Heathrow Plans (Merged)
Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dundee to Close
A new Airport at Stirling is on th cards and three will close EDINBURGH, GLASGOW, and DUNDEE. It makes sense for Scotland .
A new Airport at Stirling is on th cards and three will close EDINBURGH, GLASGOW, and DUNDEE. It makes sense for Scotland .
Oooooo! Take that tongue out of your cheek before the wind changes & leave these southern folks to all their perceived problems. Another unway at LHR isn't going to give any more airspace above the south east of englandshire, which is probably a bigger driver of congestion for them.
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Without sounding rude, this is classic NIMBYISM, if you don't like aircraft noise, which let's face it is generally quieter and cleaner now than ever before, then don't move near the world's busiest international airport. Most light aircraft make more of a noise nuisance nowadays.
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I think its an excellent idea. They did it in Hong Kong. Airports should be kept away from built up areas at all costs. Not only noise but safety in general. Most accidents happen during take-off landing, there has already been a Trident into Slough a 777 just inside the boundary. Also most of the recent accidents that spring to mind seem to happen close to the airport Madrid......blah blah (even UK accidents Kegworth, Manchester).
An airport out in the Estuary (24 hour operation) with fast rail links into Central London, solves all the issues with regard to expansion at LHR-it may be costly but it would be worth it.
An airport out in the Estuary (24 hour operation) with fast rail links into Central London, solves all the issues with regard to expansion at LHR-it may be costly but it would be worth it.
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Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dundee to Close
A new Airport at Stirling is on th cards and three will close EDINBURGH, GLASGOW, and DUNDEE. It makes sense for Scotland
Another good idea, one large airport on a green field site away from built-up areas, near the motorways and with a railway station. Great for everybody, more choice of destinations from one airport that is easily accessable, with frequent trains into both Glasgow and Edinburgh. Free up areas in Glasgow and Edinburgh for development. Great for the environment with massive scaling down of frequencies eg LHR/EDI & GLA less rotations as these would be combined, maybe larger aircraft but still still providing a frequent service. This would run out on all routes.
A new Airport at Stirling is on th cards and three will close EDINBURGH, GLASGOW, and DUNDEE. It makes sense for Scotland
Another good idea, one large airport on a green field site away from built-up areas, near the motorways and with a railway station. Great for everybody, more choice of destinations from one airport that is easily accessable, with frequent trains into both Glasgow and Edinburgh. Free up areas in Glasgow and Edinburgh for development. Great for the environment with massive scaling down of frequencies eg LHR/EDI & GLA less rotations as these would be combined, maybe larger aircraft but still still providing a frequent service. This would run out on all routes.
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No it's a crazy idea. Frequent fliers, ie me, want the airport near them. You would have to forcibly shut Prestwick and compensate Infratil as the Glasgow traffic would fragment to Prestwick and this new super airport. It would also be less than ideal for Edinburgh businessmen as it's.....NOT NEAR EDINBURGH. So aside from being less than ideal for both markets it's a brilliant solution (!)
Gate 22, in the South East, we have NOWHERE away from built up areas that ANYONE is gonna let you concrete over. There's precious little unspoilt land as is. Be realistic. Be grounded. Be sensible. Be prudent. We don't have the same society as Hong Kong, the same builders or costs.
IT'S NOT EVER GOING TO HAPPEN IN LONDON, GLASGOW OR EDINBURGH. Deal with it. The rest is just hot air and blah blah.
On a more Heathrow note, anyone know what's being built between the piers at Terminal 1? Is it part of the Heathrow East project?
Gate 22, in the South East, we have NOWHERE away from built up areas that ANYONE is gonna let you concrete over. There's precious little unspoilt land as is. Be realistic. Be grounded. Be sensible. Be prudent. We don't have the same society as Hong Kong, the same builders or costs.
IT'S NOT EVER GOING TO HAPPEN IN LONDON, GLASGOW OR EDINBURGH. Deal with it. The rest is just hot air and blah blah.
On a more Heathrow note, anyone know what's being built between the piers at Terminal 1? Is it part of the Heathrow East project?
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Thought I remembered the plan, my grandparents lived at Thorpe Bay in the 70's. Even then Grandfather said it was a b
y stupid idea and wouldn't work.
Who knows in these green and security driven times though.
No bets from me on a new airport. I'll go with LHR expansion.
plastic
y stupid idea and wouldn't work.Who knows in these green and security driven times though.
No bets from me on a new airport. I'll go with LHR expansion.
plastic
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A Central Scotland Airport in Falkirk (Skinflats area by Grangemouth) was indeed planned in the mid 90s, but never got any further than the 'planning' stage.
It would benefit Scotland, and make life easier for passengers and airlines - using one central airport, and I for one would be all for it, however cant see it happening anytime soon... Cost, politics and the length of time 'public consultations / enquiries' take, would totally finish the idea off...
