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Old 9th Feb 2012, 08:57
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Passengers tend to get the level of service they deserve based on the price they are willing to pay and FR are the masters of this! Not that there is much wrong with what they do, it's more how they do it.

Having watched the unpacking and re packing of luggage of people boarding FR flight and then queuing topay the excess charges many would have been better of paying more with another carrier in the first place!

But in the bar in IBZ the talk will be of a return flight for £19.99 although the amount paid will much more, there is something wrong when a product is advertised at £9.99 but ends up costing £79.99 at the till, Jet2 are no better.

To get an idea of what a flight will cost look at the bmibaby web site, they show 3 types of fare for each flight, the fly business or whatever it's called is a lot closer to the mark of what you'll end up paying if you select economy then go through build your own procces, how many people do that I do not know.

Back to EasyJet, flown with them a lot of late and it's difficult to fault, clean aircraft lots of leg room excellent cabin crew and flight deck, who a version of English that I could understand, not level four Eastern European version, given he choice they tend to be mine unless BA are close on price
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Old 9th Feb 2012, 09:27
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Discrimination Against Minorities As A Matter Of Company Policy

easyflyer83 -

I accept your point that the general public is generally unwilling to pay for a fully-inclusive service these days. It is for this reason that certain optional extras such as additional baggage, on-board meals and so on are sold and itemised separately. This is an inconvenience with respect to the speed of the booking process, but I recognise the justification for it. But we must be clear here: those who purchase an optional extra pay exactly the same for it as do their counterparts, and they receive a tangible product in return for their money.

The fine levied against single travellers is entirely different. There is NO enhancement to the product for those targeted by this, and it is not applied equally across customers purchasing an identical product at the same time. Fuel surcharges, whilst objectionable as an 'extra', are at least shared between all customers equally. As a customer, I actually believe that items such as fuel should constitute part of the headline price at all times. I am very happy for airlines to sell travel at a price which covers all costs and allows for a reasonable profit margin, but unavoidable elements of the fare should be included in the first price displayed. They are not an optional extra.

As a regular customer, there are certain things I require from my travel provider. I want a simple booking process which shows the true price at the outset. No tricks, chicanery or spivvery. I want a final price which is fair to provider and customer alike. I want to receive what I have paid for. And, I want to know that the company values my business and will treat me with respect. EasyJet has now spectacularly violated that last requirement. Many singles are very frequent travellers offering a high level of repeat business, as I do myself. But the message I perceive from EasyJet now is this: we see you as easy prey, a soft target. We will discriminate against you and rip you off with a fine which offers you *nothing* in return for the extra money we extract from you.

It is one thing to not offer a frequent flyer programme. But it is quite another to discourage a valuable segment of the market with a discriminatory fine for the crime of traveling alone. This will cost EasyJet goodwill and repeat business from customers of long-standing. Fool me once, shame on you ... fool me twice ...

I do wonder if EasyJet management wish to consider random additional charges levied against travellers on the grounds of race, religion or sexual orientation. Well, apparently outrageous discrimination against one minority group (singles) is fine, so why not others as well? The moral principle is the same; the shameful act of ripping off a specific minority group is identical. Why should widows, nuns, and those who simply choose to travel alone be selected for financial repression in this manner? Where is the justification?

Sadly, I find myself in agreement with Stelios for once. If this despicable attack on the single traveller is indicative of EasyJet management's corporate culture, then indeed they DO NOT deserve a bonus.

SHED.
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Old 9th Feb 2012, 10:14
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Shed, just take a mate with you or maybe a mail order bride. That solves the problem!

One way of looking at the fee is that everyone pays a fuel surcharge/booking fee with other airlines. However, If you bulk book with EZY you get a "discount" in that only one person pays the admin fee. This benefits families so many will like it (Liking it being relative!!).

Rather than viewing it as discriminating against singles you could consider that it is being used to win business from families and groups?

I get your points and kind of agree but I think its taking it a little bit far to suggest its similar to charging people dependant on race, religion or sexual orientation!!!! I mean really. You do seem to be getting a tad worked up over this one!

If things were changed to benefit singles like yourself, families would suffer! This charge benefits bulk orders. This is generally the case all over the world in any industry.

The world has changed. People demand low "headline" fares. Generally unsustainable fares. The price you see is the price you never pay. We all know this. It can take quite a while therefore to compare prices but if you sit down its not difficult.

