Is Eastern Airways in Trouble?
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In the current financial climate, is there any airline not finding it tough? Some will weather the storm, some won't (and haven't). Eastern have a niche market and, if they have to consolidate or downsize to survive, then surely this is the most sensible course of action.
Don't see them much on this side of the Irish Sea so much now apart from the odd charter but nevertheless would be sad to see them go. All the best to all employees.
Don't see them much on this side of the Irish Sea so much now apart from the odd charter but nevertheless would be sad to see them go. All the best to all employees.
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Eastern have had the J41's on a very good deal from BA. I expect it must be finished by now but the leases were being susidised by a small fortune. It would have been dificult not to make money on flying them. I would expect if the BA subsidy is finished now they will be finding it much harder to make them pay and may well want out of them.
I also heard that all their flights out of NCL were grounded a few days ago, don't know why. I hope they are OK, a lot of good people there!
I also heard that all their flights out of NCL were grounded a few days ago, don't know why. I hope they are OK, a lot of good people there!
I also heard that all their flights out of NCL were grounded a few days ago, don't know why.
I recall the odd delay/canx for the usual reasons that affect everybody but comments like "all their flights...grounded" really need to be substantiated or withdrawn.
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- Which airline didn't have flights cancelled on friday in the UK? Nearly the whole country was fogged out most of the day! Newcastle was no exception.
- Many of the J41 aircraft are owned outright by Eastern, a smaller number are leased from Bae and some leased from the remenants of BA citiexpress. There appears to have been rumours to sell a few 41's recently, to fund expansion of other parts of the business, see the thread on Romania in the terms forum.
- Talk of a small number of redundancies relating to engineering staff, and flight crew at certain bases that have been closed ie Inv and Man. Engineering appears to be getting brought in house at more bases, presumably to keep a grip on costs.Sign of a well managed business to me?
- Plenty of companies interested in Scatsta contract, its secure long term work, but I would guess the oil companies involved demand a high standard of safety and reliability in return. Eastern have their feet under the table already. The onus is on competing companies to demonstrate how they could do better?
- Biggest future threat to eastern is probably an upturn in the aviation industry and staff moving for better T's and C's.
- Many of the J41 aircraft are owned outright by Eastern, a smaller number are leased from Bae and some leased from the remenants of BA citiexpress. There appears to have been rumours to sell a few 41's recently, to fund expansion of other parts of the business, see the thread on Romania in the terms forum.
- Talk of a small number of redundancies relating to engineering staff, and flight crew at certain bases that have been closed ie Inv and Man. Engineering appears to be getting brought in house at more bases, presumably to keep a grip on costs.Sign of a well managed business to me?
- Plenty of companies interested in Scatsta contract, its secure long term work, but I would guess the oil companies involved demand a high standard of safety and reliability in return. Eastern have their feet under the table already. The onus is on competing companies to demonstrate how they could do better?
- Biggest future threat to eastern is probably an upturn in the aviation industry and staff moving for better T's and C's.
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Have heard that RL wants all the remining J41's in new colours asap and up and running, as some of have been stored at HUY, awaiting C checks
Now to paint an a/c which costs money does not sound to me as if he is going to sell or hand them back.
The J41's are fully crewed but not to the point of having 4 crews per airplane as some other airlines and therefore crews are worked hard. The Saabs are possibly overcrewed at present but not massively, a lot of crews are awaiting line training due to the Flightline crews coming across
I think RL is just trimming the fat due to the downturn rather than sticking his head in the sand and hoping it goes away
Now to paint an a/c which costs money does not sound to me as if he is going to sell or hand them back.
The J41's are fully crewed but not to the point of having 4 crews per airplane as some other airlines and therefore crews are worked hard. The Saabs are possibly overcrewed at present but not massively, a lot of crews are awaiting line training due to the Flightline crews coming across
I think RL is just trimming the fat due to the downturn rather than sticking his head in the sand and hoping it goes away
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I am sure it was Tuesday morning, The J41's weren't flying. Later on in the day a Saab was seen flying. Nobody seemed to know why.
