MANCHESTER - 7

[one post only!]

But LHR27C I thought the big LOCO's were also posting a profit at the moment?? They are expecting to lose money next year but then so are BA. Both totally different business models are struggling at the moment! Like all others BA are doing what they need to do to survive and as you say, you certainly can’t blame them. Batten down the hatches, go to were you make the most money (LHR for LH) or in this environment lose the least. Wait for the other airlines to haemorrhage money quicker, go bust and then expand out afterwards.

Do you ever think MAN could in the future be a big base for a couple of big loco's, the remaining charters and then find some (British registered) LH returning? Or do you think that the withdrawal to LHR will be so complete they will never move back?

[AUTOGLIDE]

Aside from the loss of jobs issue for those unfortunately involved, does anyone really care if they come back? The only loss really is BMI simply because they are a good longhaul airline and better to fly with to ORD than AAL (in my opinion) but it's hardly the end of the world. BA is no loss, they're a joke, like the Barnum and Bailey of the sky. If you want to go the the US get on one of the numerous US carriers, for Europe get on one of the even more numerous European carriers or a low-co. For the East/Mid-East get on one of the numerous excellent Asian/Middle Eastern carriers. If you're after a charter, then book on one of the numerous charter companies. See the pattern...
Now, anything else going on apart from this boring old toss and some posters from the deep south with some kind of MAN forum obsession?

[Vuelo]

VS looking at upping BGI service, announcement due soon. Obviously linked to BD pull-out.

VS Holidays were very reliant on BD Caribbean services.

[spannersatcx]

Quote:
Originally Posted by spannersatcx
Never scheduled for March 09. Possible earliest date is Sept 09.

The source most people are getting this from clearly states March 09 Bloomberg.com: Canada

I spoke to someone in Air China and he told me maybe September. We shall see.

[spannersatcx]

VS looking at upping BGI service, announcement due soon. Obviously linked to BD pull-out.

VS Holidays were very reliant on BD Caribbean services.

VS are withdrawing one of their services from March I believe, this is to allow rolling D checks on the 744, so 1 less a/c in the fleet for a while, each check is around 6 weeks, no spare capacity.

[Vuelo]

They can lease a/c, you know. The 744 is too big for the MAN BGI market anyway.

[StoneyBridge Radar]

They can lease a/c, you know. The 744 is too big for the MAN BGI market anyway.

...and do you remember the furore it created when they put a Martinair 767 on the MCO run. The only thing close to the Virgin brand was the name on the fin.

I'm not sure VS would want to go and tarnish their reputation in the regions a second time by going down that route again; but funnier things have happened recently, so who knows....

[jubilee]

Just slightly different. Looking for 2 flight seats LHR/MAN---PMI
12 August 2009, 14 days. BMI from LHR. £138.00. 32" seat pitch, no bag charge, no check in charge.

BMI BABY from MAN £164.88. 29" seat pitch, bags and check in charge £26.96,
seat £6.96 each way.
Who says loco does not pay.
Jubilee

[DAr19]

PMI from MAN

Perhaps I am mistaken, but I believe that there are several airlines operating this route that could be consulted if one was trying to find the lowest price.

[Ringwayman]

I don't think Martinair's operation caused too much of a flutter, given that it only operated for 1 winter only. THe consternation was caused around 2001 when VS pulled their own aircraft out of MAN and replaced it with an Air Atlanta 747-300 without telling travel agents what they were doing; the travel agents were trying to flog amenties on board an aircraft which was never destined to operate on the route for the whole of the peak summer period.

As for VS 787s, I can't see them effectively operating stretched out W patterns out of LGW as they currently do with the 747; the news that they are seeking interim lift of 12 aircraft also came again with the notion that they are intending to operate them out of LHR, LGW and MAN. LGW may have some purely on the "thinner" leisure routes with the 744s (and their replacements) operating the bulk of the LGW services, A340-300 routes out of LHR will probably go the way of the 787. MAN is more suited for having 787s based operating the pulled BD leisure routes and affording a greater degree of profitabilty to MCO (with perhaps greater frequency?). I would like to think VS would also consider the prospects of non-bucket and spade routes as I'm sure if they offer the right config (unlike certain airlines), they'd get themselves onto a winner.

