Bmibaby

[Facelookbovvered]

Righthandrule

Might i respectfully suggest you read my post again

The bmi group midst the LH/SMB takeover were sinking fast and would have long gone but for LH support the company was bleeding cash and most suspect the books/costs were so cross polluted that it was difficult to see the woods from the tree's. If LH could have cut and run they would have done so the deal done by SMB 10+ years ago had LH by the short and *****

In this climate there was no way that LH or SMB at the time could have committed to long term lease agreements or much else including fuel hedges the main reason behind such large and sudden loss when fuel hit near $150 a barrel

So left with a shrinking fleet and a need to protect EMA as best as they could MAN & BHX were cut back, which is very different from being wiped out by Jet2 or anyone else for that matter!

The routes left at MAN are a miss mash agreed and the quality of the product was trashed to save cash and yes some customers were mugged, but Jet2 have not exactly come up smelling of roses with their website antics either

If recall it was Jet2 that blinked first at MAN on the PRG route?

If and its a big if LH ever decide to get behind baby, then its worth remembering that the are one of the largest and most profitable airline groups in the world and Jet2 is of no concern to them what so ever.

Lets leave it at that and see what comes to pass

[DomyDom]

MAN-Montpellier

Well done Baby! Great to see some expansion at MAN. Hope the new route sells well.

[mathers_wales_uk]

Which route is getting the chop or reduced frequencies?

[aidoair]

Good news, though, as with any baby route announced lately and untill lufthansa give them a chance to get a couple extra birds, unfortunatley it means we're most likely going to see reduction in frequencys or a full withdrawel of another route. . ?

Does anyone happen to have the current line-up of WW aircraft schedules through the week from MAN for the summer?

[aidoair]

bmibaby Live Q&A session

If anyone is interested, bmibaby are again having a Live Q&A session on their 'Tweeting' feed tommorrow (wednesday 3pm-4pm), this time with their managing director Julian Carr. I think he is definately one of the better MD's out there. He's really committed to the airline and obviously has a passion for the industry.

http://bit.ly/es0Qfu ''Julian will be taking to the @bmibaby_com Twitter feed for an hour to answer questions on bmibaby’s success in 2010, its future plans and budget travel.''

There may be a few Welsh members on here that might want to ask about the Cardiff base and it's future with the recent further reduction and cut backs in services for the summer with the aircraft moving over to BHD to operate Stansted.

[mathers_wales_uk]

He he i'll be around for that one thank you very much. I will let the guys over at Wales Air Network know too as i am sure they will be very interested ;-)

[Random Flyer]

Here are some quotes from Julian Carr, head of bmi baby regarding Cardiff.

We are focused on making sure the routes we fly meet demand, and there is stability in CWL now going forward

CWL works well for us in the summer, and this is our focus. It is a good base with loyal customers

[Random Flyer]

More highlights from today include what is on sale now is the full S11 schedule. The airline is now working on its W11/12 schedule.

Focus is to grow existing bases, no new bases are planned.

bmi baby airline is in talks with the new Castellon Airport while also considering flights to the Canary Island.

Going forward, the 737-800 is favourite to replace the current fleet.

[aidoair]

Going forward, the 737-800 is favourite to replace the current fleet.

Yep and despite obviously having a 737 fleet now, im surprised they wouldnt infact be looking at Airbus seeing as though it's the way it's big sister and big mother airlines have gone. I know in past twitter interviews that this has also been the case to look at newer 737 aircraft so sounds like they are finally on to it!

As for the 738, it will be a great aircraft for bmibaby, however it would be interesting to know if they would also be looking at the 73G aswell for the shorter/higher frequency routes such as UK domestics and AMS etc, where the 738 could be too big for them.

[Skipness One Echo]

Surely given Lufthansa and bmi both operating the A319 / A320 / A321 series, what would be the benefit in going with the B737-800.

[virginblue]

Apparently EMA-CGN chopped in March and EMA-MUC in May.

[CheekyVisual]

The trouble is when you upset your "loyal" customers, as baby have done over the past two years at CWL, they don't stay loyal. A quick example a friend of mine used to use baby twice a month (for the last 5 years !) to get to his place near ALC. Always just stumped up the fare (pretty un-low cost sometimes). Baby dropped the route completely for the winter. Guess what he's found BRS ! Looking forward through the summer he tells me the average baby CWL-ALC fare for his group is more than £100 extra for a return trip (taking all charges and extras into account) than the equivalent days with FR and Easy from BRS. Where in the past he would just have bitten the bullet and paid up the extra his forced winter from BRS has opened his eyes a bit and that extra £100 a time adds up to quite a lot over the year. He's now just going the cheapest way. Loyal customer - lost.

I know and respect JC and he obviously believes that high frequency domestics LON to BHD will make more money for his aircraft than CWL's buckets and spades (didn't for FR but that's another arguement). He may be right but I don't think the baby management have any idea the damage they've done to themselves in the CWL market.

[aidoair]

Apparently EMA-CGN chopped in March and EMA-MUC in May.

Not surprising although I thought MUC was doing well.

What I am surprised about however is no EMA or BHX-PRG route over the summer. With FR no longer operating services and EZY no longer flying from DSA the route looks like it could have been a winner for bmibaby?

