Viking Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2008
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PW, it is a huge mistake to try to justify your own shortcomings. A lesson you should have learned all the way through Goldcrest, XL and to Viking and Kiss. Your hands were fully engaged in all of them. I know it and you know it. It is rather silly to think that everyone will forgive you by bleating your fanciful notions that you are whiter than white.
You have let down many thousands of people who relied on you.
XL was not the fault of those you named - it was your fault. Peter Owen had a good track record and was perfectly capable so how come it all went pear shaped? You were the one who finished up with a large estate which cost a lot of money. That money came from the riches of the businesses you fronted.
Clearly, you still had the wherewithal to stop the rot even if it were true - but you did nothing. Why was that? Why didn't you act, as you most certainly should have done even as dep Chairman, presumably executive or non-exec, to stop what you knew would result in a catastrophic collapse of XL. You appear to be somewhat negligent in that. Was it perhaps because you were prepared only to protect your own position.
The fact is that you have done it again. The bs you spill about Sunwing, Iraq and others is fatuous. You are protecting yourself again. And how can you work again with a man who bought the wrath of Damocles to XL? Sorry, don't believe a word you say.
Like I said, you made a huge mistake in trying to use PPRuNe to somehow feel that you could lay to rest the pitiful errors you made from day one. Many of the members of PPRuNe would have at one time or another been employed by you..................see your mistake?
You have let down many thousands of people who relied on you.
XL was not the fault of those you named - it was your fault. Peter Owen had a good track record and was perfectly capable so how come it all went pear shaped? You were the one who finished up with a large estate which cost a lot of money. That money came from the riches of the businesses you fronted.
I made a big mistake employing Peter Owen as CEO of XL and stood back whilst still the largest SH (part time dep Chairman) serving 1 years notice and basically let him and his army of consultants and so called experts destroy a business I had built since 1999 along with great people such as Steve Tomlinson and Eamonn Mullany and a superb Management Team and staff who were committed and dedicated to delivering a safe a secure operation and product second to none
The fact is that you have done it again. The bs you spill about Sunwing, Iraq and others is fatuous. You are protecting yourself again. And how can you work again with a man who bought the wrath of Damocles to XL? Sorry, don't believe a word you say.
Like I said, you made a huge mistake in trying to use PPRuNe to somehow feel that you could lay to rest the pitiful errors you made from day one. Many of the members of PPRuNe would have at one time or another been employed by you..................see your mistake?
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Phil Wyatt
That is your best excuse after all that you have done and all that has been said about you on here. HaHa.... It's no wonder we went bust... just for the record I don't believe a word of it.
Nice house by the way... How many poor sods have lost holidays to pay for that I wonder. I recon I own a few meters of that nice lawn.
While were on the topic of money any chance you could pay me what I am owed. Ta very much.
Oh and you ARE a criminal no matter how many times you try and convince yourself and others that you are not.
That is your best excuse after all that you have done and all that has been said about you on here. HaHa.... It's no wonder we went bust... just for the record I don't believe a word of it.
Nice house by the way... How many poor sods have lost holidays to pay for that I wonder. I recon I own a few meters of that nice lawn.
While were on the topic of money any chance you could pay me what I am owed. Ta very much.
Oh and you ARE a criminal no matter how many times you try and convince yourself and others that you are not.
Join Date: Feb 2009
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People start businesses to make money. Sometimes they do and sometimes the do not. Most people who start businesses invest their savings, mortgage their house, borrow heavily. If the business does well they do well, if the business goes bad they don't do well anymore, though hopefully they will have recouped their start up investment.
When businesses do well, the employees earn a wage and have some security. When businesses do badly, for whatever reason, then the employees can loose their job.
Which would you prefer - no job or a job in the hope that, over time, the company does well, that the economy picks up and that a degree of security may creep in?
Its the same in any business - look at the number of chains that have disappeared over the last few years.
However the airline business seems to be particularly fragile - a look back 20 years or so reveals several airlines disappear, for a variety of reasons, every year, some high profile - Dan Air, Air Europe, XL others less so - Highland, Ambassador, Paramount and so on and so on.
