Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.


Old 20th Nov 2008, 21:42
  #201 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Geneva bookable through the summer on Easyjets site.
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Old 21st Nov 2008, 02:43
  #202 (permalink)  
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So what the Hell are Continental, Delta, USAirways and American flying across the Atlantic from Manchester? Fresh air?

No me!! Gotta love the US Carriers, service is not as good, but they are reliable. Now that the UK carriers have taken their bat and gloves down to congested city, they should make more money out of MAN also. Every cloud does have a silver lining
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Old 21st Nov 2008, 11:34
  #203 (permalink)  
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SIA pulling Out - please no

...problem here might be the A380 at Heathrow !

Did they bring down frequency at LHR when this came in or have they simply added capacity ?
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Old 21st Nov 2008, 12:13
  #204 (permalink)  
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It's adding capacity I'm afraid, and lots of it.

Also, no spare capacity to run an A340 of the VS LHR fleet to MAN,
Thought they were scaling back routes at MAN not adding to it!

Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 21st Nov 2008 at 15:39.
Skipness One Echo is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2008, 15:36
  #205 (permalink)  
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All that talk of exansion on promted me to do some searches.

The poster says that olympic will be double daily on 3 days a week, but infact olympic are down to 2x weekly (op MON & THU), so we have yet another downgrade.

No sign of SIA, AC, EZY or BE expansion, so may be just a pipe dream.

Also, no spare capacity to run an A340 of the VS LHR fleet to MAN, so that might not happen either. Saying that, things can change, although to maximise loads, if routes are being launched in march, isnt it best to announce them now, as it comes around faster than you think?

Just my 2 cents
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Old 21st Nov 2008, 16:25
  #206 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Echo
We get it. You hate Heathrow and you have no grasp of the airline business.
Firstly, you have no idea as to daynehold's level of understanding.

Secondly, do I have no grasp of the airline business because I believe it was a bad idea for BA to terminate Manchester-JFK. I as an experienced accountant who has worked in yield, commercial and accounts payable departments with four airlines alongside the Syrian tourism authority?

Whenever a Manchester enthusiast or employee complains about BA you become unpleasant with them but that aside, allow me to point out a few things you might be missing in your black and white view of a complex industry:

1.) Manchester-JFK had PR impact, to the casual (i.e not airline related) observer it would appear that BA had a very small base at Manchester with a few destinations including New York, thereby creating the illusion that BA had a presence in the regions and creating goodwill in those regions.
2.) Said goodwill could have convinced those who had taken satisfactory direct flights from Manchester to use BA via Heathrow.
3.) Swapping Manchester for Gatwick puts the idea of a sort of "anti-Northism" into the minds of residents of the North of England causing bad feeling towards British Airways.
4.) The public do not understand that BA is privatised, they consider it the national carrier and they have even less understanding of the "hub and spoke" model.

Perhaps before you insult others you might consider arguments outside of your black and white mentality (such as PR, goodwill, etc).

In any case, you seem to consider anyone who criticises the hub and spoke model to be lacking in understanding. Remember what they said about Ryanair's decision to set up at Charleroi? Something along the lines of "no feeding traffic, not enough point to point travellers" which seems to be the argument on your lips the majority of the time.
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Old 21st Nov 2008, 16:35
  #207 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Looks like all these stories on other boards may be coming out of the Slot Conference which I think was last week.

And I'm sure we all remember the speculation frenzy on this board a few years ago after an earlier slot conference.

Let's just say that many of the slot bids never turn into reality for a number of reasons - only when an airline is taking bookings are we getting close to something happening

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Old 21st Nov 2008, 17:45
  #208 (permalink)  
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DAr19, I have amazing repspect for the Syrian Toursit Authority and the Sterling work that they are doing. Truly a world shaping organisation. The points you make are actually well made sir, but peripheral.

Most people know BA is a plc, they just have a memory of them as the national carrier. When they were the national carrier, they were hardly the worlds best. Most people old enough to remember them as the national carrier also lived through Thatcher's era of mass privatisation. I don't believe they really believe BA is a national carrier in the way you mean. Honestly.
Now surely as an accountant I expect a logical grasp of revenue generation and an understanding of getting as much from ones assets as possible. This is the managements responsibilty to the shareholders. This is what BA do ruthlessly ( except for Open Skies which is a ruthless attempt to screw over their own staff ! )

PR and goddwill are part of the business model no doubt, ruthless business acumen is demanded especially right now or there won't be a BA to bitch over. They have a MASSIVE pension deficit and we are heading into a downturn. The decision to terminate MAN-JFK looks smarter by the day, the decision to begin LGW-JFK may not pan out.

I also refer you to my arguments that legacy carriers use the hub and spoke model, the new locos not so much as they operate numerous bases across Europe.

The bottom line is that no one on here has suggested a way for BA to compete head to head outside of London with the locos. The public vote with their feet and the BA cost base is HUGE in comparison with the new boys.

