British Airways: risk of turbulence on Willie Walsh’s flight path
Paxing All Over The World
Tea Coffee Or Me
This was covered earlier in the thread, methinks.
Looking (briefly) at the way corporates behave when there is an almighty clanx up, the Board tend to react in one of three ways.
The main reason for not going for option one is that it confirms to shareholders and the world that they (the main board) made a mistake. That would put the individual members of the Board at risk of being unseated by the shareholders and the Board do not want to lose their lovely jobs.
Time will tell if my thoughts are too cynical ...
Wilie Walsh has been very lucky to hang onto his job after T5. Why?
Looking (briefly) at the way corporates behave when there is an almighty clanx up, the Board tend to react in one of three ways.
- Immediately fire the person at the top.
- Pretend that everything in the garden is actually just fine but, behind the scenes, hand out some punishment.
- Apologise for disruption and state that everything is under control. However, the person at the top will realise that the skids are under them. This usually results in the person leaving a few years later with a small bonus and a big laurel wreath saying what a fabulous job has been done.
The main reason for not going for option one is that it confirms to shareholders and the world that they (the main board) made a mistake. That would put the individual members of the Board at risk of being unseated by the shareholders and the Board do not want to lose their lovely jobs.
Time will tell if my thoughts are too cynical ...
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BA Transfer Passengers to OS
Already there are instances where passengers who would have booked BA from JFK to CDG via LHR, are being encouraged to fly Openskies to Orly.
Allegedly upgrades are being offered as a sweetener. If this is true, not only is BA Mainline paying and subsidising OS, we are losing customers to the operation as well.
Allegedly upgrades are being offered as a sweetener. If this is true, not only is BA Mainline paying and subsidising OS, we are losing customers to the operation as well.
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Good point. I think that the official BA line is that OS is not competing with/taking business from Mainline. Given the congestion at LHR I can see the sense of having fewer Continental pax transiting through this airport. There's probably nothing new in BA thinking this way: I seem to remember that one of the reasons why a merger with KLM looked so attractive to BA was the idea that UK regional pax could be routed via AMS rather than LHR.
Last edited by Seat62K; 13th Jul 2008 at 09:03. Reason: tidying up
Re Post #122
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My mate told some BA blokes the other day who he worked for (OS) and they started booing him and that's the sort of attitude you expect from high living BA dandies now!
If your BA loads are 100% etc blah blah and OS not filling them then you've got nothing to worry about have you?
I expect OS is there to take the market away from the yank airlines.
If your BA loads are 100% etc blah blah and OS not filling them then you've got nothing to worry about have you?
I expect OS is there to take the market away from the yank airlines.
Tea Coffee or Me
100% load factors mean diddly squat.......it is all about yield, you can always fill an aeroplane.
I notice that you have just done a "back to back" forgive me but I thought this network is for Professional Pilots!
I notice that you have just done a "back to back" forgive me but I thought this network is for Professional Pilots!
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I seem to remember that one of the reasons why a merger with KLM looked so attractive to BA was the idea that UK regional pax could be routed via AMS rather than LHR.
S.
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On 1st July PIB posted
"Apparently Walsh is trying to sue BALPA over damage to reputation caused by the Opensewer row.This is the sort of person we are dealing with and people like you give him succour when they read your comments. Most of the staff of BA only got .8 of a weeks bonus pay, whilst Walsh and other Directors get 100%."
1. WW did not sue BALPA. BALPA sued BA and ended up withdrawing their suit and paying costs.
2. You say that BA directors got 100% bonus. 100% of what? A week? A month? A year's salary? Easy to write, not easy to substantiate. BASSA behaviour writ large. Chuck around some garbage, if it lands, it'll smell.
3. I understood WW refused his bonus.
4. Will you turn yours down?
Oh, and since it was mentioned, if BA wants to increase it's capacity to recruit CC or reduce it's recruitment needs, it can do so without drawing breath.
Keep howling at the moon!
"Apparently Walsh is trying to sue BALPA over damage to reputation caused by the Opensewer row.This is the sort of person we are dealing with and people like you give him succour when they read your comments. Most of the staff of BA only got .8 of a weeks bonus pay, whilst Walsh and other Directors get 100%."