With regards to the J41 ownership. The majority of the fleet were on lease to BA citiexpress. When BA decided to drop the fleet they were left with two choices. Park them up and pay the £6 mil a year lease payments with no return, or sub lease them to Eastern for £1 mil a year. They chose the Eastern deal. This was efectively a £5 mil a year subsidy to eastern. Since then I believe Eastern have purchased a few from the states, but most of the fleet are on lease. And i am also sure the £5 mil a year subsidy must be finished by now. hey have also taken on a simulator, I think it's the old Pan Am one from St Lewis.
With regards to the J41 ownership. The majority of the fleet were on lease to BA citiexpress. When BA decided to drop the fleet they were left with two choices. Park them up and pay the £6 mil a year lease payments with no return, or sub lease them to Eastern for £1 mil a year. They chose the Eastern deal. This was efectively a £5 mil a year subsidy to eastern. Since then I believe Eastern have purchased a few from the states, but most of the fleet are on lease. And i am also sure the £5 mil a year subsidy must be finished by now. hey have also taken on a simulator, I think it's the old Pan Am one from St Lewis.
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Just because a lease was signed x years ago for aircraft, doesn't mean that when it comes up for renewal the price will be the same. Its a marketplace, prices are negiotable. I would not think there would be a bidding war on a dozen 15yr old J41's. If eastern handed them back they would probably be parked up and left to rot.
Logically the 41 fleet will be replaced, when they get too expensive to run, and a similar replacement becomes available. I don't see that happening anytime soon. What other 30 seat turboprop is still in current or very recent production? They may aquire a few more saab's who knows?
The signs of an airline in financial trouble are usually mass cancellations , crew not being paid , difficulty obtaining fuel and handling, broken down aircraft not being fixed etc. There is no sign of this happening with eastern as far as I can see.
Logically the 41 fleet will be replaced, when they get too expensive to run, and a similar replacement becomes available. I don't see that happening anytime soon. What other 30 seat turboprop is still in current or very recent production? They may aquire a few more saab's who knows?
The signs of an airline in financial trouble are usually mass cancellations , crew not being paid , difficulty obtaining fuel and handling, broken down aircraft not being fixed etc. There is no sign of this happening with eastern as far as I can see.
Fit like min?
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One thing's for sure - IF T3 are in financial difficulty, Aberdeen Airport schedules will be thrown into chaos, as well as oil industry transportation plans to the Shetland Basin!
And don't expect the BAA to be charitable either. They're too busy running a shopping centre.
And don't expect the BAA to be charitable either. They're too busy running a shopping centre.
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horsebox, I agree, when the leases came up for renewal I am sure they wouldn't be re negotiated at the same rate. I don't however think that BAE would drop from £6 mil to 1. In efect the new leases would probably be much more expensive to Eastern. I would guess that the price eastern have to pay would probably go up by a factor of about 3 or 4. I am sure you can do the sums!
I don't know much about Eastern these days, but I can only imagine that a large increase in their leasing costs, pressure from flybe competition, and the rescession, can't be making things easy. I do however hope that they are not in trouble, we could all do without any more failures.
Also, being J41 rated and coming from the north east, I look at eastern as a possible semi retirement job.
I don't know much about Eastern these days, but I can only imagine that a large increase in their leasing costs, pressure from flybe competition, and the rescession, can't be making things easy. I do however hope that they are not in trouble, we could all do without any more failures.
Also, being J41 rated and coming from the north east, I look at eastern as a possible semi retirement job.
Last edited by BALLSOUT; 5th Apr 2009 at 17:36.
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Also heard last week that the lease agreement on the J41's was a purchase lease agreement where by the aircraft are owned after so many years, I believe this is either this or next year.
puts a different complexion on things does it not
puts a different complexion on things does it not
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Wellington, If that is the case then they will belong to BA as the leases are in their name. They were sub leased to Eastern, however I would expect BA may be easier to deal with than BAE.
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Wellington, If that is the case then they will belong to BA as the leases are in their name. They were sub leased to Eastern, however I would expect BA may be easier to deal with than BAE.
