MANCHESTER - 7
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: manchester
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Simonchowder
I think you may be wrong there, edmond64 could clarify, but while a/p fire service may be there to deal with initial problem, and are equipped to do so, it in no way means they are any less professional. As far as I am aware their job is to contain fire and deal with immediate threat threat to life until other units arrive, that is not a lesser skill but a different one. They should be considered pros along with their non-airport colleagues. Remember, these are the guys who will enter the burning a/c if need be and assist evac. Would you or Smudge do that?
Now perhaps Smudge would like to ponder that while he gets back to his de-icing, baggage handling, floor sweeping, whatever. I make that assumption as they are hardly intelectually challenging roles.
Now perhaps Smudge would like to ponder that while he gets back to his de-icing, baggage handling, floor sweeping, whatever. I make that assumption as they are hardly intelectually challenging roles.
Join Date: Apr 2000
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We queried the temperature on final, -11c quoted.
On rollout, we showed -9c, so not too bad.
Got to my car and it was -7c, dropped to -8c around the Trafford Centre, rose dramatically by the poo farm, then dropped again
-4c over the tops and -6c in 'Arrergate.
G & T cool though
On rollout, we showed -9c, so not too bad.
Got to my car and it was -7c, dropped to -8c around the Trafford Centre, rose dramatically by the poo farm, then dropped again
-4c over the tops and -6c in 'Arrergate.
G & T cool though
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: WILMSLOW
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-16 in Styal, which is right on top of the airport.I really dont think the Airport and surrounding areas have ever seen temperatures so low.
As for the 'not accepting divs' scenario ? Well done MAPLC another spectacular own goal, they obviously dont need the money........!
As for the 'not accepting divs' scenario ? Well done MAPLC another spectacular own goal, they obviously dont need the money........!
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Manchester
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I dont think diverts make much money, all that is in it for the airport authority is the commission on the handling, fuel uplift and the departure / landing fee. The PAX if offloaded will be whisked straight through the terminal and wont spend any money. I would suggest deicing vacant stands properly to accommodate them would burn up that income.
So in these conditions its probably more cost effective to turn the diverts away. Remember the fiasco with the KLM MD11 a couple of weeks back ? multiply that by say 10 diverts and you have a god almighty mess that the Airport PR people would prefer to avoid. So in my opinion probably more trouble than they are worth.
So in these conditions its probably more cost effective to turn the diverts away. Remember the fiasco with the KLM MD11 a couple of weeks back ? multiply that by say 10 diverts and you have a god almighty mess that the Airport PR people would prefer to avoid. So in my opinion probably more trouble than they are worth.
I really dont think the Airport and surrounding areas have ever seen temperatures so low.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: LEEK
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I think you may be wrong there, edmond64 could clarify, but while a/p fire service may be there to deal with initial problem, and are equipped to do so, it in no way means they are any less professional. As far as I am aware their job is to contain fire and deal with immediate threat threat to life until other units arrive, that is not a lesser skill but a different one. They should be considered pros along with their non-airport colleagues. Remember, these are the guys who will enter the burning a/c if need be and assist evac. Would you or Smudge do that?
Also there is an overlap, a secondary role for the AP fire service is to provide cover for the whole estate(terminal, hangars etc..) For small incidents they will attend and then hand it over to the LAFB as their main priority is the airfield. So dont knock them, they dont recieve the same amount of calls as the LAFB (WHICH IS A GOOD THING) but one day you may thank them!!!
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Having had the services of the MAN Airport Fire Team quite recently for a situation that I will not elucidate on further, I am appalled at the comments made by some posters on here.
I know not if they are commercial pilots, if they are then they should be ashamed. Because the one day they put out the call, they will expect MANFIRE to be there, primed and ready. They will expect them to pull them out of the poo where possible and then meet at the Romper for a celebratory tipple.
If the posters are spotters and simmers, could you please talk about things that you may know about, like numbers of rivets and tail registrations!
No, the Fire Service at the airport are NOT the 'normal' fire service, nor are they meant to be. They are however all firepersons with experience from 'normal' fire services. And they train for a specific set of scenarios that hopefully will not be needed.
Frankly, I am ashamed that anybody linked to the airport has started a debate like this. Please go back to discussing how many new routes to Entebbe might/might not be starting!
I know not if they are commercial pilots, if they are then they should be ashamed. Because the one day they put out the call, they will expect MANFIRE to be there, primed and ready. They will expect them to pull them out of the poo where possible and then meet at the Romper for a celebratory tipple.
