LEEDS 5
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Ryanair
Hi
Ryanair would incur the same expenses. For example, if I had a return ticket Leeds - Palma - Leeds with Ryanair, and then got stuck in Palma, I am entitled to "care" under the EU261 law. This is three meals per day, accomodation and telephone calls/telex etc.
Ryanair would incur the same expenses. For example, if I had a return ticket Leeds - Palma - Leeds with Ryanair, and then got stuck in Palma, I am entitled to "care" under the EU261 law. This is three meals per day, accomodation and telephone calls/telex etc.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: North, UK
Age: 67
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I doubt the PIA flight going to MAn is any reflection on LBA, airlines are flying people back where they can, for example EK took people to LGW, SQ are also operatng extra flights to MAN.
So I feel the conspiracy theories are a little over blown.
So I feel the conspiracy theories are a little over blown.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: manchester
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with regards to the PIA, its nothing personal against LBA.
LBA cant handle a B773 with a (very) heavy load, and right now PIA need to get its pax moving as quickly as possible. Its better for them to run B773's to the UK rather than A310's, hence why MAN has got your services for a while.
As for your monday flight, im pretty sure PIA didnt move it back to MAN just to p**s people off. If there was a growing trend of more LBA pax, or pax in general flying from MAN on a monday, thats where PIA thought best to utilise its resources.
LBA cant handle a B773 with a (very) heavy load, and right now PIA need to get its pax moving as quickly as possible. Its better for them to run B773's to the UK rather than A310's, hence why MAN has got your services for a while.
As for your monday flight, im pretty sure PIA didnt move it back to MAN just to p**s people off. If there was a growing trend of more LBA pax, or pax in general flying from MAN on a monday, thats where PIA thought best to utilise its resources.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: 6 miles 14
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Sorry you are probably right but if LBA cant handle a 773 with a heavy load which I fully accept then why not land the LBA pax at LBA and if prevailing conditions don't allow a direct return off 14 then position somewhere(MAN/DSA) on low fuel and top up for the long haul. TOM do this for their cruise flights when conditions are not favourable. Surely this would be cheaper than bussing a 773 load across the pennines!
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: manchester
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I think it is cheaper by coach. plus, If you have a tech stop at MAN, you may as well run the service from MAN.
For the tech stop at MAN from LBA, you would need:
2x airport fees
extra fuel to hop to MAN, then refuel at MAN for the trip
could affect crewing hours
would need to be guaranteed a slot at MAN for the tech stop
With a large ops programme from MAN, id think it unlikely they would use DSA for a tech stop.
For the tech stop at MAN from LBA, you would need:
2x airport fees
extra fuel to hop to MAN, then refuel at MAN for the trip
could affect crewing hours
would need to be guaranteed a slot at MAN for the tech stop
With a large ops programme from MAN, id think it unlikely they would use DSA for a tech stop.
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Good points, but what if the ac could get off LBA as temp/wind were favourable. Lets face it at the moment the evening temps are hardly high and todays PK775 is not due until 1900. I just hate to see pax messed around tike this if it is not essential.
BTW does anyone know if a 752WL could make ISB non stop?
BTW does anyone know if a 752WL could make ISB non stop?
Join Date: Apr 2004
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That assumes that it is inconvenient for the passengers to go to manchester, for many it may be as easy to get home from MAN as LBA, I thought a lot of people from the East side of Manchester used the LBA service. You would assume anyway that PIA have given the matter serious consideration and feel this is the best option.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Bradford
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I'm going to get shot down for this, but PIA will not be a major loss for the airport. Those flights cause nothing but problems. The aircraft is always late, causes a high level of complaints from residents due to the night flying restrictions for noise aircraft. The passengers can be awful at times, I have never met such rude women who do not move for disabled passengers and are quite happy to talk down to white female passengers. The airport cannot make any money from PIA operations as the passengers do not purchase car parking, fastrack or spend any money in the terminal. Quite simply LBA does not have the infrastructure to deal with the amount of people who come to see relatives off for the flights,
The airport will loose credibility for future long haul links, but I’m going to be really honest here, Leeds Bradford will never be a long haul airport, the likes of NYC, Dubai etc are completely unrealistic in the foreseeable future. Even should the 'new terminal' (very much in inverted commas) be done, the airport still has very limited runway and taxiway infrastructure. The only long haul hopes could be from either Jet2, Thomas Cook or charter airlines i.e. Air Transat. I believe this is much more likely and will be happening in the next 12-24 months. Leeds Bradford is a great little airport, if PIA choose to stay, then great. If they don't then LBA need to stick to what they do well, that is low cost, charter and business services to Europe. I hate to talk like this, as I’m very loyal to LBA and a dedicated employee but there really needs to be a sense of reality. I'm afraid the wrong people bought the airport, money has dried up. The airport needs a massive shake up, which involves loosing some of the security and management staff, some who have been there for years and their customer service skills are none existent considering one of the airport keystones is excellent customer service.
