FlyBe - 6

[compton3bravo]

That is the problem - we don´t. Some of the destinations being suggested sound to me like 10 to 20 pax max. How many people from the Essex and surrounding areas would want to go to Groningen - lovely city and oil related while Essex is not. Be very afraid I am sorry to say plus the lead-in time is not ideal - not much time for publicity, advertising etc. Sorry to be so negative but that is how I see it.

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by compton3bravo

That is the problem - we don´t. Some of the destinations being suggested sound to me like 10 to 20 pax max. How many people from the Essex and surrounding areas would want to go to Groningen - lovely city and oil related while Essex is not. Be very afraid I am sorry to say plus the lead-in time is not ideal - not much time for publicity, advertising etc. Sorry to be so negative but that is how I see it.

To take Groningen as an example, I wouldn't expect many passengers from Essex - but that's not really the target market IMHO: I'd expect the traffic to be maybe 80%+ Dutch. The attraction is not Essex (or Groningen), the attraction is that this is a convenient direct flight to London for a market that doesn't have such a service.

Some other destinations may have a higher proportion of UK-originating traffic but in general I see the marketing task as telling people in a few distinct and relatively small continental European markets that they now have the option of a direct flight to London.

[serko]

Stobart don't need to make a profit on the flights just approach break even. Each passenger through Southend generates £20 for Stobart. so 200000 passengers will generate around £4million

[davidjohnson6]

A company that manages only breakeven on a regular basis is ignoring the cost of capital. Running an airline is a capital intensive business and failure to make profits can only end in tears.

The conglomerates of the 1980s are no longer fashionable for a reason...

[LTNman]

To take Groningen as an example, I wouldn't expect many passengers from Essex - but that's not really the target market IMHO: I'd expect the traffic to be maybe 80%+ Dutch. The attraction is not Essex (or Groningen), the attraction is that this is a convenient direct flight to London for a market that doesn't have such a service.

With no early trains from London or late trains to London Johny Foreigner will have a problem getting to and from London if the departure time from Southend is before 7:45am or arrives back after 22:30.

Each passenger through Southend generates £20 for Stobart. so 200000 passengers will generate around £4million

How do you work that one out. I doubt that Southend will charge anything for handling their own aircraft so it will cost Southend money. There are next to no shops at Southend to generate retail income which just leaves car parking and with all those Dutch who have left their cars in Holland they won't be using the car parks either.

I can only think of Manston that had its own airline to generate passengers and we all know how that ended.

I hope it all works out but I think it will be tough going.

[EI-BUD]

I doubt that Southend will charge anything for handling their own aircraft

Of course Southend will charge for their aircraft . SEN is a distinct and separate entity with its own costs. Stobart Air would need to be paying at least the same amount as easyJet. Any entrants who could potentially enter the airport in the future on the same routes (as hypothetical as that may be) would have to bd offered the same deal as Stobart.


Where on earth did the £20 figure comf from ? Totally arbitrary and pie in the sky, as other contributors have said few retail outlets, not all passengers parking and if easyJet are paying more than £1 - £2 per passenger I'd be surprised.

Serko, what is your source of this £20 figure?

[serko]

From the stobart interim results presentation in fact the precise figure is £10.66 per passenger. Those tourists who don't pay for parking will probably get the train at the stobart operated station. Or hire a car. All of which are revenue generating. Stobart also run the airport retail themselves.

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by EI-BUD

Stobart Air would need to be paying at least the same amount as easyJet. Any entrants who could potentially enter the airport in the future on the same routes (as hypothetical as that may be) would have to bd offered the same deal as Stobart.

Are you really sure about that?

I can think offhand of several airports who offer new-route discounts, available only to the first carrier to start a route and not to any subsequent competitor entering that route. Are they doing something wrong?

[mikkie4]

Where is the furthest FLYBE could get to from SEN? also would they be willing to use their jets as well as their ATRs?

[BAladdy]

Hopefully it will be two new ATR72's that will be used and not the two oldest ATR72's (EI-REH & EI-REI). Personally I think BE willadd the following destinations from SEN

Maastricht (MST) - - Could be launched to replace FR's STN service that is due to end at the end of this week.

Münster-Osnabrück (FMO) - Could be launched to replace WX's LCY service that is due to end at the end of this week.

Nuremburg (NUE) - Could be launched to replace WX's LCY service that is due to end at the end of this week.

Rennes (RNS) - Destination already served by BE.

[LTNman]

From the stobart interim results presentation in fact the precise figure is £10.66 per passenger. Those tourists who don't pay for parking will probably get the train at the stobart operated station. Or hire a car. All of which are revenue generating. Stobart also run the airport retail themselves.

Revenue for the Stobart Air division was £10.4m (2012: £7.9m) and the divisional profit before tax was £0.1m (2012: loss £0.3m)

[Badabingabadabing]

I can only think of Manston that had its own airline to generate passengers and we all know how that ended.

Sutton Harbour Holdings. They would have got away with, too, if it weren't for French&Rutter...

[SWBKCB]

**Thread drift alert**

Didn't Eastern and Humberside airport have the same owner at one stage?

[insuindi]

@BAladdy The six destination are set to be in Benelux and Northern Europe. Munster-Osnabruck may be considered as Northern Europe in the widest sense. Nuremberg and Rennes probably not (also given the FR service STN-NUE I doubt NUE would be a good idea at all from SEN with a Turboprop). EDIT: according to independent.ie "six routes for Flybe from the UK to destinations in the Benelux, France and Germany. Details of the exact routes won't be unveiled until next week." As such may Rennes be a possibility after all, and I guess FMO a given.

[LN-KGL]

And "at one stage" is now SWBKCB

[Set 1013]

I suspect MAN will appear as a route feeding the Flybe domestic hub. I also think CDG will be a route feeding an international hub. AMS is already served by Easyjet. Just my thoughts.

[Flightrider]

Nuremburg is an awfully long way in an ATR72 from London. Maastricht possibly, Groningen possibly, but perhaps some destinations in northern France?

[SealinkBF]

Dart Group springs to mind... a logistics group that started an airline.

[toledoashley]

Nuremberg also has a Ryanair daily flight from STN, which should be more than enough uplift.

[LN-KGL]

The joint flybe/Stobart Air press release states "six new routes to Northern Europe and Benelux countries". Now it all depends of what flybe/Stobart Air consider Northern Europe to be, but if we look at what United Nations and the European Union defines as Northern Europe; Germany isn't a part of Northern Europe. Northern Europe is the Nordic countries (minus Greenland) and the three Baltic countries. UN and EU don't agree about the status of the British Isles - EU include the British Isles in Western Europe while UN will have the British Isles to be a part of Northern Europe.


If we consider flybe/Stobart Air know what Northern Europe is, then we may be talking about a very few airports: airports in Denmark (EBJ and AAL are the only with no flights to STN), airports on the south west coast of Norway (SVG and BGO) and one airport on the west coast of Sweden (GOT). All these airports mentioned are less than 600 nautical miles from SEN, which I think a maximum leg length should be for the ATR.