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Bmibaby

Old 18th May 2011, 16:47
  #1141 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 83
G-AWZK

When you say the 3rd floor of Donington Hall, are you talking about past or present?

What is your prognosis then for Regional and Mainline? Obviously crystal ball may be getting a little burnt out with all these prediction.
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Old 18th May 2011, 18:57
  #1142 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: gate 67 JFK
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G AWZK

Ah another ex employee!!

Nothing can expand for ever without contracting! even the universe, WW has been starved of investment for years, much of what you say about bish and LH is true, but times have changed, yes new aircraft are needed and coming but not until 2013-14

FR have 7/8 at EMA and 3/4 at BHX in other words around the same as WW so what?

3 rd floor at D Hall was a ( dead ) wood store for years
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Old 18th May 2011, 21:01
  #1143 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bristol, UK
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It is indeed true at LH did not want to buy BD, or certainly not for the price it was forced to pay, and invest since that time. LH was left with a company that was loosing money, required immediate investment, had an aging fleet and still suffering from years of under investment from Bishop.

We all need to bear in mind that LH have a new team in place, and a full recovery plan in all parts of the business. Surely we need to give them time to turn BD around before we start rumours?
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Old 18th May 2011, 21:39
  #1144 (permalink)  
 
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Location: UK FIR
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Inkjet,

you are making a lot of assumptions. Since this is an anonymous forum, it makes little difference what my current employment situation is.

FR have 7/8 at EMA and 3/4 at BHX in other words around the same as WW so what?
So what you ask, well, I think if you have any understanding this demonstrates quite clearly that the concept of Fortress Midlands is ridiculous.

WW has no money to spend, so where the budget will come from to re-fleet is rather a mystery. DLH have been pouring money into a black hole for the past couple of years, on top of having to pay way way over what the group value actually was. At some point the shareholder will say enough is enough. Purely from a business perspective, baby is not generating profit and will need multi-million pound investment just to make it comply with legal requirements, never mind a new fleet.

So let us quickly summarise what we know:
  • DLH did not want WW to be created
  • DLH own a loss making entity they are hostile to
  • WW needs vast amounts of money spent on it just to maintain parity
  • The fleet is decrepit and needs replaced
  • The passenger offering is not wowing the public
  • Load Factors and yields are not wowing the money men

Does the move from Tiny Town to Hastings House tell us anything? I will leave that up to you to interpret, but I do not see it as a positive.
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Old 18th May 2011, 21:40
  #1145 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Lots of expansion at EMA inc NQY, GIB & CFU.
have i missed something ?

NQY ? it was announced ages ago and only a few times a week during peek summer ?

cs
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Old 18th May 2011, 22:11
  #1146 (permalink)  
 
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AWZK - I think you are being a little over dramatic - calm down dear!

Granted, LH did not want BD, however the idea of Fortress Midlands is PPRuNe terminology, not BD terminology. It's been generated by those experienced PPRuNe strategy analysts amongst you. BD created WW in the same way BA did with Go, it was all about protecting volume and getting in on the regional game before it was too late. LH also did the same with Germanwings that has also NEVER made a profit - and doesn't even come close!

The publically available annual report of LHG shows bmi group that isn't forecast to make a profit or break even until 2013 so why is everyone getting their knickers in a twist about a move to Hastings House, it was just clearly a move from an expensive office to floor space that is half empty. It makes commercial sense to me.... not the "beginning of the end" like some of you take pleasure in thinking.
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Old 18th May 2011, 23:00
  #1147 (permalink)  
 
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Fortress Midlands is PPRuNe terminology, not BD terminology
I heard it spoken about more than once in Tiny Town.

BD created WW in the same way BA did with Go, it was all about protecting volume and getting in on the regional game before it was too late.
I beg to differ. It was a vanity project from Bishop, supposed to show EZY and FR that EMA was BD home turf. GO had a clear strategy, excellent management and the unequivocal support of the BA board. WW has none of that.

The nice video WPS showed everyone had a significant omission, any guesses what it was?
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Old 19th May 2011, 05:59
  #1148 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Denmark
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Bmi have always had a fortress approach to EMA, and it is not just PPRuNe terminology. Some things I remember:
  • When WX launched DUB EMA, BD switched from S340s to Fokker 70s
  • When Go announced their base in EMA, BD launched baby days later.

There a no mistake omissions from anything that LH does - remember what bases were mentioned at the last annual report?

Our german friends are very logical. In my humble opinion - the days of two bmi retail brands is nearing an end - the sevice levels are virtually the same, so why two marketing budgets - especially since they are often flying from the same airports.
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Old 19th May 2011, 07:16
  #1149 (permalink)  
 
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The issue of AD's is a re herring, WW fleet is leased and most are due to expire in the next 24 months, WW is only responsible for AD that fall within the lease period, unlike LH or Jet2 who own their classic fleet for there is no value with out the AD's having been completed, LH are already carrying out this work including replacing crown skins

No major investment is required to lease newer 737 or A319's LH are very logical and understand the strategy game well bmi have a major problem with it's focus on Arab and North Africa for sure but that applies to Austrian as well mean while WW have the lowest seat cost per mile in the LH group

Time will tell
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Old 19th May 2011, 10:37
  #1150 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
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I think G-AWZK is getting a little over excited predicting the demise of WW. The moves that WW has made in the past few months suggests an airline that is trying to define itself in the marketplace. They have refreshed their brand, renewed their livery and website, launched a new 'base' at BHD, expanded where they are recognised - in the midlands. Just like Jet2 can be the LCC for the North, baby can be the LCC of choice in the midlands.

There are issues at Baby but bringing back BD mainline, or some sort of BD lite/BD UK regions,etc would probably add cost. Mainline offer *A benefits, free baggage, a two class product, etc. The WW marketing budget is probably less than the cost of this would be across the network, *A membership and a handful of status miles is not really going to draw too much custom to the Balearics.