Watch this space, keep an eye out in the Yorkshire Post property pages, if you see an airport for sale (with planning permission) for around £180 million, its not Doncaster, Humberside or Durham Tees.
The airport will loose credibility for future long haul links, but I’m going to be really honest here, Leeds Bradford will never be a long haul airport, the likes of NYC, Dubai etc are completely unrealistic in the foreseeable future. Even should the 'new terminal' (very much in inverted commas) be done, the airport still has very limited runway and taxiway infrastructure. The only long haul hopes could be from either Jet2, Thomas Cook or charter airlines i.e. Air Transat. I believe this is much more likely and will be happening in the next 12-24 months. Leeds Bradford is a great little airport, if PIA choose to stay, then great. If they don't then LBA need to stick to what they do well, that is low cost, charter and business services to Europe. I hate to talk like this, as I’m very loyal to LBA and a dedicated employee but there really needs to be a sense of reality. I'm afraid the wrong people bought the airport, money has dried up. The airport needs a massive shake up, which involves loosing some of the security and management staff, some who have been there for years and their customer service skills are none existent considering one of the airport keystones is excellent customer service.
Watch this space, keep an eye out in the Yorkshire Post property pages, if you see an airport for sale (with planning permission) for around £180 million, its not Doncaster, Humberside or Durham Tees.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Leeds
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righthandrule,
you have some very valid points. i think everyone knows LBA will never really live up to some peoples expectations. Realistically we could have long haul services in the future, but only with carriers that operate smaller long haul equipment i.e B752WL, A310 ect. As for PIA, i have to admit i know quite a few people who work up at the airport who dread the days they operate their flights here. their time keeping on some days is awful. i dont know if this is the same for their operations ex UK (MAN/GLA/BHX/LHR) although i still think it would be a loss if they left. there definitely is a market for the ISB route, im not sure about the loads but surely they must be filling the AC or they would have up'd and left a while ago?
you have some very valid points. i think everyone knows LBA will never really live up to some peoples expectations. Realistically we could have long haul services in the future, but only with carriers that operate smaller long haul equipment i.e B752WL, A310 ect. As for PIA, i have to admit i know quite a few people who work up at the airport who dread the days they operate their flights here. their time keeping on some days is awful. i dont know if this is the same for their operations ex UK (MAN/GLA/BHX/LHR) although i still think it would be a loss if they left. there definitely is a market for the ISB route, im not sure about the loads but surely they must be filling the AC or they would have up'd and left a while ago?
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Superior City WYLDS
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PIA...
I read in someone's post that PIA moved Mondays LBA-ISB to Manchester because that is where the pax wanted to fly from!!! Well this is rubbish, PIA are in a lot of trouble at the moment with extremely late arrivals and departures from Leeds, as already mentioned there has been a huge influx of complaints about noise specially from the late departing A310, now due to the number of complaints and the local authorities getting involved, LBA and PIA decided to cut the Monday service so this would reduce the amount of take off and landing noise, change the arrival and departure time of the existing PIA flights to allow for the 23.00 shut of time and they will be using a newer and quieter aircraft later on this summer for the ISB service, this aircraft will more than likely be a B777-200 and should start ops around June/July this year..
LBA are also looking at changing the angle of descent for landing aircraft and moving the TDZ, this should give landing aircraft more of the runway to stop on, without them having to use excessive reverse thrust.....
This is what i have been told, but i obviously cannot be 100% sure of any information i have been given.........if you know more, then please drop a line into the forum...
LBA are also looking at changing the angle of descent for landing aircraft and moving the TDZ, this should give landing aircraft more of the runway to stop on, without them having to use excessive reverse thrust.....
This is what i have been told, but i obviously cannot be 100% sure of any information i have been given.........if you know more, then please drop a line into the forum...
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Up until the restart of flying since the volcanic eruption, the previous time PIA broke the nighttime curfew on non chapter 3 compliant noise regulations was last year. It has taken the council all that time to realise it but that's Leeds City Council for you! 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Leeds
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Not at all Leodis - the airport company have to report to the Council each month as part of the original planning conditions from 1994 associated with 24 hour ops. The full council report on the matter may help clarify
http://democracy.leeds.gov.uk/Publis...gReport_v1.pdf
Righthandrule and Runway 32/14 will be interested in what it has to say about complaints from local residents.