I just don't think its worth getting all worked up over! Yeah it does penalise the people who travel on their own regularly.....but it benefits families and groups. Maybe someone somewhere has worked out its families that are feeling the pinch more???

Given the number of companies and supermarkets offering meal deals and BOGOF's you must have run out of places to buy food!!!

I just consider some things in life worthy of getting worked up about and others just not worth it. Think of your blood pressure.

I totally agree about the board bonuses and I totally understand why you are irritated by this.
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Old 9th Feb 2012, 11:20
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Neither families nor singles benefit in any way from the imposition of a random additional charge ("admin fee") which should be included in the basic fare as part of the integral cost of doing business. Giving a "discount" on what is effectively a fine for booking is unlikely to garner praise from anyone, let alone those picked on to pay more than "their share" of the burden. At least the other unfair hidden charges are levied across all customers equally.

Like it or not, single travellers ARE a minority group. Targeting them for financial repression is no different in moral terms than penalising Jews, gays or females. It has just been overlooked in terms of legislation. If singles receive something extra for their additional fee (eg. use of a double hotel room), fair enough. Otherwise, no way. There is no additional cost to the business in this case. A single customer uses half the number of seats as a couple, and therefore it is fitting that the price paid should be exactly half as much.

Even if this immoral business practice did in some way encourage families to book (though I'm not sure how random additional fees, even at a reduced rate, achieve this), many families fly just one round trip per year. A large number of single tavellers fly very frequently. Penalising them is not good for business. You say that if charges were changed to benefit singles like me, families would suffer. Well, I'm not looking to get a *better* deal than families. I just expect to pay an identical price for an identical product. Parity. To be treated equally and not ripped off. This is hardly an unreasonable expectation, is it?

This unequally applied charge is a major blunder by EasyJet however they dress it up or try to justify it.

PS. The big difference with BOGOF promotions in a supermarket is that a single customer can buy and use two bags of sugar. They cannot travel twice on the same flight. And if a restaurant charges two main courses at the same price as one ... they can darned well bring me two meals!!! I can always ask for a doggy-bag at the end!

Last edited by Shed-on-a-Pole; 9th Feb 2012 at 11:31.
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Old 9th Feb 2012, 11:31
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We used to sell 800g loaves and 400g loaves, the 400g loaves were almost the full price of the 800g ones yet pensioners on a single measly income were uncomfortable to waste. Life is made for couples alas, the market economy often does have it's head up it's backside.
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Old 9th Feb 2012, 12:18
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The simple answer is to fly with BA, KLM, Lufthansa Brussels airlines etc, I am finding on almost every trip now (as a single traveller) they are cheaper than Easy, Monarch or Ryanair.

The booking is easier, simpler & more transparent.

I was in BCN last week & the check in hall was awash with dozens of pax re packing suitcases by the Ryanair desks. Looked like a refugee camp than an airport.

The week before I was in Alicante, where the Easy Speedy boarding check in queue was about 30 people deep because every pax at the front was arguing about excess baggage.

It ain't worth it. Just how many people fly these "low Co" airlines & actually end up paying more than legacy carriers?
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Old 9th Feb 2012, 12:40
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Maybe families can only afford one flight a year so charging them all may stop them flying this year. Singles like yourself who clearly (in this case) have more disposable income and travel regularly will probably be able to afford the increase? Its all really about getting all the revenue they can from each passenger.

I am not justifying it. I am just trying to explain it! Whatever it's called it all goes towards bonus payments anyway.

I just found your comparison of penalising people booking a single ticket similar to racism, sexism or homophobia, to be honest, rather amusing.

If its a blunder market forces will prevail and the charge will be changed, dropped or spread over all bookings.

Even if there is an admin fee and the tickets are still cheaper people will still fly EZY. If they aren't then they won't.

I actually pretty much agree with you. I just find your conclusion that its morally similar to oppressing other minority groups very amusing.

This is not someone oppressing you. It is simply business. That's life! By all means complain about the structure of the fee. That's fine. But please don't present a rather laughable argument that morally its the same as persecuting a minority group.

Personally though I don't think there should be an admin fee. It should all be wrapped up in the cost of the seat.

