outbound pax already sitting on a bus waiting.
We have done much to improve the product inside the a/c doors; we are all now working on the ground handling. It will get better!
My heart sinks when we arrive on a bussing stand in a hot destination only to see the outbound pax already sitting on a bus waiting.
As someone who gets paid to sit in the pointy end, why do you personally really care if there's a bunch of punters stuck in a hot bus in summer or waiting in an outdoor cage while snow is falling mid-winter ? Means at the very least that you get to fly again quickly with a much lower risk of hanging around waiting for a new slot to be granted. The less time an aircraft spends on the ground, the earlier you get to go home without spending time at work unpaid. Ultimately as long as there is nothing like killing children to sacrifice their blood to the OTP deity going on, what the handling agent does is not the problem of the people who do the flying.
If there's a delay to a flight, it's a very simple matter of just reading a generic series of lines "Terribly sorry for the delay but we had a problem with some paperwork" - passengers won't have a clue as to what's really behind the delay and you can take it off your list of things to worry about.
</Cynic mode=off>
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 28th Oct 2013 at 17:47.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: UK North
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, pilots do care! A lot
Hundredpercent
Yes it does indeed look as if we are indeed singing from the same hymnsheet after all that!
David
With rare exceptions, you might be absolutely amazed by just how much we "at the pointy end" do care. It hurts us unbelievably to see passengers treated like cattle or subjected to indignities or unexplained delays. When we see injustice and inefficiency, we try and show our concern, attempt practical steps to improve things on the day and, later send in our reports.
We are ambassadors for our companies and want our passengers to enjoy our flights, indeed our entire company product. Cabin crew do of course care a huge amount too, but their actions though laudable are necessarily more limited.
How much we can achieve is largely dependent upon our company. In mine, I might delay boarding for 5 minutes while we muck in and shift a sea of trash from the floor. I don't like to think of you boarding a filthy plane. In another company, I might get disciplined for that. Generally, the more autonomy a crew has, the better they will be at working in your interests and solving your problems.
Remember that when things go wrong, the crew are working so hard that they may not have time to tell you what is going on until later. Also, there is unfortunately an increasing tendency towards minimising information to avoid unfair claims for liability. However a good crew will succeed in reassuring you one way or another.
If ever you get a crew that seems completely ambivalent to the passengers' distress, it is most likely with an airline where every last hint of pro-company morale has been squeezed out of them.
Yes it does indeed look as if we are indeed singing from the same hymnsheet after all that!
David
With rare exceptions, you might be absolutely amazed by just how much we "at the pointy end" do care. It hurts us unbelievably to see passengers treated like cattle or subjected to indignities or unexplained delays. When we see injustice and inefficiency, we try and show our concern, attempt practical steps to improve things on the day and, later send in our reports.
We are ambassadors for our companies and want our passengers to enjoy our flights, indeed our entire company product. Cabin crew do of course care a huge amount too, but their actions though laudable are necessarily more limited.
How much we can achieve is largely dependent upon our company. In mine, I might delay boarding for 5 minutes while we muck in and shift a sea of trash from the floor. I don't like to think of you boarding a filthy plane. In another company, I might get disciplined for that. Generally, the more autonomy a crew has, the better they will be at working in your interests and solving your problems.
Remember that when things go wrong, the crew are working so hard that they may not have time to tell you what is going on until later. Also, there is unfortunately an increasing tendency towards minimising information to avoid unfair claims for liability. However a good crew will succeed in reassuring you one way or another.
If ever you get a crew that seems completely ambivalent to the passengers' distress, it is most likely with an airline where every last hint of pro-company morale has been squeezed out of them.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: London
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What is the logic of this?
We booked easyJet to Budapest with two checked bags, maximum 40kg. On the return we had 43kg, and were threatened with a penalty. So we took out 3kg (of shoes!) which went into my carry on bag. The agent then said that we could check in a third bag free of charge. So I carried my camera and Ipad and took advantage of the offer (this third bag now weighing 8kg). Where, pray, is the logic in that??
Anyone know how this fits with their regulations?
Anyone know how this fits with their regulations?
Herding at departure gates
I fly with EZY maybe 10 sectors a year. Usually very good, even at my home base of GLA where the departure lounge (old international pier 1965-66 build) is creaking a little, and very draughty in winter. That said, the agents at GLA are not too bad.
Contrast with BRS last week, boarding a rammed A319 from gate 15 (out of the trap door at the end ten tin sheds nailed together). Flight called for boarding at 15:50 for the scheduled 16:25 departure. Gulped my Thatchers cider down and marched down the sheds to the gate, where all pax zigzagged within a pen, waiting time around 20 minutes before the doors were opened.
We were still ten minutes late off stand (no issue for me), as the local crew were not ready for pax until ten mins before scheduled.
No beef with the airline as such, just frustrating as SLF having the "herding" treatment when the dispatcher (and maybe the crew talking to the dispatcher) could have managed things better.
Just some $0.02.
Contrast with BRS last week, boarding a rammed A319 from gate 15 (out of the trap door at the end ten tin sheds nailed together). Flight called for boarding at 15:50 for the scheduled 16:25 departure. Gulped my Thatchers cider down and marched down the sheds to the gate, where all pax zigzagged within a pen, waiting time around 20 minutes before the doors were opened.