My point is that I consider it wrong to criticise people trying to start and keep a business going which provides jobs for many. Instead we should all be encouraging entrepreneurship.
When businesses do well, the employees earn a wage and have some security. When businesses do badly, for whatever reason, then the employees can loose their job.
Which would you prefer - no job or a job in the hope that, over time, the company does well, that the economy picks up and that a degree of security may creep in?
Its the same in any business - look at the number of chains that have disappeared over the last few years.
However the airline business seems to be particularly fragile - a look back 20 years or so reveals several airlines disappear, for a variety of reasons, every year, some high profile - Dan Air, Air Europe, XL others less so - Highland, Ambassador, Paramount and so on and so on.
My point is that I consider it wrong to criticise people trying to start and keep a business going which provides jobs for many. Instead we should all be encouraging entrepreneurship.
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Clareview
My point is that I consider it wrong to criticise people trying to start and keep a business going which provides jobs for many
In relation to the collapse of XL, the point is that PW by his own admission sat back and watched his company destroyed by someone else. This in my eyes is grossly irresponsible and negligent conduct and I can fully understand the anger of ex employees and customers who have suffered considerably by the collapse whilst the owner on the face of it did not.
I can therefore fully understand the concerns expressed by many people regarding the future of Viking Airways.
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Well said clareview.
I was XL for 3 years and am now at Viking, where I have been for nearly 2 years. it was extreamly sad when XL went under. I and alot of others were out of jobs and struggling. I for one am greatful that Viking came over to the UK and gave me a job. The demise of Kiss has affected us, but not to the extent that we are in trouble.. it is all speculation. I think people need to stand back and wait and see what happens before they assume the airline are in an early grave!
I was XL for 3 years and am now at Viking, where I have been for nearly 2 years. it was extreamly sad when XL went under. I and alot of others were out of jobs and struggling. I for one am greatful that Viking came over to the UK and gave me a job. The demise of Kiss has affected us, but not to the extent that we are in trouble.. it is all speculation. I think people need to stand back and wait and see what happens before they assume the airline are in an early grave!
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Not in trouble?
wasn't there a letter from Tadjeran circulated already on 2 aug?
(Tadjeran, by the way has built himself an equally expensive mansion in Porto Rafti, outside Athens)
a letter where the downsizing of the airline was blamed on Goldtrail going bust.
the same stating that Magnus Stephensson, Halldor Sigurdsson and Phil Lintott Clarke was to take control of the company.
anyone can see the connection with XL and PW!
if the downsizing was required by loss of Goldtrail, with about 20% of the Viking flights, what will the fall of Kiss then mean, with almost 80%????
(Tadjeran, by the way has built himself an equally expensive mansion in Porto Rafti, outside Athens)
a letter where the downsizing of the airline was blamed on Goldtrail going bust.
the same stating that Magnus Stephensson, Halldor Sigurdsson and Phil Lintott Clarke was to take control of the company.
anyone can see the connection with XL and PW!
if the downsizing was required by loss of Goldtrail, with about 20% of the Viking flights, what will the fall of Kiss then mean, with almost 80%????
Aviator forever,
Yes there was a letter circulated after goldtrails went bust.
After Kiss went bust two more letters were circulated to the staff via the company intranet, and all staff have now been contacted by their managers and know what is happening to them.
As PW has posted on here already it is no secret that three aircraft ae being returned to sunwings early.
Bristol and Manchester bases have closed and sadly most of cabin crew have been made redundant from those bases. Some of those from Manchester were permanent staff, those from Bristol were on temporary contracts. The permanent cabin crew from Gatwick still have jobs.
The pilots on summer contracts have had their contracts terminated about two weeks early, and in the meantime have been rebased to Gatwick and offered either a payment to find accomodation there or Hotel accomodation at Vikings expense when they are flying. They have been told that there may be some work in Iraq, but they have not had their contracts terminated for refusing to go there as was suggested in one of the posts above.
No permanent flight crew have been made redundant, although those from Bristol and Manchester have had to return to Gatwick.
All that is information available to me as an employee. It isn't secret.
Yes there is a similarity to Xl - the owner of Viking lives in a big house. If I owned an airline I would want to live in a big house as well. If I was clever enough to own an airline instead of just working for one I would also make sure it was a limited company so that if it went bust I could keep my big house - but then I would do the same if I was a plumber or a baker.