[Skipness One Echo]

I would like to think VS would also consider the prospects of non-bucket and spade routes as I'm sure if they offer the right config (unlike certain airlines), they'd get themselves onto a winner.

The A330 and the B767-300 have been on the market for years. One has to ask WHY they haven't already done this in good times and would do so as the UK heads into full blown recession. Perhaps BA and BMI were making too much money (!)

[DAr19]

True Skipness, but the BA BMI model was somewhat different to how VS might operate.

[Ringwayman]

If we consider that a two class aircraft with no fancy dan Y+ offering was making profits* then perhaps Skipness we might be able to suggest that only clowns would change a "winning" formula, especially considering the lack of prominence the route was given. Should the 787 come in as advertised with much better fuel consumption that the 763 or A330 then I would suggest that however marginal a route is at present, it's profitability would in theory be increased. Yes the long-haul routes on offer are predominantly going to hubs but notice how few offer J, Y+ and Y. Whatever revenue accrued from poorly patronised Y+ would be beaten by not having that offering but with a couple of extra rows of "ordinary" Y.

* At least we can safely say it was making profits given the mantra over that route's withdrawal that BA is not a charity!

[bermudatriangle]

my travel flew to barbados,full of cheap seats and look what happened to them.BMI moving the aircraft to london proves that making money from manchester is very difficult.i find it worrying that the only growth seems to be locost operators.hardly a recipe for long term profit.just don't think that the passengers will keep the tills ringing in the manchester airport shopping mall.

[hammerb32]

I don't understand why you think the future is lo-co only?

BA have operated a point to point service from MAN - JFK and couldn't make it work, AA fly a point to hub service, this is the key difference. There is still massive potential for other long haul operators to offer a point to hub service around the world. It's natural in an economic downturn that airlines will cut their thin routes and retreat to tried and tested fomulas. It doesn't mean there's not money to be made.

[dollydaydream]

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that BA and possibly BMI don't want to make it work.

[jubilee]

DAr19,
What I was trying to highlight was the difference in fares,by what is to all intentions the same airline, all be it in a different guise, and the fact that the full fare division of the same group appears to offer better value.

Also booking flights to Barbados in March from Manchester in business, Ba shuttle to LGW, BA on to BGI £1455.60.
BA shuttle to LHR,Virgin on to BGI £2234
BMI direct from Manchester £3264.

As an aside I believe that one of the routes the A330 is to be put upon is Cairo, Business fare £946.
The BGI fares are from Expedia. Cairo from BMI site.

This also hi-lights the supplements we have to pay to fly direct from Manchester,and also with regards to the Cairo flight,the aircraft will have to be utilised more, if possible, to gain revenue,even allowing for extra fuel and crew costs, when deployed from Manchester.
Jubilee

[hammerb32]

Perhaps, but if there was money to be made on the routes then they would carry on, neither airline strike me as the sort to cut their nose off to spite their faces. I know there's a conspiracy theory but I really do feel it's a little far fetched.

[Ian Brooks]

BA have no interest in the regions other than to feed to London, the shuttles do not make money as many of the passengers are only using as an add on to their
flights ex LHR/LGW.The fares charged on the shuttles do not reflect the real cost to operate the route as they are trying to get pax to use them rather than travelling with other operators either direct from MAN or via other hubs, they are in fact a loss leader in effect

What I must do is check fares from LHR and from MAN via LHR and see if there is a difference in favour of MAN just to get to travel via LHR but too busy at present
so it will have to wait

Ian

[trumptonville]

PK current routes

Since the winter schedule change PK are operating terminating flights PK701 5 times a week (non op Wed/Sat) and 709 twice a week.The only transit flights now left are the 711 and 721, both westbound only A