LEEDS 5
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Well I expect you know yourself : Exeter not since South West ; Cardiff not for years ; Inverness not since T3 dropped it. Dundee never. Bristol, Edinburgh and Gatwick have all been tried several times but Cross Country and East Coast have upped their game in various respects. Have I left any out? Those days of thin long distance services excepting oil destinations and excepting across the water seem to me largely a thing of the past.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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I like the PR spin about a KLM connection to DXB via AMS using a 777 on the last leg. Do we ignore the 3nr direct flights from MAN with a 380 on two of them. Chauffer drive to the airport for free from most of West Yorkshire as well for Premium class,s . Not to mention the marked difference between KLM and EK standard of service. Its grabbing at straws is that by LBA.
Regards
Mr Mac
I like the PR spin about a KLM connection to DXB via AMS using a 777 on the last leg. Do we ignore the 3nr direct flights from MAN with a 380 on two of them. Chauffer drive to the airport for free from most of West Yorkshire as well for Premium class,s . Not to mention the marked difference between KLM and EK standard of service. Its grabbing at straws is that by LBA.
Regards
Mr Mac
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Yes, perhaps they should have tried to get EK to do Dubai from LBA then. Shame they're getting rid of the A330s and cancelled their A350s. But then again they're probably filling a 77W from MAN with Yorkshire passengers daily so they won't want to operate from LBA. It's a bit like PIA really the pax are there but it's better to operate from an established base and make the pax come to them. Sad but that's the reality.
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They are not getting rid of the A330's for a while yet, however the A340's are going rapidly. The A330's are used on short/medium haul middle eastern routes and to open up new European destinations, such as the recent Budapest route and they have also operated to Warsaw recently and much like they did to Newcastle before the 777 upgrade.
Of course it is far easier to get the passengers to come to the airport (in MAN's case) and there is no question that MAN is hugely successful for Emirates. However, the conurbations of the North West and Yorkshire are very large, and it is all well and good saying Emirates could go 4th daily to MAN, however any departure time ex the UK or Dubai other than they current three departures would be pretty rubbish for onward connections. The whole of the EK network is planned on three main departure/arrival waves. Adding another flight ex MAN say at 11:00 or 17:00 or 23:00 would not offer anything realistic. Before someone barks at me about the EK departure times from LHR to DXB... that route is dramatically different and carries a much larger point to point amount of customers that rely on frequency between Dubai and London and not on connections. MAN however is much heavier with onward connections and the point to point traffic is minimal.
The point that I am getting at, is that Emirates could up gauge the 3rd flight to MAN to an A380, which is very realistic. However long term, there are a hell of a lot of aircraft that they will be receiving each year. Increasing from 777 to 380 is a decent percentage increase but in the long term (5-10 years) growth opportunities are limited at the current UK airports Emirates serve, in comparison to their forecasted passenger growth.
Whilst I doubt it will happen in the next few years, I think routes to Dubai from other UK airports, the likes of Leeds, East Mids, Bristol and Edinburgh may seem like a pipe dream but are fairly possible with A330/B777-200 aircraft. Emirates have set their eyes on the passengers that BA/KLM/Lufthansa etc carry from the UK eastbound and win pretty much hands down on every count. They literally have hundreds of aircraft on order, and with a very young fleet, and the new DWC airport... the next 10 years are going to be game changing for the European aviation industry as they really are going for worldwide connections and are going to need as much feed as possible from the west. I have family in Dubai and Abu Dhabi that actually use KLM from LBA as it is often cheaper than Emirates - there is definitely a potential market.
An A330 from LBA-DXB would be ideal, the affluent community around LBA would no doubt help support point to point to Dubai, and also connections to exotic holiday destinations, and the local asian community would clearly support onward connections to Pakistan and India. We just need to sit and wait and hope Tony Hallwood takes the Sheikhs out for a few fancy dinners
Of course it is far easier to get the passengers to come to the airport (in MAN's case) and there is no question that MAN is hugely successful for Emirates. However, the conurbations of the North West and Yorkshire are very large, and it is all well and good saying Emirates could go 4th daily to MAN, however any departure time ex the UK or Dubai other than they current three departures would be pretty rubbish for onward connections. The whole of the EK network is planned on three main departure/arrival waves. Adding another flight ex MAN say at 11:00 or 17:00 or 23:00 would not offer anything realistic. Before someone barks at me about the EK departure times from LHR to DXB... that route is dramatically different and carries a much larger point to point amount of customers that rely on frequency between Dubai and London and not on connections. MAN however is much heavier with onward connections and the point to point traffic is minimal.
The point that I am getting at, is that Emirates could up gauge the 3rd flight to MAN to an A380, which is very realistic. However long term, there are a hell of a lot of aircraft that they will be receiving each year. Increasing from 777 to 380 is a decent percentage increase but in the long term (5-10 years) growth opportunities are limited at the current UK airports Emirates serve, in comparison to their forecasted passenger growth.