Have you written to the CEO to express your view? Try it. Rather than venting on here make a direct attempt to make change. Good luck.
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Old 9th Feb 2012, 13:25
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one post only -

As you say, we are not far apart on certain points. However, whilst you find my suggestion that single travellers are a bona fide minority group "laughable", I must retort that your idea that families are poor and singles are rich is similarly "laughable". We just cannot generalise like that. What about multi-income families? What about widows? Ah, your husband is dead! Now you can pay extra!!! Some people are wealthy, others are not, regardless of their family situation. Ripping them off based on such a generalisation is not justifiable.

Customers purchasing identical products at the same time should not face discriminatory predatory pricing. If a manager cannot generate profit using a fair and equitable pricing structure then that individual should step aside in favour of a capable replacement. Promotional deals designed to boost bookings can be devised without selectively and unfairly disadvantaging a core group of the existing customer base. And a supposed discount on a "fee for nothing" doesn't come across as a compelling deal anyway.
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Old 9th Feb 2012, 15:19
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Shed, I don't find you calling single travellers a bona fide minority group laughable, what I do find laughable is that you can call the fiscal repression you face the same as discrimination against other minority groups based on sex, religion etc. Come on. That's just ridiculous.

I am not generalising about singles and families. I said in this case. As in you. You said you travel regularly as a single. Therefore you clearly can afford it and must have a lot of disposable income. It is therefore a reasonable assumption that you have money. It was not a generalisation it was a specific case.

Again I suggest you write or become a majority shareholder and move aside those managers discriminating. Or even better whenever there is a single out there that is oppressed by a BOGOF, by a 2 for one offer and by a couple only deal I shall expect you now to scale the houses of parliament and wave your underpants in protest at the brutal oppression of this modern day highway robbery. Maybe also when a family consisting of 5 people is penalised by the 2 adults 2 children you can protest on their behalf (although lets not mention they got their tickets cheaper than you with EZY).

We will be here all day. This is now not about EZY but about your perceived idea that the world unfairly discriminates against singles.

Whatever you say I will still find the idea of a pricing structure that discriminates on the basis of a single purchase akin to racism, sexism or homophobia ridiculous.

Bulk purchases generally bring about a discount. That's life. Seat prices change based on supply and demand so you might get them cheaper than a group or family anyway. Maybe that will make you feel better.

As this is now nothing really to do with EZY lets end our thrilling discussion (as riveting as I am sure it is for the enthralled PPRuNe masses) and head our separate ways......you get climbing a ladder to the top of parliament....I am going to go and bulk buy some products from a wholesaler so I can annoy my minority group (not saying which group) neighbour who shops at the supermarket and is therefore brutally oppressed for buying items individually.

I totally agree the fee is unfortunate for single ticket purchasers, they may be singletons, widows, nuns, business men, family members travelling alone or possibly divorced flightless birds but I am quite sure its not a form of repression. I will speak to my friend who is a leading human rights lawyer but I think I know what the answer will be.....
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Old 9th Feb 2012, 15:41
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I have noted several times that a single ticket is quoted as less than multiple tickets booked at the same time on Squeezy. It can be more cost effective to make more than one booking if several people are travelling together, even after the £9 charge, particularly on the more popular flights.
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Old 9th Feb 2012, 16:36
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one post only -

You are right that we should end this discussion, so I will answer your final challenges and move on. The case I have put forward refers to the principle of equitable pricing for identical products. Whether or not I personally would be considered wealthy or impoverished is entirely irrelevant and has no place in this debate. It is not about one customer. Perhaps you believe that people wearing suits should pay GBP5.00 for a tin of beans whilst those wearing jeans and a t-shirt should pay GBP1.00. Not so. The pricing of a product should represent the cost of providing it plus a reasonable margin of profit. And that includes EasyJet fares. The idea that I should pay extra for identical products because you deem me able to afford being ripped off is absurd. Think about it.

You go on to say that "this is not now about EZY". Yes, it is. And it has been throughout this discussion (wrt my postings anyway). For it is they who have introduced a discriminatory and predatory charge which penalises single travellers without any justification or resulting product enhancement in return. My point in mentioning minority groups is not to weigh the respective issues concerning each group, but to point out that single travellers are a minority group. They are. And EasyJet is discriminating against this group and deserves to take flak for its behaviour in consequence. I do not claim that the whole world discriminates against singles; far from it. BUT EASYJET DOES! That is the point here.