We were still ten minutes late off stand (no issue for me), as the local crew were not ready for pax until ten mins before scheduled.
No beef with the airline as such, just frustrating as SLF having the "herding" treatment when the dispatcher (and maybe the crew talking to the dispatcher) could have managed things better.
Just some $0.02.
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Surrey
Age: 36
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Excess luggage
To reduce the amount of hand luggage on board. It's called volunteer bags. You would have to wait for the other bags you had checked in, might aswell wait for the third.
I know it's stupid to repack for something that would still be checked in
I know it's stupid to repack for something that would still be checked in
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Edinburgh
Age: 39
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We booked easyJet to Budapest with two checked bags, maximum 40kg. On the return we had 43kg, and were threatened with a penalty. So we took out 3kg (of shoes!) which went into my carry on bag. The agent then said that we could check in a third bag free of charge. So I carried my camera and Ipad and took advantage of the offer (this third bag now weighing 8kg). Where, pray, is the logic in that??
Anyone know how this fits with their regulations?
Anyone know how this fits with their regulations?
The agent was probably told, however, that on a busy flight hand baggage can be checked in free of charge (probably up to 10KG, or something which is no bigger than the standard COB allowance).
I admit it would have made more sense for the agent to say chuck the 3rd bag on FOC before you repacked it, but they are human after all and the waiving of the baggage fee may have slipped their mind and to save face may have decided not to tell yo once you were already repacking the bag. Either that or they didn't realise you had another bag suitable for the hold.
Last edited by edi_local; 30th Oct 2013 at 19:31.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: London
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for these thoughts, guys. I had no problem with being pulled for the extra 3kg. I should add that the whole process was handled politely and with humour by both us and the agents together with seven trainee agents who watched the proceedings. Didn't mean to suggest any dissatisfaction with the airline.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: up north
Posts: 310
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"
Contrast with BRS last week, boarding a rammed A319 from gate 15 (out of the trap door at the end ten tin sheds nailed together). Flight called for boarding at 15:50 for the scheduled 16:25 departure. Gulped my Thatchers cider down and marched down the sheds to the gate, where all pax zigzagged within a pen, waiting time around 20 minutes before the doors were opened.
We were still ten minutes late off stand (no issue for me), as the local crew were not ready for pax until ten mins before scheduled.
No beef with the airline as such, just frustrating as SLF having the "herding" treatment when the dispatcher (and maybe the crew talking to the dispatcher) could have managed things better"
Couldn't agree more. I've had the misfortune to catch the late evening Newcastle a few times recently. Everytime, herded through the sheds to stand in a snaking queue in a bare depressing hall, up to 30 mins before the aircraft is on the ground, never mind on stand.
Contrast with BRS last week, boarding a rammed A319 from gate 15 (out of the trap door at the end ten tin sheds nailed together). Flight called for boarding at 15:50 for the scheduled 16:25 departure. Gulped my Thatchers cider down and marched down the sheds to the gate, where all pax zigzagged within a pen, waiting time around 20 minutes before the doors were opened.
We were still ten minutes late off stand (no issue for me), as the local crew were not ready for pax until ten mins before scheduled.
No beef with the airline as such, just frustrating as SLF having the "herding" treatment when the dispatcher (and maybe the crew talking to the dispatcher) could have managed things better"
Couldn't agree more. I've had the misfortune to catch the late evening Newcastle a few times recently. Everytime, herded through the sheds to stand in a snaking queue in a bare depressing hall, up to 30 mins before the aircraft is on the ground, never mind on stand.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: UK North
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I use Bristol quite a lot and find the herding of SLF very irritating.
Industry-wide, it does seem that the root cause of ridiculous baggage scenarios and poor boarding timings is indeed the terror of handling agents at the lowest level - terror of being disciplined if they use their discretion or cut things too fine. A little more emphasis on common sense and less use of the stick would work wonders in giving passengers a better experience. But is there any indication that anyone on high is bothered?
Industry-wide, it does seem that the root cause of ridiculous baggage scenarios and poor boarding timings is indeed the terror of handling agents at the lowest level - terror of being disciplined if they use their discretion or cut things too fine. A little more emphasis on common sense and less use of the stick would work wonders in giving passengers a better experience. But is there any indication that anyone on high is bothered?
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Speaking from a handlers perspective, our own guidelines for a major loco at Cork is to commence boarding when the final arrival passenger has left the apron which usually is +15 to departure - in the case its a early morning flight or a flight later on in the day (i.e. after a prolonged period on the ground) we board at +20 to +25 before departure depending if the flight is fully loaded or not, and we regularly have in excess of 180 pax on those flights. From my own perspective, handlers at BRS have no excuse for a ''herding'' style boarding when dealing with maximum pax load of 156 on the majority of EZY flights. However guidelines are set by local management, so therein lies the problem.
Last edited by Jack1985; 31st Oct 2013 at 11:50.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
......and guess how station managers performance and bonuses are evaluated? It is not just easyJet. I work for a major US carrier, and am very aware that even one minute behind schedule can cause severe admonishment to the station agents.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: LGW
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A little more emphasis on common sense and less use of the stick would work wonders in giving passengers a better experience. But is there any indication that anyone on high is bothered?
Last edited by SouBE; 2nd Nov 2013 at 13:11.