Whilst I doubt it will happen in the next few years, I think routes to Dubai from other UK airports, the likes of Leeds, East Mids, Bristol and Edinburgh may seem like a pipe dream but are fairly possible with A330/B777-200 aircraft. Emirates have set their eyes on the passengers that BA/KLM/Lufthansa etc carry from the UK eastbound and win pretty much hands down on every count. They literally have hundreds of aircraft on order, and with a very young fleet, and the new DWC airport... the next 10 years are going to be game changing for the European aviation industry as they really are going for worldwide connections and are going to need as much feed as possible from the west. I have family in Dubai and Abu Dhabi that actually use KLM from LBA as it is often cheaper than Emirates - there is definitely a potential market.
An A330 from LBA-DXB would be ideal, the affluent community around LBA would no doubt help support point to point to Dubai, and also connections to exotic holiday destinations, and the local asian community would clearly support onward connections to Pakistan and India. We just need to sit and wait and hope Tony Hallwood takes the Sheikhs out for a few fancy dinners
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MAN however is much heavier with onward connections and the point to point traffic is minimal.
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Adding another flight ex MAN say at 11:00 or 17:00 or 23:00 would not offer anything realistic. Before someone barks at me about the EK departure times from LHR to DXB... that route is dramatically different and carries a much larger point to point amount of customers that rely on frequency between Dubai and London and not on connections.
Adding a flight to MAN using a similar timing to the EK29 at LHR could relieve pressure on the EK18, and also catch the back end of the main hub wave. Also, a B777 will add the cargo capacity that MAN is now well down on.
MAN however is much heavier with onward connections and the point to point traffic is minimal.
Its also worth rememberig that Dubai is working hard in becoming a destination in its own right.
In other words, its not as easy to rule out a 4th daily flight at MAN as you seem to think.
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Of course, I fully agree.
What I'm trying to say though, is a 13:00-14:00 departure from LBA/EMA/BRS or wherever else, would have greater scope to add value to the overall picture of the Emirates network of connections as apposed to an extra flight from MAN at an unsuitable time to really have a major benefit other than some very tight or middle east connections.
Dubai is indeed working to be a tourist destination, I have actually lived here for nearly 2 years now but still class myself as a UK resident. However the UK-Dubai tourist market is still very limited. The majority of tourists (al-la package holiday that we know as tourists) come from Russia, the Brits still love a week in Tenerife in the winter and have yet to fully embrace Dubai. Whilst the numbers are significant, the bigger percentage of point to point traffic to/from Dubai is visiting friends and relatives traffic. In any case, like I said, adding capacity to MAN is clearly the primary and almost certain next step, but in the long term, increasing the range of destinations is for sure how they will continue to grow. The MAN/BHX/GLA die hard fans will for sure be in favour of growth at their respective airports but other airlines clearly see decent potential at airports such as LBA/EMA/BRS/GLA etc and with Emirates rate of growth, they will be after any slice of the pie they can. I mean lets face it, who the hell would have ever thought BA would touch LBA with a barge pole, and now they have made a success of it.
What I'm trying to say though, is a 13:00-14:00 departure from LBA/EMA/BRS or wherever else, would have greater scope to add value to the overall picture of the Emirates network of connections as apposed to an extra flight from MAN at an unsuitable time to really have a major benefit other than some very tight or middle east connections.
Dubai is indeed working to be a tourist destination, I have actually lived here for nearly 2 years now but still class myself as a UK resident. However the UK-Dubai tourist market is still very limited. The majority of tourists (al-la package holiday that we know as tourists) come from Russia, the Brits still love a week in Tenerife in the winter and have yet to fully embrace Dubai. Whilst the numbers are significant, the bigger percentage of point to point traffic to/from Dubai is visiting friends and relatives traffic. In any case, like I said, adding capacity to MAN is clearly the primary and almost certain next step, but in the long term, increasing the range of destinations is for sure how they will continue to grow. The MAN/BHX/GLA die hard fans will for sure be in favour of growth at their respective airports but other airlines clearly see decent potential at airports such as LBA/EMA/BRS/GLA etc and with Emirates rate of growth, they will be after any slice of the pie they can. I mean lets face it, who the hell would have ever thought BA would touch LBA with a barge pole, and now they have made a success of it.
No its a slot sitter. It's official, well it's on the Heathrow thread as such. Just passed 250000 pax since it started....
Join Date: May 2013
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I think there could be a place for EK at LBA, possibly if they re-order the A350's or order some 787's/A330neo's. Having said that a 77L/77W could likely operate "no problem" from LBA, apart from taxiing a 77W at LBA might take a bit of careful nurture and getting used to, I've heard LBA can be tight.
