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Flybe & Estonian Air
Flybe have confirmed they are in discussions with Estonian Air. Should Estonian go bankrupt, Flybe could be involved in launching new services/airline in partnership with the countries government.
Flybe and Estonian ministry discussed the provision of flight services :: The Baltic Course | Baltic States news & analytics
Flybe and Estonian ministry discussed the provision of flight services :: The Baltic Course | Baltic States news & analytics
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Interesting re Estonian, and brings to mind that BE will be fairly confident while the FR legal challenge is ongoing and the proposed FlybeIreland proposals, FR wont be challenging BE in such a market as Estonia, hence, BE may be well able to keep FR off its back ....
Ironic that Flybe are looking to bail out Estonian if they go bankrupt. Perhaps a mutual aid pact might be more appropriate - their own finances are hardly flush with cash right now.
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Some good stuff in this story; Aer Lingus CEO slams Ryanair's plans for new Irish airline - UPDATE - stock market news and uk share prices
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Flightrider, Serenity......
I don't see anything about bailing out Estonian? A quick trawl of the internet indicates that this about the formation of a joint venture with the Estonian government following the bankruptcy of the current Estonian Air, should the government take that decision.
Are Flybe facing some challenges at the moment? Sure, it's fair to say that they are. However, Flybe isn't a single airline business and whilst the UK airline has it's challenges to overcome, Flybe Finland appears unaffected and has grown well on the back of Finnair since it's creation.
I think it's also worth getting some context. Some posters here seem to think that Flybe is on the verge of bankruptcy. I agree that the situation would be much graver if they ignored the need to make redundancies and cost savings within their UK business, but Flybe are currently losing only 2-3% of annual turnover per year.
Whilst not sustainable forever, this isn't anywhere close to the likes of BMI, BMIBaby, Cityjet etc who were/are much much more as a percentage of turnover. Then factor in the number of years that these losses were absorbed and it makes for even more tragic reading. (Of course, I accept that Flybe does not have a parent airline like LH or AF to fall back on).
Flybe still have available cash in the bank from the recent flotation, and the cost reductions are necessary to avoid burning through this more quickly, afterall, shareholders invested on the basis that there would be EU expansion, not to bail out losses in the UK business.
Forgive me but from reading some post on here, you'd be forgiven for thinking it was a case of 'last one out turn off the lights'. There are certainly some on here exaggerating the severity of the situation that Flybe finds itself in.
I don't see anything about bailing out Estonian? A quick trawl of the internet indicates that this about the formation of a joint venture with the Estonian government following the bankruptcy of the current Estonian Air, should the government take that decision.
Are Flybe facing some challenges at the moment? Sure, it's fair to say that they are. However, Flybe isn't a single airline business and whilst the UK airline has it's challenges to overcome, Flybe Finland appears unaffected and has grown well on the back of Finnair since it's creation.
I think it's also worth getting some context. Some posters here seem to think that Flybe is on the verge of bankruptcy. I agree that the situation would be much graver if they ignored the need to make redundancies and cost savings within their UK business, but Flybe are currently losing only 2-3% of annual turnover per year.
Whilst not sustainable forever, this isn't anywhere close to the likes of BMI, BMIBaby, Cityjet etc who were/are much much more as a percentage of turnover. Then factor in the number of years that these losses were absorbed and it makes for even more tragic reading. (Of course, I accept that Flybe does not have a parent airline like LH or AF to fall back on).
Flybe still have available cash in the bank from the recent flotation, and the cost reductions are necessary to avoid burning through this more quickly, afterall, shareholders invested on the basis that there would be EU expansion, not to bail out losses in the UK business.
Forgive me but from reading some post on here, you'd be forgiven for thinking it was a case of 'last one out turn off the lights'. There are certainly some on here exaggerating the severity of the situation that Flybe finds itself in.
Last edited by JobsaGoodun; 15th Feb 2013 at 08:47.
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S##T
"Bankruptcy for Flybe not that far off!! What a load of complete tripe. For your info, Flybe has floated a small propotion of the company, with reasonable cash reserves if Jim goes asking cap-in-hand.
T
T
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HidekiTojo,
The great thing about floating on the stock market is that you can see warts and all. You're commenting without looking at any of the information! Have you looked at the accounts, have you seen the cash reserves? By saying they're on the brink (again with it being a PLC you are treading on dodgy ground, even on this anonymous forum) is just wrong and mis-informed. Go and look at the figures...
Secondly, how can you say you haven't seen any of the cost cutting? Do you work for the airline? Do you know what's going on inside? It's all over the news of the number of job losses so that's a pretty big saving! Albeit maybe not this financial year but your quoted calendar year there should be some significant savings!
JobsaGoodun,
Very well said.