BTW I'm not a soft southern fan boy, I'm a bitter Scot who lived through Glasgow losing NWA , BA, American, Air Canada and United. All that promise and rhetoric from the airlines and not a penny of profit after all that effort. I want MAN to do well, and I reckon that all things considered they ARE doing well.
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Old 22nd Nov 2008, 12:37
  #209 (permalink)  
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So who is rumoured to be picking up the BD longhaul routes ex Manchester this week?

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Old 23rd Nov 2008, 10:29
  #210 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Posts: 478
Errr....noone! The economy is on its arse and even AA are currling capacity on the route to a 757!
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Old 23rd Nov 2008, 11:34
  #211 (permalink)  
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According to today's Sunday Mail MAG has joined the beardy Branson and Easy consortium to buy the No.2 Southern Softy Airport LGW.

Apparently we didnt have enough muscle to go it alone and couldnt raise the spondoolicks.

More shops on the way for LGW then............or should that be EVEN more......

No more on the SIA rumour from a few days ago.........appears to be just that a rumour.

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Old 23rd Nov 2008, 14:32
  #212 (permalink)  
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I met with SQ last week in Shanghai and have signed a BSA (Block Space Agreement) with them for the next 12 months, the summer schedule i have from them stays at 5 days per week.
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Old 23rd Nov 2008, 15:35
  #213 (permalink)  
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The reason AA have brought it down to a 752 is that they are retiring their A300s which are being replaced by their 763s which currently fly across the pond everyday.

NOT because of the current economy.
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Old 23rd Nov 2008, 18:15
  #214 (permalink)  
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NOT because of the current economy.
In all fairness, AA have over 50 767-300s in the fleet and although they are downgrading a number of routes to free up replacement aircraft for the A300s leaving the fleet, it is a fair bet that the routes being downgraded are the ones whose commercial performance is sub-par.

Put it another way, if the 767-300 was going full every day with profitable high-yield traffic, do you think American would be turning away 40+ pax every flight from Manchester or looking at other sectors in their network which were under-performing and downgrading those to a 757 instead?

They need to downgrade 28 lines of flying to release the A300s for retirement and it would appear that Manchester-ORD being chosen for a downgrade to 757 indicates that the route appears somewhere in the bottom third of the profitability table for AA.


Routes for Summer 2009:
Air Canada back with a daily YYZ 767 service
Air France launching a daily LYS CRJ service
BA cutback on LGW-MAN from 7 to 5 per day
Flybe having a go at bmi regional on MAN-ABZ, 6 x daily
Continental staying at twice-daily on EWR with 757
Delta staying daily 757 on JFK but at later arrival/departure times than now
Sun-Air adding lunchtime service to Billund
One new route from Ryanair (twice weekly, don't know what)
CSA increasing up to 3 per day
Monarch daily NCE + second daily BCN

Most of this not yet announced.
Flightrider is offline  
Old 23rd Nov 2008, 19:21
  #215 (permalink)  
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One new route from Ryanair (twice weekly, don't know what)
FR announced Cagliari twice a week recently. Is that the route you mean or another new route?
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Old 23rd Nov 2008, 19:40
  #216 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Flightrider, you seem to forget, this is only a slots submission and often doesn't bear any resemblance to reality. Lots of airlines "fly a kite" when it comes to this process! Can't see many of these coming off in the current climate.
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Old 23rd Nov 2008, 20:12
  #217 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2004
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I sometimes have to do a double take when I read some of stuff on here...

SQ are increasing capacity/flights ?!. Not going to happen.

SQ are pulling out ?!. Neither is that.

Oh, and just to wind up the load-factor gang. I flew BD705 to ORD a couple of weeks ago and there was just one empty seat up front. They've even finally fitted IFE screens in row 1 now......
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Old 23rd Nov 2008, 20:26
  #218 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Manchester, England
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who ever has made the SQ rumor up wants to get a life, the only thing i cant say is that SQ have warned MAN plc that they will not move to T1.

regarding the DL interest in BOS-SNN-MAN, i heave heard nothing, but, DL are seriously considering DTW-MAN, once the DL/NW merger is complete.

and virgin have stated that they want to operate two A340-300's both sat and sun (on top of the 744)on the orlando route starting next summer

thomas cook are getting ready to move over to T2, before march.

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Old 23rd Nov 2008, 20:38
  #219 (permalink)  
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and virgin have stated that they want to operate two A340-300's both sat and sun (on top of the 744)on the orlando route starting next summer
Any idea what's being dropped at LHR to accomodate this?
Skipness One Echo is offline  
Old 23rd Nov 2008, 20:57
  #220 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2007
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I am assuming there are new A346s arriving to accomodate these aircraft or maybe, as they are only operating two services a week with it they may have reduced/increased a business based route (ie NYC etc.) during the week.
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