Speaking of Emirates' waves, when is their third and smallest wave? But they are going to get a lot more complicated than they are now, I won't envy the poor guys in charge of organising it all when DWC opens
Speaking of Emirates' waves, when is their third and smallest wave? But they are going to get a lot more complicated than they are now, I won't envy the poor guys in charge of organising it all when DWC opens
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No its a slot sitter. It's official, well it's on the Heathrow thread as such. Just passed 250000 pax since it started....
Some one on the Heathrow thread saying that it's a slot sitter, is not sufficient evidence to back up this assertion.
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Temporary for a reason
In 2003/4 check in hall B was constructed at LBIA. It was built due to Jet2's rapid growth brought about by the deal that the joint council owners of the airport had facilitated with Jet2.
The check in hall was a fabric containing tent like structure. The structure was designed to be temporary because the councils admitted that they did not have the funds to provide a proper enlarged terminal building.
Eventually the councils decided to sell the airport to a company that could build the necessary terminal enlargement. Various extensions to planning applications have led the temporary check in hall to have now lasted approaching 11 years.
Now we hear that the airport owners want to make this temporary building into a permanent building while at the same time giving no guarantees on when any actual terminal enlargement will begin.
Well Leeds City Council now is your time to stand your ground (or there was never any point in you selling LBA). The temporary check in hall B building should only be kept standing if a proper terminal expansion is begun in the next 6 months.
The recession is over so why are B757s being parked on the taxiways? Why no building of extra aircraft stands in the last 8 years?
MAN, BHX, BRS, NCL, EDI, LCY etc etc all growing fast so can the recession really be still trotted out as an excuse?
LBA is in the wrong location, it is very poorly connected, it has too short a runway, it has a runway perpendicular to prevailing wind, it has an obstruction at the end of one runway, it has a valley at the end of one runway, it is the highest above sea level civil airport in Britain and is frequently affected by weather, it has very little flat land to develop.
Leeds City Council polish and polish and polish as much as you like it's time you gave the people of Leeds and Yorkshire something a little less temporary.
The check in hall was a fabric containing tent like structure. The structure was designed to be temporary because the councils admitted that they did not have the funds to provide a proper enlarged terminal building.
Eventually the councils decided to sell the airport to a company that could build the necessary terminal enlargement. Various extensions to planning applications have led the temporary check in hall to have now lasted approaching 11 years.
Now we hear that the airport owners want to make this temporary building into a permanent building while at the same time giving no guarantees on when any actual terminal enlargement will begin.
Well Leeds City Council now is your time to stand your ground (or there was never any point in you selling LBA). The temporary check in hall B building should only be kept standing if a proper terminal expansion is begun in the next 6 months.
The recession is over so why are B757s being parked on the taxiways? Why no building of extra aircraft stands in the last 8 years?
MAN, BHX, BRS, NCL, EDI, LCY etc etc all growing fast so can the recession really be still trotted out as an excuse?
LBA is in the wrong location, it is very poorly connected, it has too short a runway, it has a runway perpendicular to prevailing wind, it has an obstruction at the end of one runway, it has a valley at the end of one runway, it is the highest above sea level civil airport in Britain and is frequently affected by weather, it has very little flat land to develop.
Leeds City Council polish and polish and polish as much as you like it's time you gave the people of Leeds and Yorkshire something a little less temporary.
Join Date: May 2013
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To be fair like I wouldn't say NCL is growing rapidly. A shadow of it's former self in terms of growth/being one of the fastest growing in the UK, but hopefully with United comes prosperity, I look forward to breaching 5mppa once again in the near future!
Anyway back to LBA, I find it a perfectly pleasant airport to travel from and it was the first airport I passed through unaccompanied, LBA-BGY-LBA in August 2012 when I was 14.
Anyway back to LBA, I find it a perfectly pleasant airport to travel from and it was the first airport I passed through unaccompanied, LBA-BGY-LBA in August 2012 when I was 14.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Just came through LBA on the way back from Ireland. Very quiet but a lot of parked up A/C, is it always so quiet on a Wednesday.
Regards
Mr Mac.
Regards
Mr Mac.
Mr Mac - In February, mid week at most regional airports is quiet
Leeds Approach - other than being the planning authority (?) what influence do Leeds City Council still have?
Leeds Approach - other than being the planning authority (?) what influence do Leeds City Council still have?
Join Date: Jun 2007
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SWBKCB
It was not just quiet, but there were a number of parked up Boeings with Jet 2 logos 8+ which all seemed as though they had been shut down for some time. Odd place to store a plane for winter if that is what it is. Anyway I do not use the place much so this maybe as you say std for a Feb mid week day at LBA.
Regards
Mr Mac
It was not just quiet, but there were a number of parked up Boeings with Jet 2 logos 8+ which all seemed as though they had been shut down for some time. Odd place to store a plane for winter if that is what it is. Anyway I do not use the place much so this maybe as you say std for a Feb mid week day at LBA.
Regards
Mr Mac