The great thing about floating on the stock market is that you can see warts and all. You're commenting without looking at any of the information! Have you looked at the accounts, have you seen the cash reserves? By saying they're on the brink (again with it being a PLC you are treading on dodgy ground, even on this anonymous forum) is just wrong and mis-informed. Go and look at the figures...
Secondly, how can you say you haven't seen any of the cost cutting? Do you work for the airline? Do you know what's going on inside? It's all over the news of the number of job losses so that's a pretty big saving! Albeit maybe not this financial year but your quoted calendar year there should be some significant savings!
JobsaGoodun,
Very well said.
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Flebe - HidekiTojo 14th Feb 2013, 10:43
I’m sorry but it is about time that these kinds of speculative posts ceased.
I quote the following from Spectators Balcony (Spotters Corner)
12th Feb 2013, 16:51
What airline do you believe; if any, could be the next one to cease operations within the next coming months/years? .... SOMEWHAT IRRESPONSIBLE TO ASK BECAUSE "RUMOUR CONTROL" ALONE CAN PERSUADE THE FLYING PUBLIC NOT TO BOOK PUTTING AN OPERATOR OUT OF BUSINESS
Call me what you wish (maybe pompous but at least I’m sincere!) but I wholehearted endorse this comment. The UK economy is in dire straights and I’m afraid to say that one of the significant reasons for this lies at the door of “financial speculators” who have amassed wealth but at a cost to millions of “ordinary hard working folk”.
I’m not sure what satisfaction is gained from posting comments about the possible future of airlines but please act responsibly and bear in mind that “rumors are started by *****, spread by fools and accepted by idiots” (anon quote).
I quote the following from Spectators Balcony (Spotters Corner)
12th Feb 2013, 16:51
What airline do you believe; if any, could be the next one to cease operations within the next coming months/years? .... SOMEWHAT IRRESPONSIBLE TO ASK BECAUSE "RUMOUR CONTROL" ALONE CAN PERSUADE THE FLYING PUBLIC NOT TO BOOK PUTTING AN OPERATOR OUT OF BUSINESS
Call me what you wish (maybe pompous but at least I’m sincere!) but I wholehearted endorse this comment. The UK economy is in dire straights and I’m afraid to say that one of the significant reasons for this lies at the door of “financial speculators” who have amassed wealth but at a cost to millions of “ordinary hard working folk”.
I’m not sure what satisfaction is gained from posting comments about the possible future of airlines but please act responsibly and bear in mind that “rumors are started by *****, spread by fools and accepted by idiots” (anon quote).
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I get really hacked off by people that all they can see is the negative side and seem hell bent on bringing companies/people down, perhaps if people look at
things with a positive we can come out of the reccession, the more negative you are the worse things look and so on.
So a new question which airline is going to do best and expand and remember the press look at these forums. There are lots of plusses if people look
Chaps
things with a positive we can come out of the reccession, the more negative you are the worse things look and so on.
So a new question which airline is going to do best and expand and remember the press look at these forums. There are lots of plusses if people look
Chaps
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The UK economy is in dire straights and I’m afraid to say that one of the significant reasons for this lies at the door of “financial speculators” who have amassed wealth but at a cost to millions of “ordinary hard working folk”.
Last edited by redED; 15th Feb 2013 at 13:10.
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I know Flybe have some issues at the moment with fees at Gatwick but still unsure why they do not take on the Gatwick-Manchester route when BA suspend it from the end of March. It carries point to point traffic as well as some transfer traffic to BA/VS longhauls. 3 times daily with mix of EMB175/EMB195 may be viable especially with codeshares with BA/VS. Even a contract agreement with BA may be worth looking at like the London City-Isle of Man one BA has with Eastern.
I am also surprised that GIP do not seem too concerned about losing the link between two of England's largest cities. I understand they want to expand longhaul operations but losing potential transfer traffic from the regions does not strengthen their case.
V.
I am also surprised that GIP do not seem too concerned about losing the link between two of England's largest cities. I understand they want to expand longhaul operations but losing potential transfer traffic from the regions does not strengthen their case.
V.
Gatwick-St Pancras takes 45 mins by train and runs every 15 mins
St Pancras - Euston takes 10 mins to walk
Euston - Manchester Piccadilly takes 2h05 by train and runs every 20 mins
Total is 3 hours with very high frequency throughout the day. Very difficult for air to compete on point-point.
Flybe do well when there is water in the middle of a straight-line route or when billions have not been spent upgrading the train line.
St Pancras - Euston takes 10 mins to walk
Euston - Manchester Piccadilly takes 2h05 by train and runs every 20 mins
Total is 3 hours with very high frequency throughout the day. Very difficult for air to compete on point-point.
Flybe do well when there is water in the middle of a straight-line route or when billions have not been spent upgrading the train line.