But there is a big difference between Viking and Xl. Viking is still trading, it is reducing in size but all its employees are aware of that. They are not finding out that it has gone bust when they get to work to find the receivers in the crew room to take their ID passes from them. Viking is a small airline with six aircraft (Viking Hellas is a seperate company with three more). It isn't the UKs third largest leisure group apparently financed by smoke and mirrors.
Hopefully any of vikings passengers reading this forum won't be deceived into thinking that conjecture based on a few people hating Phil Wyatt is reality and they will not have flights next week or next month. Kiss went bust, not Viking airlines.
Yes there was a letter circulated after goldtrails went bust.
After Kiss went bust two more letters were circulated to the staff via the company intranet, and all staff have now been contacted by their managers and know what is happening to them.
As PW has posted on here already it is no secret that three aircraft ae being returned to sunwings early.
Bristol and Manchester bases have closed and sadly most of cabin crew have been made redundant from those bases. Some of those from Manchester were permanent staff, those from Bristol were on temporary contracts. The permanent cabin crew from Gatwick still have jobs.
The pilots on summer contracts have had their contracts terminated about two weeks early, and in the meantime have been rebased to Gatwick and offered either a payment to find accomodation there or Hotel accomodation at Vikings expense when they are flying. They have been told that there may be some work in Iraq, but they have not had their contracts terminated for refusing to go there as was suggested in one of the posts above.
No permanent flight crew have been made redundant, although those from Bristol and Manchester have had to return to Gatwick.
All that is information available to me as an employee. It isn't secret.
Yes there is a similarity to Xl - the owner of Viking lives in a big house. If I owned an airline I would want to live in a big house as well. If I was clever enough to own an airline instead of just working for one I would also make sure it was a limited company so that if it went bust I could keep my big house - but then I would do the same if I was a plumber or a baker.
But there is a big difference between Viking and Xl. Viking is still trading, it is reducing in size but all its employees are aware of that. They are not finding out that it has gone bust when they get to work to find the receivers in the crew room to take their ID passes from them. Viking is a small airline with six aircraft (Viking Hellas is a seperate company with three more). It isn't the UKs third largest leisure group apparently financed by smoke and mirrors.
Hopefully any of vikings passengers reading this forum won't be deceived into thinking that conjecture based on a few people hating Phil Wyatt is reality and they will not have flights next week or next month. Kiss went bust, not Viking airlines.
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Hi Affretage,
i don't know, that's why i am asking. it's seems like that at the moment viking will operate the Iraq's flights during the winter but not other operations.
if the T/O are returning the deposits that means a lot.
i don't know, that's why i am asking. it's seems like that at the moment viking will operate the Iraq's flights during the winter but not other operations.
if the T/O are returning the deposits that means a lot.
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skywalker
When tour operators are booking their programmes with an airline they are asked to put down a big deposit, refundable at the end of the season. We are approaching the end of the season which means VIK have to refund all that money. Most smaller airlines use deposits to fund their operations and if they haven't made a profit, there won't be any money to refund the tour operators. Hence, interesting times ahead.....
When tour operators are booking their programmes with an airline they are asked to put down a big deposit, refundable at the end of the season. We are approaching the end of the season which means VIK have to refund all that money. Most smaller airlines use deposits to fund their operations and if they haven't made a profit, there won't be any money to refund the tour operators. Hence, interesting times ahead.....
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Not very interesting actually, Affretage.
The likes of you, TSR2 and other lamebrains seem to want to talk Viking out of business on a public forum, irrespective of the damage caused to employees' livelihoods. And neither of you seem to be professional pilots.
I know this won't stop either of you, but felt morally and duty-bound to say something.
The likes of you, TSR2 and other lamebrains seem to want to talk Viking out of business on a public forum, irrespective of the damage caused to employees' livelihoods. And neither of you seem to be professional pilots.
I know this won't stop either of you, but felt morally and duty-bound to say something.
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Mr Bloggs
I suggest you should read and UNDERSTAND posts fully before slinging childish comments like lamebrains.
