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Old 7th Jan 2017, 13:41
  #8501 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
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Originally Posted by chaps1954 View Post
Very much doubt NCL could support 2 carriers to MAD and RYR would do everything it can to stop the likes of Iberia Express which is only a small airline in reality
If you'd asked BHX if they would have 2 carriers, let alone 3, on MAD a few years ago they'd probably have looked at you as though you were daft...but I do agree the two regions are very different.

When you're looking at business traffic connecting through Madrid to South America, frequency probably isn't as as vital; timing - to connect with as many onward flights as possible, with minimum transit time is more important.

Moving on from MAD, I would have thought FRA minimum 2 x daily ought to be top of the wishlist, and I'm surprised that NCL hasn't got that yet - even once daily. If not FRA, then MUC surely.
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Old 7th Jan 2017, 13:50
  #8502 (permalink)  
 
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Moving on from MAD, I would have thought FRA minimum 2 x daily ought to be top of the wishlist, and I'm surprised that NCL hasn't got that yet - even once daily. If not FRA, then MUC surely.
One of the problems the United New York service had was the lack of Star Alliance frequent flyers, with the regions big spenders tied into the other alliances. Slots is usually quoted as an issue for FRA, but this is probably also an issue.

Anyway, we are pretty well served for hubs if you're going east.
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Old 7th Jan 2017, 14:11
  #8503 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
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A Munich link is a possibility, but it would probably be a seasonal Eurowings connection rather than LH or LH Cityline. I can't see FRA happening anytime soon due to the airport being slot restrained.

NCL is pretty well connected with Star Alliance: SAS to CPH and by proxy to BRU with BMI given that SN codeshares.

I honestly can't see NCL getting any other full service carriers in the near future. Ryanair, Eurowings and potentially Vueling will open up the majority of new routes over the next few years.
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Old 7th Jan 2017, 14:42
  #8504 (permalink)  
 
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Must admit, I'll be surprised if Ryanair last long on the Madrid route. It's obviously pitched at leisure travellers - NCL to MAD rather than the other way round - and Madrid can be very unpleasantly hot in Summer. Does it run all year or just summer only? Oslo and Milan didn't last long and I suspect Madrid will be the same. Maybe once they sling their hook there'll be an opportunity for Iberia. But even then, I'm not convinced there's a massive market from the North East to Latin America. Sorry to be negative...
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Old 7th Jan 2017, 15:05
  #8505 (permalink)  
 
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The other thing to consider is that IAG are looking at a long haul low cost carrier based in BCN or MAD and Vueling seem to be getting their act together. This would mean more connecting flights from the regions to fill the A330's, so don't be surprised if you see additional flights from NCL in the future.
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Old 7th Jan 2017, 15:15
  #8506 (permalink)  
 
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I would point out that the Ryanair flights to Oslo and Milan were not actually to those airports but operated when they used seriously far out of town airports. Maybe they would have done a lot better if the flights had been operated to the actual cities.
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Old 7th Jan 2017, 15:31
  #8507 (permalink)  
 
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Very true, Jamesair. Bergamo is relatively simple to get to from Milan (about as far as Malpensa but with a bus rather than rail connection), but I've heard that Sandefjord is a serious ball-ache to get to from Oslo. Oslo is one route that I am really surprised doesn't operate from Newcastle these days. I went there on the good old Braathens 737 back in 1998 and it was full.
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Old 7th Jan 2017, 18:24
  #8508 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
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I agree with the comments about Norwegian not launching US services from NCL but would love them to introduce Oslo.
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Old 7th Jan 2017, 18:27
  #8509 (permalink)  
 
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I took the bus once from Oslo to Sandefjord and I can confirm that it is a serious 'ball-ache' of a journey and seems to go on forever, last time I took it was in the evening so it was dark, I had fallen asleep and when I woke up and I had to ask another passenger was this the bus going to Sandefjord as we still had nearly n hour to go, never will I use that airport again to get to and from Oslo.
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Old 7th Jan 2017, 18:56
  #8510 (permalink)  
 
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Once Norwegian started flying between EDI and Oslo proper, Ryanair cut back and then abandoned the route. I would have thought that NCL has a good chance, given the long-standing links.

Last edited by inOban; 7th Jan 2017 at 20:01. Reason: Correcting typo.
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Old 7th Jan 2017, 19:56
  #8511 (permalink)  
 
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RYR dropped Oslo in March 2007, so potential operators have had a long time to think about it.
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Old 7th Jan 2017, 21:40
  #8512 (permalink)  
 
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On a side, one thing id like your opinion on is BA routes out of the Toon, could they make any work most likely a long hauler?
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Old 7th Jan 2017, 21:47
  #8513 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2013
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There's little point in me trying to structure a counter argument because I've done it enough times to know it'll be shrugged off again by the "experts" but there are a few things I want to say

I'm confident Ryanair will make Madrid work, I could see maybe 1 of the Polish routes faltering but I'm sure they'll see growth in that area and from NCL in general. Although the option of connections in MAD would be nice, it's probably limited. Had Heathrow's 3rd runway gone the other way, I think we would have seen IAG starting to use MAD and DUB more for UK regional flights.