1. WW did not sue BALPA. BALPA sued BA and ended up withdrawing their suit and paying costs.
2. You say that BA directors got 100% bonus. 100% of what? A week? A month? A year's salary? Easy to write, not easy to substantiate. BASSA behaviour writ large. Chuck around some garbage, if it lands, it'll smell.
3. I understood WW refused his bonus.
4. Will you turn yours down?
Oh, and since it was mentioned, if BA wants to increase it's capacity to recruit CC or reduce it's recruitment needs, it can do so without drawing breath.
Keep howling at the moon!
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Excuse the drift on to OS, but.
In the future we will see passengers flying LON-PAR-NYC on BA.
In the future we will see passengers flying PAR-LON-NYC/LAX on AF
This list will grow and grow.
This may not be a very Green way to go.
Most Airlines will be in for a bumpy ride the next 3 years, some will fair better than others, it will be interesting to see how AZ fair.
In the future we will see passengers flying LON-PAR-NYC on BA.
In the future we will see passengers flying PAR-LON-NYC/LAX on AF
This list will grow and grow.
This may not be a very Green way to go.
Most Airlines will be in for a bumpy ride the next 3 years, some will fair better than others, it will be interesting to see how AZ fair.
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Coffee says
"Already there are instances where passengers who would have booked BA from JFK to CDG via LHR, are being encouraged to fly Openskies to Orly.
Allegedly upgrades are being offered as a sweetener. If this is true, not only is BA Mainline paying and subsidising OS, we are losing customers to the operation as well."
More BASSA "news management" I fear.
Fuel at $145+ a barrel and you're worried about a 6 or 7 hull airline?
Yikes!!
"Already there are instances where passengers who would have booked BA from JFK to CDG via LHR, are being encouraged to fly Openskies to Orly.
Allegedly upgrades are being offered as a sweetener. If this is true, not only is BA Mainline paying and subsidising OS, we are losing customers to the operation as well."
More BASSA "news management" I fear.
Fuel at $145+ a barrel and you're worried about a 6 or 7 hull airline?
Yikes!!
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Willie Walsh did not turn down his bonus, but deferred it. You need to get your facts right 900. He has also had a £35,000 pay rise this year.
On a recent trip, the junior two ringer First Officer was an ex RyanAir Captain. He gave up to come to BA because he said his prevous job was "killing him".
Unfortunately 900, todays 5 or 7 hull airline will become much larger, based on the pay and conditions that the ex RyanAir Captain has joined BA to avoid. Also this "airline" is flying very fuel inefficient 757's at oil at U$145 a barrel as you point out.
BA profit share was less than a weeks salary for the majority of employees. Directors were entitled to a years pay as a bonus, which is 100% by the way 900. Do you really fly airplanes?
Of course, you would like to see pay and conditions for your pilot colleagues reduced to that of RyanAir. What an achievement that would be!
On a recent trip, the junior two ringer First Officer was an ex RyanAir Captain. He gave up to come to BA because he said his prevous job was "killing him".
Unfortunately 900, todays 5 or 7 hull airline will become much larger, based on the pay and conditions that the ex RyanAir Captain has joined BA to avoid. Also this "airline" is flying very fuel inefficient 757's at oil at U$145 a barrel as you point out.
BA profit share was less than a weeks salary for the majority of employees. Directors were entitled to a years pay as a bonus, which is 100% by the way 900. Do you really fly airplanes?
Of course, you would like to see pay and conditions for your pilot colleagues reduced to that of RyanAir. What an achievement that would be!
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BA Mainline paying and subsidising OS, we are losing customers to the operation as well."
This is exactly what happened with GO so why does it seem to be a suprise. Any start up will always offer upgrades and perks to gain a customer base asap. Its business?
This is exactly what happened with GO so why does it seem to be a suprise. Any start up will always offer upgrades and perks to gain a customer base asap. Its business?
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Originally Posted by 900
1. WW did not sue BALPA. BALPA sued BA and ended up withdrawing their suit and paying costs.
3. I understood WW refused his bonus.
Controversial, moi?
1. WW did not sue BALPA. BALPA sued BA and ended up withdrawing their suit and paying costs.
the lunatic fringe
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You BA clowns should try working for some of the ****house airlines we have to fly for!!
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@ King Halibut,
stop sniping away, it's obvious you failed the BA interview (25th June) after flying for Jet2 (which you refer to as one of your ****house airlines). We're only trying to keep what we've got. Stop calling me a BA clown just because I am now BA 'mainline'. I used to fly for a ****house airline, but actually did something about it and tried to improve T&C's.