BUT - look at the UAE and their take on tourism and jobs... They are building another airport in Dubai, as well as upgrading the existing one.
OK, ok they do have zillions to spend, but they are looking ahead and making facilities available...
We live in hope!
It would benefit Scotland, and make life easier for passengers and airlines - using one central airport, and I for one would be all for it, however cant see it happening anytime soon... Cost, politics and the length of time 'public consultations / enquiries' take, would totally finish the idea off...
BUT - look at the UAE and their take on tourism and jobs... They are building another airport in Dubai, as well as upgrading the existing one.
OK, ok they do have zillions to spend, but they are looking ahead and making facilities available...
We live in hope!
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At the moment I can choose from flying from Prestwick, Glasgow or at a push Edinburgh. Exactly how does concreting over a substantial chunk of unspoilt countryside, p***ing off the locals and relocating / sacking a lot of people help?
So we can travel further to have a few more destinations in bigger aircraft? Never gonna happen. Grandiose politicians spending other people's money....
So we can travel further to have a few more destinations in bigger aircraft? Never gonna happen. Grandiose politicians spending other people's money....
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I still think that the answer to the overuse of LHR would have been to have converted Greenham Common into a civvy airport. It had a ready-made very long runway, the terminals could have been built on the old Cruise silo sites and it would have served the area most in need of a third runway. What better way of converting swords into ploughshares??
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The 3rd runway is never going to be built. Even if it were it would make absolutely no difference to Heathrow congestion as BAA plan to max it to capacity as soon as it opens. Gatwick is far better placed for multiple runway operations.
A runway can easily cost up to £13bn, if you think of the amount of raw material needed (tarmac/concrete) which has to be of a certain strength and structure I would imagine considering tonnes of weight touching down constantly.
The other main cost is the labour required, to build a runway is a long time consuming task which is going to require a lot of man power so they are going to need paying!
Finally you have the cost of light fittings, I remember reading somewhere that there are tens of thousands of light bulbs on a runway so I wouldn't want to be the one fitting them all in!
The other main cost is the labour required, to build a runway is a long time consuming task which is going to require a lot of man power so they are going to need paying!
Finally you have the cost of light fittings, I remember reading somewhere that there are tens of thousands of light bulbs on a runway so I wouldn't want to be the one fitting them all in!
Regarding Grand New Airports miles from the city they serve, let's look at a recent example :
Montreal Mirabel. A 1970s project exactly like this one, built in the woods on a grand scale miles from the city. Shunned by passengers and by all airlines apart from those forced by law to use it. The day after the law was rescinded every carrier left for the old Dorval/Trudeau facility. Mirabel is now abandoned.
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There is already a third runway just 5 miles north of Heathrow. It's at Northolt. It's already in use, it has existing major rail and road links, it's 5,500 ft long X 130 ft wide and whilst (at 25/07) it's not quite parallel to Heathrow's runways it's near enough to be workable. All that will be required is a terminal and an underground rail link to join with the Piccadilly Line for access to Heathrow's existing terminals.
That's going to cost a whole lot less than the astronomic sums of UK tax payers money that are being suggested as start up figures for a new runway. We all know that it will end up costing at least three times more and taking twice as long to complete than the estimates provided by those who would be the lowest bidders for the work.
And let's not forget the thousands of ordinary folk who would not then need to be forcibly uprooted from their homes and communities, relocated and compensated before work could commence on clearing the ground for a new runway that will, in all probability be inadequate by the time it's eventually commissioned.
Build a new airport in the Thames estuary - the only sane solution. Relocate the bobbalinks (or whatever) instead.
One way of getting such a project in on time would be to recruit the same team - management and workforce - that built Hong Kong's new airport. Now wouldn't that put the cat among the pigeons
That's going to cost a whole lot less than the astronomic sums of UK tax payers money that are being suggested as start up figures for a new runway. We all know that it will end up costing at least three times more and taking twice as long to complete than the estimates provided by those who would be the lowest bidders for the work.
And let's not forget the thousands of ordinary folk who would not then need to be forcibly uprooted from their homes and communities, relocated and compensated before work could commence on clearing the ground for a new runway that will, in all probability be inadequate by the time it's eventually commissioned.
Build a new airport in the Thames estuary - the only sane solution. Relocate the bobbalinks (or whatever) instead.
One way of getting such a project in on time would be to recruit the same team - management and workforce - that built Hong Kong's new airport. Now wouldn't that put the cat among the pigeons
Last edited by Xeque; 22nd Sep 2008 at 09:23.
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The Montreal-London comparison is a poor one for all sorts of reasons. Better ones might be Paris or New York. What would air travel to and from Paris be like if the French government did not have the foresight to build a new airport at Roissy (more-or-less at the same time the UK government was dithering over Roskill)?