If the posters are spotters and simmers, could you please talk about things that you may know about, like numbers of rivets and tail registrations!
No, the Fire Service at the airport are NOT the 'normal' fire service, nor are they meant to be. They are however all firepersons with experience from 'normal' fire services. And they train for a specific set of scenarios that hopefully will not be needed.
Frankly, I am ashamed that anybody linked to the airport has started a debate like this. Please go back to discussing how many new routes to Entebbe might/might not be starting!
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Well said sir, a guy that I used to work with was one of the firemen involved in the rescue of pax from the Airtours B737 a few years back and as far as I am concerned is/was a hero and went far further than the call of duty.
Ian
Ian
Join Date: Oct 2006
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ManofMan
If you wish to get personal, then by all means carry on old chap. Sticks and stones and all that.
Sorry if you don't like my description but unfortunately there are plenty of people on here that fit that description exactly.
Grow up!
Signed - A happy safe chimp
If you wish to get personal, then by all means carry on old chap. Sticks and stones and all that.
Sorry if you don't like my description but unfortunately there are plenty of people on here that fit that description exactly.
Grow up!
Signed - A happy safe chimp
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Manchester
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If you wish to get personal, then by all means carry on old chap. Sticks and stones and all that.
Sorry if you don't like my description but unfortunately there are plenty of people on here that fit that description exactly.
Grow up!
Signed - A happy safe chimp
Sorry old bean but I think you actually started the personal bit taking a swipe as you did, of course you are going to back up the Fire team, as you said they got you out of a sticky one. That however does not mean that everyone should share your enthusiasm, thats why we have freedom of speech in blighty, and it certainly does not give you the right to come on here and take a swipe a "spotters and simmers".
Sorry if you don't like my description but unfortunately there are plenty of people on here that fit that description exactly.
Grow up!
Signed - A happy safe chimp
Sorry old bean but I think you actually started the personal bit taking a swipe as you did, of course you are going to back up the Fire team, as you said they got you out of a sticky one. That however does not mean that everyone should share your enthusiasm, thats why we have freedom of speech in blighty, and it certainly does not give you the right to come on here and take a swipe a "spotters and simmers".
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Quite right, i know the majority of spotters/simmers are odd balls but were British for gods sake and every British chap has the right to collect aircraft/locomotive reg numbers or play at being a pilot, or a train driver for that matter if he so wishes .
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Though operating from MAN has been a nightmare in my opinion for the last few months, I'm pretty sure it's absurd to liken it's fire service to "Dad's Army". As a newbie F/O on a fairly reliable aircraft I have not yet experienced a real engine fire (or burning of any part of the a/c for that matter), but I would be EXTREMELY shocked if the fire service of a large, busy international airport such as MAN couldn't be trusted to do their job properly. I suspect (though I don't agree with his way of putting it) that flyinthesky is somewhat correct - in that such writings are conjecture.
Please someone tell me I'm right - otherwise my job just got a whole lot scarier!
1234
Please someone tell me I'm right - otherwise my job just got a whole lot scarier!
1234
Join Date: Oct 2006
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I really don't mind if people think I was having a go at a particular section of society, but the problem with freedom of speech is that conjecture creeps in and people with a little knowledge start to make big statements.
I am entirely happy for people to count rivets/ collect tail nos/ belly button gaze, however those same people should be very careful making wide sweeping ill-informed assertions about something they probably don't know that much about. Just because the fire service aren't seen an awful lot isn't exactly a bad thing. Personally, my pax don't see me handling an engine fire/ shutdown a whole lot either (thankfully). But it DOESN'T mean that I can't if I had to. And sitting in an office/ viewing park or wherever will never qualify you to judge. But it doesn't stop me waving at you as I go by either!
CJ1234 - rest easy, The guys are swift, thorough and know exactly what they are doing. They are also one of the friendliest bunch of people on the field.
I think the thread can return to the normal airfield bashing now
Sometimes, the commercial plane drivers just get a little bit fed up with assumptions being made
I am entirely happy for people to count rivets/ collect tail nos/ belly button gaze, however those same people should be very careful making wide sweeping ill-informed assertions about something they probably don't know that much about. Just because the fire service aren't seen an awful lot isn't exactly a bad thing. Personally, my pax don't see me handling an engine fire/ shutdown a whole lot either (thankfully). But it DOESN'T mean that I can't if I had to. And sitting in an office/ viewing park or wherever will never qualify you to judge. But it doesn't stop me waving at you as I go by either!