My comments have been directed at the irresponsible actions that led to the demise of XL AIRWAYS as admitted by the owner. I never have and never will, wish anything but success for Viking.
Does this quote from my post 341 make my position clear
My comments have been directed at the irresponsible actions that led to the demise of XL AIRWAYS as admitted by the owner. I never have and never will, wish anything but success for Viking.
Does this quote from my post 341 make my position clear
then you sir, must personally shoulder TOTAL responsibility for the reported £100 million debt that took your company under, the misery of unemployment for thousands of your employees and not to mention the tens of thousands of decent hard working people who lost their holidays.
Last edited by TSR2; 18th Sep 2010 at 09:33.
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Hi Affretage,
thanx for the info, I know how the TTOO works. Anyway is a bad situation for Viking.
Mr. Bloggs, I don't want Viking going bust as I have a very good friend working for them.
the problem is that their own staff don't have much information about viking situation (people on forums know more than them). I've heard that today 2 a/c are flying to South America and on Dec 2 more will operate Sunwings flights. Supposedly they are delivering onther one to the lessor, then....... How many a/c will operate for Viking for the winter?
thanx for the info, I know how the TTOO works. Anyway is a bad situation for Viking.
Mr. Bloggs, I don't want Viking going bust as I have a very good friend working for them.
the problem is that their own staff don't have much information about viking situation (people on forums know more than them). I've heard that today 2 a/c are flying to South America and on Dec 2 more will operate Sunwings flights. Supposedly they are delivering onther one to the lessor, then....... How many a/c will operate for Viking for the winter?
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Mr Bloggs
You can stop your rant right now. This is history repeating itself. Not looking good, unless the icelander will put in some more money; PW won't be getting his wallet out in a hurry.
Skywalker
Apart from a few HRG and SSH, VIK looks to be only operating the usual low yield ethnic cr@p to Iraq. Kissflight's programme was the heart and soul of the machine. No wonder they created Viking Hellas (Lifeboat) Airlines ? It's been well planned, just like the acquisition of VIK took place long before XL failed. I am not surprised that the independent sector is losing confidence in these gentlemen and their ventures. Seems for them it's always been a case of 'nothing ventured, everything gained'.
You can stop your rant right now. This is history repeating itself. Not looking good, unless the icelander will put in some more money; PW won't be getting his wallet out in a hurry.
Skywalker
Apart from a few HRG and SSH, VIK looks to be only operating the usual low yield ethnic cr@p to Iraq. Kissflight's programme was the heart and soul of the machine. No wonder they created Viking Hellas (Lifeboat) Airlines ? It's been well planned, just like the acquisition of VIK took place long before XL failed. I am not surprised that the independent sector is losing confidence in these gentlemen and their ventures. Seems for them it's always been a case of 'nothing ventured, everything gained'.
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Affretage,
What's your opinion about the Iraq flights? i mean if the give plenty benefits to keep the company running...
does anyone know whats happening with the crew? if they are only operating with a few flights a lot of them will be fired
What's your opinion about the Iraq flights? i mean if the give plenty benefits to keep the company running...
does anyone know whats happening with the crew? if they are only operating with a few flights a lot of them will be fired
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Cabin Crewe
Ethnic cr@p is just that. Whether these flights got to Pristina, Erbil or Somalia they generate cr@p seat rates. The pax are usually refugees and guest workers who can ill afford air travel. VIK are selling flights to Iraq for as little as 990 SEK (less than £100) one way. Need I elaborate any further on 'crap' ?
Skywalker
Re Iraq flights please see above. With VIK Hellas already set up, you can all guess what will happen to Viking Airlines AB. As I said earlier, it's XL all over again. Different year, same people.
Ethnic cr@p is just that. Whether these flights got to Pristina, Erbil or Somalia they generate cr@p seat rates. The pax are usually refugees and guest workers who can ill afford air travel. VIK are selling flights to Iraq for as little as 990 SEK (less than £100) one way. Need I elaborate any further on 'crap' ?
Skywalker
Re Iraq flights please see above. With VIK Hellas already set up, you can all guess what will happen to Viking Airlines AB. As I said earlier, it's XL all over again. Different year, same people.