I guess this is just down to lack of aircraft? Currently bmibaby operates MAN-PRG only after the winter schedules come to an end.

[OliWW]

So within 2 months, Julian Carr has totally once again changed the aspect of the business model... previously stating that he wanted to focus on Niche Markets... the classics were operating fine, and were most likely going to be replace with aircraft of a similar size (aka A319) and the fact that introducing new routes in Germany was the way forward... hmm... now it seems like they want to operate to the Canairy islands, which he previously stated to me wasn't possible because of the operating weight and thrust of its 733's... and the fact baby will not be even thinking of renewing its fleet until it at least makes a profit in 2012, I cannot see how the airline can possibly reach these destinations without spending more of its dosh on maintenance.

The whole reason baby was introduced was to fend of competition from Go, Easyjet and Ryanair... and the fact is, on many popular destinations it has just given way to Jet2, easyJet, Ryanair and Flybe, and seem more bothered about flying to destinations not served by them... there is a reason why they aren't served... so yes its the whole we could all see this coming once again... they will try and now survive by re-introducing those spanish routes... but the market for them has gone now, and has been taken over by other lcc's.

rant over...

[OltonPete]

Canaries/new aircraft

OliWW

I think the Canaries would be from Cardiff and with the aircraft due to replace
KD if that happens. Well KD has not flown since 1/1/11 so assume there will be a replacement.

I can't imagine they would consider Canaries from BHX or MAN with the amount of competition and East Mids is not much better with FR covering this area.

Although Munich and Cologne are still in the early stages of development they did not start well and it seems a reasonable decision when they have little trouble selling the Med routes in summer.

Anyway there is nothing to say that Munich won't come back next winter but I am in the "no way Cologne" camp from the Midlands. It has just proved totally impossible from BHX and there was little to see much in the early EMA figures to change my mind.

I am still ****** that they withdrew from BHX-FCO, BCN, MAD & LIS with load factors between 65 and 90% year round but if they were making money they wouldn't have been dropped.

Pete

[aidoair]

now it seems like they want to operate to the Canairy islands, which he previously stated to me wasn't possible because of the operating weight and thrust of its 733's... and the fact baby will not be even thinking of renewing its fleet until it at least makes a profit in 2012

From the live session today he only said the routes would be something they would look into in the future, not that they are actually going to start them anytime soon because of its current fleet... He also said these routes could be potential winter routes for aircraft utilisation over the quieter period as someone pointed out less flying in the winter (just like almost all UK based LCCs)

Also as for the fleet, he stated they are about to start looking into it's future fleet renewal program with the 'current' favourite being the 738. That doesn't necessarily mean it will be the chosen aircraft. From other discussions and from the session today, any expansion won't be untill at least summer 2012.

They are taking things slowly which is sensible... the only negative thing with doing it this way is that other airlines around you can grow much quicker and take away any potential first opportunities for routes and services for example.

[Facelookbovvered]

What's the strategy ?

The Meds and the year round domestic + AMS,CDG,JER I can understand,BHD was a good move from BFS but STN? CGN & MUC what's the thought process at work here?

If these routes are being dreamt up by baby staff then I suspect it will only be a matter of time before a more Germanic approach is introduced with Germanic management

What is the point in getting more 737 when every other part of the LH group is running Airbus product I don't think LH have any NG?

Where are they going with this.

[G-VCED]

Yes KD is going, a 300 is coming in to replace this. CGN suffered from low load factors so that isn't surprising.

WW need to find a way to make CWL more profitable in the winter, as it is very lucrative in the summer.

As for fleet renewal I heard its going to be more like 2014 in long term planning, and the size of the a/c will be around the B738 territory but of course no decision on manufacturer.

[SR71]

He's now just going the cheapest way. Loyal customer - lost.

I think there is some confusion here as to what the word loyal means. The above is a definition of the converse isn't it? He wasn't loyal, he was just using what he thought was the only option available. Now that he has found another, if he really was "loyal", he'd stick with the product he'd always used...

There is no loyalty in the LOCO market. That's why its called the LOCO market.

The expansions and contractions of the bmibaby fleet merely reflect the reality of macroeconomic challenges faced by the business and the decisions taken my management to mitigate them.

You're faced with the choice "Fly routes because 31 passengers in South Wales are really loyal customers" or "Go out of business": What would you do?

This isn't personal. Everybody understands you **** people off cancelling flights, changing schedules, flying at weird times etc etc

They (management) also understand other airlines not in the same situation might seek to take advantage of one's misfortunes.

But LH spent £250 million on bmi. The business has lost another £350 million in the last 2 years hasn't it? They have spent £XXX million restructuring. So lets call that £750 million for something that isn't making any money yet.

A sense of perspective is, perhaps, necessary when considering what an average summer might drag in at CWL...

[Mr A Tis]

I'm afraid I'm also not a BMI Baby customer anymore.
Too many chop & changes & a really basic product.
Charged to take bags then charged again to check them in.
The airline does rather need major surgery to bring it up to the standards of Germanwings.
If that is achieved, then maybe some of their previously "loyal" customers may come back, in the meantime, it's a definite no from me no matter where they fly from & to.