Unless I am directly addressed by a subsequent poster here, I propose to let this topic rest now. The points have been made.
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Old 9th Feb 2012, 17:20
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I never said you should pay more because you can afford it. The costs of the seat vary anyway so some people will always pay more for the same service irrespective. That's air travel, hotels....capitalism in general.

You could argue that late bookers are penalised against also as they often pay more. Is this predatory and discriminatory?? You would say so. I would say its supply and demand. Who said it all has to be fair? You pay what you pay on the day. Just accept it and move on!

I keep saying I actually don't agree with this charge. I just thought that comparing the admin fee to racism, sexism or homophobia was completely and utterly ridiculous and I am sure you know perfectly well that it is a rather silly argument. I totally agree with you otherwise.

Whatever, it all boils down to the final cost.

I feel like I have just wasted hours of my life.....
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Old 9th Feb 2012, 17:44
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I suspect that some lazy management numptie just thought...

single traveller = rich businessman

...rather than...

single traveller = frequent leisure traveller or pensioner or student or relative visiting family or etc, etc, etc

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Old 9th Feb 2012, 18:00
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I wish there was an airline where last minute tickets where really cheap and it was almost a lottery if you got them.

For example if you turn up at the airport on the day and a buy a ticket it would be really cheap.
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Old 9th Feb 2012, 21:42
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one post only -

Your further comment necessitates additional clarification from myself. Seat pricing does vary based upon bookings made at different times. Those who book early get one price, those who book late get another. This is simple economics. It is above board yield management strategy in action and my earlier postings make clear that I am not arguing against this process. My postings refer to IDENTICAL products (ie. those booked simultaneously for the same flight) attracting a differing "admin charge" from EasyJet according to who is making the booking. Note the wording *AT THE SAME TIME* present in my earlier posting(s). The admin charge which is the subject of my comments is applied equally to early bookings and late bookings, regardless of how fully sold (or not) a flight may be. But it is not applied equally per customer; this is the bit I do object to.

"YOU WOULD SAY SO": Please do not presume to know what I would say in a new discussion. Nowhere have I argued against higher tariffs for late bookings in accordance with accepted yield management principles. Do not select a new area of discussion and tell readers here what my views on that subject will be.

Finally, I do NOT compare the admin fee to racism / sexism. It is you who seems "utterly ridiculous" for suggesting that. I point out that single travellers are a minority group (as indeed they are), and that other minority groups could not be penalised with impunity in the way EasyJet have stung singles in this instance. That is a quite different assertion to the one you infer.

Let's just stick debating to what I have actually written, rather than what you would like me to have written. In return, I will not apply your logic to new scenarios upon which you have never passed comment, and in which your arguments do not fit. And I will not tell other readers what you would think in a wholly new area of discussion.

As you suggest, I think we have the discriminatory "admin fee" debate covered now.
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Old 10th Feb 2012, 08:47
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Blimey, I hope Ms McCall is now clear on the matter.
I'm off to book another legacy flight ( without single supplement)...
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Old 10th Feb 2012, 20:39
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Apologies, haven't followed the majority of this thread.

Easyjet have led a strong marketing campaign in recent years to encourage business people to use their airline. Why would you alienate your key target market like this?! Shear stupidity.

Business passengers are absolutely crucial for any legacy carrier. This is a major own goal for easyJet and just adds more fuel to Stelios' fire.
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Old 10th Feb 2012, 21:05
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Methinks people are far too exercised by the £9.00

I fly for business and will make a decision based on price and convenience. providing the convenience is there lets look at it this way on price.

Airline A all charges included £150 return
Airline B all charges included £140 return
Easyjets £90 plus the £9 fee = £99 return

Will I say no I wont fly easy because of that damnable fee, course not.
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Old 10th Feb 2012, 23:14
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I agree with you, except, I'm finding airline A & airline B are cheaper than Easy now, and of course airline A & B make it clear its all in , tickets, bags, boarding, snack etc.........whilst after various additions Easy plods in with airline b price + £9 & often even more.
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Old 10th Feb 2012, 23:38
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new EZY routes out of MAN?

Anyone any news on new EZY routes out of MAN to be announced later this year? Hopefully willy jousting againts AF in Toulouse will not have been sufficient reason to delay further expansion at MAN for too much longer. DomyDom
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