682
http://democracy.leeds.gov.uk/Publis...gReport_v1.pdf
Righthandrule and Runway 32/14 will be interested in what it has to say about complaints from local residents.
682
I'm at a loss to see what, if anything, Bridgepoint have done to enhance LBA since they bought the place. Apart from building yet another long stay car park a mile from the terminal I haven't seen any changes.
I'n beginning to agree with those folk who say that the wrong company bought LBA. Sadly, I fear there will be little significant investment before Bridgepoint decide to do a runner. We'd probably be close to getting a brand new terminal now instead of the fudge that is the latest attempt to do up the existing one. Incidentally, when is this going to happen ? Just wish they'd taken a leaf out of BHX's book circa 1984 and started again when it was obvious the old terminal couldn't be expanded or improved any more. But no.
Amazing how an indeterminate amount of b
g about behind the scenes results in a vast amount of nowt front of house. 
I'n beginning to agree with those folk who say that the wrong company bought LBA. Sadly, I fear there will be little significant investment before Bridgepoint decide to do a runner. We'd probably be close to getting a brand new terminal now instead of the fudge that is the latest attempt to do up the existing one. Incidentally, when is this going to happen ? Just wish they'd taken a leaf out of BHX's book circa 1984 and started again when it was obvious the old terminal couldn't be expanded or improved any more. But no.
Amazing how an indeterminate amount of b
g about behind the scenes results in a vast amount of nowt front of house.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Leeds
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682ft AMSL,
That council document is quite an interesting read. the recommendations are sensible and realistic.I don't live in any of the affected areas but I think most of Leeds can hear the late departure of the A310. but my question would be even if they upgraded the aircraft to a 777, cut the amount of flights, would this really solve the problem of their time keeping issues? operationally would PIA even agree to these ideas?
That council document is quite an interesting read. the recommendations are sensible and realistic.I don't live in any of the affected areas but I think most of Leeds can hear the late departure of the A310. but my question would be even if they upgraded the aircraft to a 777, cut the amount of flights, would this really solve the problem of their time keeping issues? operationally would PIA even agree to these ideas?
Join Date: Jan 2006
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PIA
Could it be the type of aircraft?
BHX is an all 777 operation and I would have said from local knowledge
that PIA's time keeping is very good for a long-haul operation.
However flightstats did not quite back up my theory for the period
15/2/10-15/04/10 as it only showed it went on time 53% of the time
with an average delay of 32 minutes.
However this could be skewed by snow closures but I can't remember.
I stand by my initial statement that PIA are generally very good.
Pete
BHX is an all 777 operation and I would have said from local knowledge
that PIA's time keeping is very good for a long-haul operation.
However flightstats did not quite back up my theory for the period
15/2/10-15/04/10 as it only showed it went on time 53% of the time
with an average delay of 32 minutes.
However this could be skewed by snow closures but I can't remember.
I stand by my initial statement that PIA are generally very good.
Pete
Join Date: Feb 2002
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EXS258
How exactly can they cut flights? They have just dropped from 3 to 2 weekly! Are you seriously suggesting its worth going to a weekly flight just because you have increased the capacity by around 50%?
Surely this would not be worth the effort. The 772 should be used to bring the capacity back up to the 3 weekly A310 levels with some modest growth on a 2 weekly basis.
How exactly can they cut flights? They have just dropped from 3 to 2 weekly! Are you seriously suggesting its worth going to a weekly flight just because you have increased the capacity by around 50%?
Surely this would not be worth the effort. The 772 should be used to bring the capacity back up to the 3 weekly A310 levels with some modest growth on a 2 weekly basis.
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Hooded.
I never said it would be worth while, but if these recommendations were made to PIA the question i asked is would they agree to them. theres no doubt the introduction of the ISB route has been positive for the LBA and the surrounding area, allowing passengers travelling to Pakistan to fly from their local airport rather than MAN, but there are issues with their operation that needs to be dealt with, im sure a few of the delays are beyond control of PIA such as the snow earlier this year.
I never said it would be worth while, but if these recommendations were made to PIA the question i asked is would they agree to them. theres no doubt the introduction of the ISB route has been positive for the LBA and the surrounding area, allowing passengers travelling to Pakistan to fly from their local airport rather than MAN, but there are issues with their operation that needs to be dealt with, im sure a few of the delays are beyond control of PIA such as the snow earlier this year.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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I think if you refer to the people who deal with PIA in Manchester they have the same issues as at LBA. I am not sure but I think PK are the worse performing airline there too.