I'm sure we'll get Iceland one day be it Icelandair, Wow, easyjet or Thomson. Maybe Jet2 or Ryanair if they open it. There's no service between Manchester and Edinburgh.

It's been said before on here, our Bergamo flights went out full, they did well, but then Ryanair got Manchester slots, so we lost it. They started MAN-BGY the week after they pulled NCL-BGY with the same days of operation, timings etc. An all too common trend from here.

Re: Star Alliance loyalty in the North east, when I flew NCL-DUS-NCL on my way to China, (seriously, always look at LH from NCL on long haul if you need to travel, they have amazing deals, I paid 290 to Shanghai), on both flights I heard more than 1 conversation about people keeping up their silver/gold star alliance status.

If you think about it, there are very few options for non stop transatlantic flights currently. The vast majority are on US legacies, which is why it's difficult for airports like NCL to cut the mustard. When that changes, we will stand more of a chance. Why is it bad that people want a transatlantic service?

Manchester and moreso Edinburgh are going to be NCL's main problem, or downfall in the next few years. Airlines and passengers are fickle...

NCL has been behind UK growth for a lot of years, we're a strong and established airport and as far as I'm aware we are profitable. That must be a good thing... And hopefully means over the next few years there'll be room to take some measured risks, offer airlines nice incentives, grow markets and further establish our passenger base. I'd like to see better connections from Cumbria, Teesside, Northumberland etc.
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Old 8th Jan 2017, 02:31
  #8514 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
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Thanks to the Metro connection to the airport it can tap into a fairly large market, access to an airport is important.

Let the volatility and uncertainty of the UK economy post brexit calm before any airline realistically looks at services from NCL.

Is there a market though? That's the one that makes me wonder. Last time I flew from Newcastle there was one passenger connecting onto America (Los Angeles) in Dublin from our Aer Lingus Regional flight. That's not exactly alot.
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Old 8th Jan 2017, 04:32
  #8515 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
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"......access to an airport is important".
----------------

It's still annoying that there is no public transport to NCL in time to check in for the busy 6am-7am flight period.
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Old 8th Jan 2017, 06:57
  #8516 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
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On a side, one thing id like your opinion on is BA routes out of the Toon, could they make any work most likely a long hauler?
BA have shown little interest in the regions for many years, though there has been noise about MAN recently. Never say never but...

It's been said before on here, our Bergamo flights went out full, they did well, but then Ryanair got Manchester slots, so we lost it. They started MAN-BGY the week after they pulled NCL-BGY with the same days of operation, timings etc. An all too common trend from here.
Which would suggest that it wasn't a strong performer.

Re: Star Alliance loyalty in the North east, when I flew NCL-DUS-NCL on my way to China, (seriously, always look at LH from NCL on long haul if you need to travel, they have amazing deals, I paid 290 to Shanghai), on both flights I heard more than 1 conversation about people keeping up their silver/gold star alliance status.
The Star Alliance offering from DUS isn't great (Newark, Tokyo, Singapore?) - so presumably need onward connections to MUC or FRA? Not very competitive against single change options from LHR, AMS, CDG, DXB. SAS are often cheap, but the connections aren't great (which again suggests that we are mainly point-to-point or European feed, rather than long haul)

If you think about it, there are very few options for non stop transatlantic flights currently. The vast majority are on US legacies, which is why it's difficult for airports like NCL to cut the mustard. When that changes, we will stand more of a chance. Why is it bad that people want a transatlantic service?
Agreed - but if not on a US legacy, you lose the onward connectivity and it becomes more point-to-point, which reduces the size of the market. Nothing wrong with wanting a transatlantic service, but there are suspicions that it became a "holy grail" for the airport, taking up a disproportionate amount of management time which could have been better used on less glamorous but more attainable targets

I'd like to see better connections from Cumbria, Teesside, Northumberland etc.
Agreed - but this is the airports main problem, its hinterland/catchment area is small, mainly rural or poor in comparison with other UK regions
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Old 8th Jan 2017, 20:38
  #8517 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Lets be absolutely serious BA will never operate long haul out of NCL they don't have a history of doing so out of the airport and I am sure there would be other airports in the UK they would look to for long haul way before they even considered NCL.

Even if it's taken a long time for BA to rethink long haul out MAN as yet they are still rumours plus BA have previously operated long haul out of the airport not in the case of NCL.
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Old 8th Jan 2017, 21:17
  #8518 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Newcastle
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I think it will take a massive cultural shift in BA (and maybe also in our London-centric British society as a whole, but that's a jetblastish issue...) before BA launch transatlantic services from any regional airport, let alone NCL. I'd love to see it happen but I fear not.
On a positive note (I can be positive occasionally ) it looks like Ryanair starts in March. Springtime and Autumn are generally pleasant in Madrid. If some of the small-c conservative North East public can be convinced that Castile is indeed more interesting than the Costas, which it certainly is to me anyway, then it could well work.
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Old 8th Jan 2017, 21:53
  #8519 (permalink)  
 
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I like to fly and drive in Spain so more airports is good news, you don't have to start and end your trip on the coast.
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Old 8th Jan 2017, 21:55
  #8520 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
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Handy link for trips to watch Real Madrid aswell.
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