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Except that, um, it isn't allowed to even think about building another runway until 2020?
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2019. Which isnt disimilar to runway 3 at LHR. And given that Gatwick Airport is surrounded by green fields in all directions (well looks like it is everytime I drive there and look out of a window when landing or departing), has to work better than the current location of Heathrow which may have been fine in 1940 but certainly isnt now. And will it ever get a proper rail link? (Crossrail wont happen either)
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Except that, um, it isn't allowed to even think about building another runway until 2020?
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2019. Which isnt disimilar to runway 3 at LHR. And given that Gatwick Airport is surrounded by green fields in all directions (well looks like it is everytime I drive there and look out of a window when landing or departing), has to work better than the current location of Heathrow which may have been fine in 1940 but certainly isnt now. And will it ever get a proper rail link? (Crossrail wont happen either)
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Gatwick is in stockbroker belt and the demand for the second runway is at Heathrow, as are all the major airlines that paid millions for slots to get out of Gatwick. The people that live near Gatwick are very influential and will in my view manage to stop plans for any second runway.
Gatwick and Stansted are holiday airports, Heathrow is a world hub that needs good connections. Landing the Glasgow shuttle on a short runway at Northolt and then making a five mile connection isn't going to win you high yield business passengers.
There are good reasons why these ideas were dismissed and they have been debated before alas. A proper third runway at Heathrow should also insist upon the return of connections to Jersey, Guernsey, Inverness and other parts of the UK domestic framework that have lost their quick link to the world.
Crossrail will happen, it HAS to. The Central Line is killing me slowly (!)
Gatwick and Stansted are holiday airports, Heathrow is a world hub that needs good connections. Landing the Glasgow shuttle on a short runway at Northolt and then making a five mile connection isn't going to win you high yield business passengers.
There are good reasons why these ideas were dismissed and they have been debated before alas. A proper third runway at Heathrow should also insist upon the return of connections to Jersey, Guernsey, Inverness and other parts of the UK domestic framework that have lost their quick link to the world.
Crossrail will happen, it HAS to. The Central Line is killing me slowly (!)
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A Central Scotland Airport in Falkirk (Skinflats area by Grangemouth) was indeed planned in the mid 90s, but never got any further than the 'planning' stage.
It would benefit Scotland, and make life easier for passengers and airlines - using one central airport, and I for one would be all for it, however cant see it happening anytime soon... Cost, politics and the length of time 'public consultations / enquiries' take, would totally finish the idea off...
It would benefit Scotland, and make life easier for passengers and airlines - using one central airport, and I for one would be all for it, however cant see it happening anytime soon... Cost, politics and the length of time 'public consultations / enquiries' take, would totally finish the idea off...
In case you hadn't notice Scotland has a disability - it's called the excuse-of-a-motorway M8 and has to go through the hellhole that is the Glasgow Kingston Bridge.
Building a new airport 30 miles from Glasgow helps no one except the construction industry hired to build it.
People on the East Side of Glasgow are already using Edinburgh as it can have a more predictable travel time than crossing the M8. Those of us West of Glasgow and in Ayrshire (excusing Prestwick for the moment as it only does budget) would hugely suffer from such a move.
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Why poor comparison?
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Why is Mirabel a bad example? Does seem to have reasonable relevance to the current discussion. I remember using it just after it was opened.
How about Narita for another example. New airport, never fufilled it's potential while the airport it was designed to replace has recently been expanded.
"Moving" Heathrow would be the death of the high tech industries in the Thames corridor from Slough to Newbury. It is never going to happen.
As for extra capacity it is likely that we are never going to need it. Why? The price of oil will put an end to the need for Airport expansion, that's why.
There was a window of opportunity to replace Heathrow 30 years ago and it was lost. It will never be resurrected. Despite the confused mutterings of a deranged blond twit. Boy, but the people of London are going to reap what they sowed there!
Boris can't even find the money to fund Crossrail how can he fund an airport that NEEDS new transport links to make it work, of which crossrail is only one?
Why is Mirabel a bad example? Does seem to have reasonable relevance to the current discussion. I remember using it just after it was opened.
How about Narita for another example. New airport, never fufilled it's potential while the airport it was designed to replace has recently been expanded.
"Moving" Heathrow would be the death of the high tech industries in the Thames corridor from Slough to Newbury. It is never going to happen.
As for extra capacity it is likely that we are never going to need it. Why? The price of oil will put an end to the need for Airport expansion, that's why.
There was a window of opportunity to replace Heathrow 30 years ago and it was lost. It will never be resurrected. Despite the confused mutterings of a deranged blond twit. Boy, but the people of London are going to reap what they sowed there!
Boris can't even find the money to fund Crossrail how can he fund an airport that NEEDS new transport links to make it work, of which crossrail is only one?