Having worked in the industry, leases can be re-assigned at the same or different terms providing all parties are in agreement....................
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I fly with Eastern out of NCL regularly.
A few weeks ago, I was sat opposite a positioning J41 captain, and I asked him about what I thought was an alarming fall in passenger loads on my recent flights. His response was that while certain flights at certain times of the day were really struggling (he quoted Cardiff IIRC), overall, the operation at NCL was showing a slow but steady growth.
As a result he said he fully expected a few of the flights to be axed, or made into transit flights (my guess would be NCL-BHX-CWL, or NCL-BHX-SOU perhaps?), in order to make way for new routes.
Interestingly a new poster in departures at NCL is now advertising NCL-ABZ-OSL.
Great little airline, and one of few companies left that genuinely cares about its passengers.
RTG!
A few weeks ago, I was sat opposite a positioning J41 captain, and I asked him about what I thought was an alarming fall in passenger loads on my recent flights. His response was that while certain flights at certain times of the day were really struggling (he quoted Cardiff IIRC), overall, the operation at NCL was showing a slow but steady growth.
As a result he said he fully expected a few of the flights to be axed, or made into transit flights (my guess would be NCL-BHX-CWL, or NCL-BHX-SOU perhaps?), in order to make way for new routes.
Interestingly a new poster in departures at NCL is now advertising NCL-ABZ-OSL.
Great little airline, and one of few companies left that genuinely cares about its passengers.
RTG!
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the J41 fleet is heading for disposal?
I also heard that all their flights out of NCL were grounded a few days ago
Due respect.
Last edited by Clear_Prop; 7th Apr 2009 at 05:37. Reason: had names in wrong order ;)
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C P, You are right, it was second hand info but from someone who works and operates from the airport and I would expect they would know the difference.
Anyway, as no one else seems to know anything, I expect he is either wrong or it wasn't a problem. With regards to the J41 fleet disposal, if in fact, it is being disposed of. I would maintain that it is because the fleet is no longer being subsidised by BA, making it much more dificult to make it pay.
Anyway, as no one else seems to know anything, I expect he is either wrong or it wasn't a problem. With regards to the J41 fleet disposal, if in fact, it is being disposed of. I would maintain that it is because the fleet is no longer being subsidised by BA, making it much more dificult to make it pay.
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When you consider the amount of J41's that Eastern have on their books and how many they need, I would guess they probably have a couple of surplus aircraft. If this is the case I am not surprised that management are trying to move some on.
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Talking to an ex-colleague who now works at Eastern, it sounds like three of the J41s are heading to Romania and they are trying hard to offload more. They have up to seven in storage at any time.
There have been a number of redundancies in engineering, and redundancies in flight crew are imminent - they are apparently over-crewed after taking Flightline guys under TUPE with the Scatsta contract but also recruiting heavily at the same time. Rumours of 40-50 people to go across the company but the main cuts so far have been in engineering. A couple of senior managers have gone, contractors are being stopped and work brought in-house from outside companies.
The other rumour which has been doing the rounds - and I stress it's a rumour - is that they will pull out of schedules completely and concentrate on charters. Schedules sound to be suffering badly and over half of the flying is now charter contracts which are guaranteed cash. The first two rumours would certainly tie in with the third if the company was down-sizing before publicly announcing that schedules were to be chopped.
There have been a number of redundancies in engineering, and redundancies in flight crew are imminent - they are apparently over-crewed after taking Flightline guys under TUPE with the Scatsta contract but also recruiting heavily at the same time. Rumours of 40-50 people to go across the company but the main cuts so far have been in engineering. A couple of senior managers have gone, contractors are being stopped and work brought in-house from outside companies.
The other rumour which has been doing the rounds - and I stress it's a rumour - is that they will pull out of schedules completely and concentrate on charters. Schedules sound to be suffering badly and over half of the flying is now charter contracts which are guaranteed cash. The first two rumours would certainly tie in with the third if the company was down-sizing before publicly announcing that schedules were to be chopped.