We have enough sad snipers who think other people will solve their issues.
stop sniping away, it's obvious you failed the BA interview (25th June) after flying for Jet2 (which you refer to as one of your ****house airlines). We're only trying to keep what we've got. Stop calling me a BA clown just because I am now BA 'mainline'. I used to fly for a ****house airline, but actually did something about it and tried to improve T&C's.
We have enough sad snipers who think other people will solve their issues.
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THe same can be said for BA cabin crew, many of whom came from "****house" airlines. PiB took a lot of stick on this forum, but he is right about defending T&C's at BA.
No Cabin Crew have ever left BA to go fly for VIRGIN, it is all one way traffic. As PiB said earlier in the thread, it is only people who didn't make the grade who are so vocal about BA employees having their T&C's cut.
No Cabin Crew have ever left BA to go fly for VIRGIN, it is all one way traffic. As PiB said earlier in the thread, it is only people who didn't make the grade who are so vocal about BA employees having their T&C's cut.
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It's amusing listening to the quaint views of the BA blow-hards that BA is "the best" and T&C's "must be defended at all costs if it is to remain so".
The outrageous T&C's that BA enjoy are there because 1) they were industry standard when they were introduced and 2) no-one in management ever had the stomach for the fight that would ensue bringing them back to "normal" standards 20 years later.
For 20 years flight and cabin crew unions haven't had to "fight" anyone for retaining these unbelieveably generous T&C's, they've just had to grumble a few threats and the management cave in for an easy life. Only now that the company is facing real long-term problems has anyone in senior management pulled their finger out of their @$$es to "fight" and look what happens? They won without a fight. What message has that sent throughout the company? More is to come no doubt.
So now we get a bunch of hand-wringing about "big" BA vs. "little" BALPA and how it's an unfair fight, uneven playing field etc etc. It's taken this long for the management to realise this, and now they WILL win regardless.
We can all lose sleep and reduce flight safety by moaning and whingeing about it all the working day, but it's time to face the facts - BA is a dinosaur, flying crew are grossly pampered and overpaid for what we do, and LGW/OS is the future of mainline.
The current management team have realised that the best way to survive and grow in the current climate is to reduce highly-paid employee longevity by reducing the starting conditions for new joiners (eg BARP pension, LGW/LHR new joiners contracts) and to pi$$ off the middle order of the current serving employees and drive some of them out the door. From the stuff in this thread, that strategy is working well!
The outrageous T&C's that BA enjoy are there because 1) they were industry standard when they were introduced and 2) no-one in management ever had the stomach for the fight that would ensue bringing them back to "normal" standards 20 years later.
For 20 years flight and cabin crew unions haven't had to "fight" anyone for retaining these unbelieveably generous T&C's, they've just had to grumble a few threats and the management cave in for an easy life. Only now that the company is facing real long-term problems has anyone in senior management pulled their finger out of their @$$es to "fight" and look what happens? They won without a fight. What message has that sent throughout the company? More is to come no doubt.
So now we get a bunch of hand-wringing about "big" BA vs. "little" BALPA and how it's an unfair fight, uneven playing field etc etc. It's taken this long for the management to realise this, and now they WILL win regardless.
We can all lose sleep and reduce flight safety by moaning and whingeing about it all the working day, but it's time to face the facts - BA is a dinosaur, flying crew are grossly pampered and overpaid for what we do, and LGW/OS is the future of mainline.
The current management team have realised that the best way to survive and grow in the current climate is to reduce highly-paid employee longevity by reducing the starting conditions for new joiners (eg BARP pension, LGW/LHR new joiners contracts) and to pi$$ off the middle order of the current serving employees and drive some of them out the door. From the stuff in this thread, that strategy is working well!
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Shaka Zulu, seem to remember he got shafted in the end by his own people. You are a **** dinosaur.
I'll go for BA again next year just because it has the best T&Cs in the market and that's my motivation for getting in, nothing else!
You're the spiteful sort of cabbage that has been recently been refusing OS pilots jumpseats.
I'll go for BA again next year just because it has the best T&Cs in the market and that's my motivation for getting in, nothing else!
You're the spiteful sort of cabbage that has been recently been refusing OS pilots jumpseats.