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The rail journey sounds good. It makes you wonder why they need to dig up swathes of countryside to have another railway.
I think the money would be better spent on improving the airport capacity in the south. Has anyone thought of this?
I think the money would be better spent on improving the airport capacity in the south. Has anyone thought of this?
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It think the lack of takers ,endorses BA's decision to pull the MAN route.
In its heyday LGW/MAN was one of the key routes feeding longhaul - thats when LGW was the sole UK gateway for ATL,DFW,IAH,LOS,TIP and these routes all had lots of connecting psgrs for MAN ,many of whom were high yielding.
These routes have all switched to LHR and LGW is left serving the 'Beach' routes to Florida,Caribbean plus DXB,LAS.
DXB,LAS , BGI have scheduled nontops from MAN .Charters serve other parts of the Caribbean, Florida and CUN.Large number of Florida and LasVegas bound psgrs connect in the US via the direct services to ATL,CLT,PHL.
Result is importance of MAN/LGW as a feeder is highly diminished in terms of numbers and yields from those remaining are not great.
The policy of GIP is to dis-courage small aircraft and their pricing means it is very difficult to make money with sub 100 seaters.A large proportion of the seats need to be filled just to pay for landing charges/turnaround handling charges ,leaving small scope to make any money.
Rising APD makes it difficult for airlines to raise fares to achieve profitability without making the total ticket cost unbearable.
In short theres more profit to be made using aircraft elsewhere although I do agree GIP will find it harder to attract new carriers without good connections to important cities like MAN.
In its heyday LGW/MAN was one of the key routes feeding longhaul - thats when LGW was the sole UK gateway for ATL,DFW,IAH,LOS,TIP and these routes all had lots of connecting psgrs for MAN ,many of whom were high yielding.
These routes have all switched to LHR and LGW is left serving the 'Beach' routes to Florida,Caribbean plus DXB,LAS.
DXB,LAS , BGI have scheduled nontops from MAN .Charters serve other parts of the Caribbean, Florida and CUN.Large number of Florida and LasVegas bound psgrs connect in the US via the direct services to ATL,CLT,PHL.
Result is importance of MAN/LGW as a feeder is highly diminished in terms of numbers and yields from those remaining are not great.
The policy of GIP is to dis-courage small aircraft and their pricing means it is very difficult to make money with sub 100 seaters.A large proportion of the seats need to be filled just to pay for landing charges/turnaround handling charges ,leaving small scope to make any money.
Rising APD makes it difficult for airlines to raise fares to achieve profitability without making the total ticket cost unbearable.
In short theres more profit to be made using aircraft elsewhere although I do agree GIP will find it harder to attract new carriers without good connections to important cities like MAN.
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Summer 2013
The schedule still seems to be evolving even as March approaches.
Inverness seems to be the attention of some changes with two based 175's per various sites.
The Gatwick goes back to three daily in May and INV - MAN changes to the 175 as does INV-BHD.
The INV-BHX reverts back to a BHX based aircraft also gets upgraded Mon-Fri to the 175. MAN from 31/3, BHD and BHX from 1/4.
BHX-HAJ moves to a 13.00 departure and MAN-DUS in the morning reverts to the Q400 with the 175 going MAN-BHD-MAN-JER-MAN-DUS-MAN-DUS-MAN.
The Inverness extra 175 seems to come from Manchester but I believe another one was due for delivery in March - has this changed or anybody got any accurate information?
Two Q400's I see have recently been withdrawn from use and are heading to Nigeria.
It also appears that the 175/195 swap between BHX & EDI is going ahead. BHX - EDI first, forth and sixth outbounds are now with the 175 and the EDI based SOU flight changing to the 195.
Certainly seem to be upping the 175 utilisation with the BHX three operating 22 sectors most weekdays.
Pete
Inverness seems to be the attention of some changes with two based 175's per various sites.
The Gatwick goes back to three daily in May and INV - MAN changes to the 175 as does INV-BHD.
The INV-BHX reverts back to a BHX based aircraft also gets upgraded Mon-Fri to the 175. MAN from 31/3, BHD and BHX from 1/4.
BHX-HAJ moves to a 13.00 departure and MAN-DUS in the morning reverts to the Q400 with the 175 going MAN-BHD-MAN-JER-MAN-DUS-MAN-DUS-MAN.
The Inverness extra 175 seems to come from Manchester but I believe another one was due for delivery in March - has this changed or anybody got any accurate information?
Two Q400's I see have recently been withdrawn from use and are heading to Nigeria.
It also appears that the 175/195 swap between BHX & EDI is going ahead. BHX - EDI first, forth and sixth outbounds are now with the 175 and the EDI based SOU flight changing to the 195.
Certainly seem to be upping the 175 utilisation with the BHX three operating 22 sectors most weekdays.
Pete