CJ1234 - rest easy, The guys are swift, thorough and know exactly what they are doing. They are also one of the friendliest bunch of people on the field.
I think the thread can return to the normal airfield bashing now
Sometimes, the commercial plane drivers just get a little bit fed up with assumptions being made
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: cheshire
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why are there so many moaners about snow clearance in this part of the world. Gatwick has been closed on and off for the last two days ,go on their airfield forum site not one complaint, even though some of their problems are similer to ours, lack of stands and anti/deicing fluid.
Where I sit in my warm tower I have seen a lot of people working their socks of in the coldest of weather -12 this morning at 9.00am to keep the airfield going. These are freak weather conditions so all I can say to you moaners out there is give it a rest you are becoming pretty boring.
I love doing gmc
Where I sit in my warm tower I have seen a lot of people working their socks of in the coldest of weather -12 this morning at 9.00am to keep the airfield going. These are freak weather conditions so all I can say to you moaners out there is give it a rest you are becoming pretty boring.
I love doing gmc
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Could everybody just calm down please. In a way I kicked this whole thing when Smudgethecat made a comment about the "Trumpton fire brigade" finally being seen to be doing something when involved in snow clearing and I responded as I thought he was an absolute tw@t with no idea as to what a/p firemen did. He compounded it by a further post. I was annoyed that he/she posted with all appearance of an a/p employee. I still think he/she is a tw@t. See rest of thread.
I am not a pilot, simply ex-RAF aircraft tech so know what these guys do, sort of. I have also been known to twiddle a joystick now and again. What I am trying to say is, if you do not understand the function of one part of a/p personnel do not take verbal pot shots at hem. I notice that Smudge seems to be keeping his head down, so he should, but please don't have a go at others, let the spotters spot and the simmers sim, as long as they don't start insulting we should not.
If you happen to know Smudge perhaps you could identify to the "Trumpton fire brigade", I am sure they can educate him better than any us can.
Manofman -
Would you like to state why that statement brings your reply, it is conditional. As you did not post re firemen it does not affect you unless you are self concious about your pastime/hobby. As an aside, chimps are very intelligent and have been known to be fascinated by objects flying overhead.
I am not a pilot, simply ex-RAF aircraft tech so know what these guys do, sort of. I have also been known to twiddle a joystick now and again. What I am trying to say is, if you do not understand the function of one part of a/p personnel do not take verbal pot shots at hem. I notice that Smudge seems to be keeping his head down, so he should, but please don't have a go at others, let the spotters spot and the simmers sim, as long as they don't start insulting we should not.
If you happen to know Smudge perhaps you could identify to the "Trumpton fire brigade", I am sure they can educate him better than any us can.
Manofman -
If the posters are spotters and simmers, could you please talk about things that you may know about, like numbers of rivets and tail registrations!
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Spotters
flyinthesky, whilst you have just as much right as everybody else to vent your anger on this forum, please lay off the spotters.
I say this as a spotter of nearly 30 years. I think you will find that most spotters are well informed about the work of airlines, airports etc.
I have nothing but respect for the firefighters and yes ok pilots
Yes I'm an idiot to stand on the mound on the coldest of days, but there is something about those tins that you fly that has kept me hooked for the last 30 years and could it not be true that the very people that got you so angry are from within the aviation industry.
Last point. Real spotters don't wave...
E.F
I say this as a spotter of nearly 30 years. I think you will find that most spotters are well informed about the work of airlines, airports etc.
I have nothing but respect for the firefighters and yes ok pilots
Yes I'm an idiot to stand on the mound on the coldest of days, but there is something about those tins that you fly that has kept me hooked for the last 30 years and could it not be true that the very people that got you so angry are from within the aviation industry.
Last point. Real spotters don't wave...
E.F
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Manchester Dec & 2009 Traffic
Pax Dec 09 - 1,103,836 down 12.87%
Movements Dec 09 - 11,014 down 15.48%
Freight Dec 09 - 9,412 up 3.45%
Pax 2009 total - 18,838,733 down 12.00%
Movements 2009 total - 172,485 down 15.10%
Movements Dec 09 - 11,014 down 15.48%
Freight Dec 09 - 9,412 up 3.45%
Pax 2009 total - 18,838,733 down 12.00%
Movements 2009 total - 172,485 down 15.10%