There is nothing 'wrong' with the classics. Look at the job Norwegian have done with theirs. Overhead bin extensions, new ceiling panels, lighting, a deep clean and slimline Recaro's would transform the fleet from a customer point of view.
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Old 19th May 2011, 10:49
  #1151 (permalink)  
 
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G-AWZK
3rd floor at DH? Really....looks like you were in the clouds, given the offices ended on the 1st and the building ended on the 2nd! And there's one "n" in Donington.

As for the history lesson, it lacks some factual accuracy. I think you will find that some of the shareholders and Board were very keen to expand WW into a significant player but certain others were able to prevent it through the provisions in the shareholders agreement that allowed veto rights or required supermajority votes over significant expenditure or commitments. The critics of the lack of investment in BD and WW over the years have zero knowledge of the constraints which are imposed on both capital expenditure and long term commitments by a shareholders agreement which typically gives the minority shareholder (who might end up as the 100% owner) with lots of protection against big spending ideas of management and majority shareholders.

The set up of WW was of course done with existing BD aircraft and the consequences of not responding to the arrival of Go at EMA would almost certainly have meant the disposal of a large number of aircraft and the redundancy of large numbers of crew, another thing the critics seem to conveniently forget. A vanity project it certainly wasn't.

As for current strategy, I have no insider knowledge, but it is certainly a difficult position to be a small player in what is a scale game. Nevertheless the current team seem to be doing everything they can to keep things going and I wouldn't write them off just yet. As long as they don't cost LH any serious cash, they are unlikely to be closed down ( closure itself would be v expensive), sale to anyone is unlikely and for LH I imagine BD mainline is currently a much bigger problem to focus on.
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Old 19th May 2011, 12:16
  #1152 (permalink)  
 
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The moves that WW has made in the past few months suggests an airline that is trying to define itself in the marketplace
It has had 9 years to define its position and is still trying to do so. If a company still has not managed to define itself after that length of time...

In general EZY and FR do the whole Low-Cost thing so much better. They have brand new equipment and are dedicated to doing what they do, whereas WW are using clapped out old aircraft with interiors that desperately need a large investment, just to bring them into the same rough ballpark as the other players. The fares structure is not particularly attractive either. Baby was set up in a hurry (it took only 4 months) and has never really found it's feet or a specific niche in which to flourish.

I take no satisfaction whatsoever in writing any of this. The bmi group has a long and proud history but the years of investment starvation and anachronistic management styles are not helping in anyway towards a rosy future.
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Old 19th May 2011, 12:24
  #1153 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
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All very interesting but, buried in DLH's Q1 update, were losses of 63m for BMI in Q1 2011 alone.

Enough said.
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Old 19th May 2011, 12:28
  #1154 (permalink)  
 
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There is nothing 'wrong' with the classics. Look at the job Norwegian have done with theirs.
In the business, momentum is often a key driver. One starts with "classics" and moves up and expands with new aircraft. Ryanair began with One Elevens, moving to B737-200s then lots of B737-800s. Even Jet2 have moved onto the B737NG. Contrast with post LH owned Baby who continue to retract into core markets, in their own comfort zone. They are too fond of the Patented Airliners.net Magic Dartboard of Route Planning. Sporadic and random incursions into both business and leisure markets on random days with schedules that are often unreliable mean to many, they are a bit of a joke.

Even in their key markets, they are walking away from Manchester of all places, mainly because it's "not in the Midlands". To reiterate, they can't make money on leisure out of MAN, the #2 leisure market in the whole UK. That's not a strategy, that's a reaction. LH have been focusssing on tweaking all that's good about BMI mainline in order to put the LHR operation back into sustainable profitability. They have not put a lot of attention onto Baby while they look after the parent. My concern is that when they finally do focus like a German [email protected] beam on Baby, the answer to the question "Why bother?" isn't a good one.
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Old 19th May 2011, 14:30
  #1155 (permalink)  
 
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It's silly season again!!

WW it's not with out it's faults but customer service is in a different league to Easy & FR to be clear a higher one.

LH know the cost of everything under their control
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Old 19th May 2011, 15:41
  #1156 (permalink)  
 
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'G-AWZK
3rd floor at DH? Really....looks like you were in the clouds, given the offices ended on the 1st and the building ended on the 2nd! And there's one "n" in Donington.'


Hate to be pedantic..............but.....there is a third floor of the Hall, Bishops old boardroom? Plus, there is the mezzanine floor as well.

I was there at the beginning of baby, and only left two years ago and am alarmed at how far my how old 'airline' has dropped. If there is going to be any expansion, then sooner rather than later has to be the order of the day.

Otherwise the move into Hastings House may be a very short one. The next step may very well be the final one. Back to the Hall. I sincerely hope not.
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Old 19th May 2011, 18:08
  #1157 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: whereverilaymyhat
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Little Blue I also hate to be pedantic, but I'm going to be. stand outside and count the windows/floors...there is no 3rd floor...the first housed the Directors and the Belvedere (board room) is on the second.
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Old 20th May 2011, 07:36
  #1158 (permalink)  
 
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Are you standing at the front or the back of the building when you do your floor count?

I do work for bmi and whilst I obviously won't go into any real detail of what I know on here, there's a lot of truth on this thread unfortunately.
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Old 20th May 2011, 08:09
  #1159 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newcastle NI
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Q1 losses

I think the biggest threat to baby is bmi, Q1 losses are normal for most European airlines however these are big numbers and worse than the previous year, Easter being the second quarter does not help and the problems Egypt and other M/E countries continue to this day,only bmi could have the luck to launch Tripoli on a Monday and bin it on a Tuesday

I think the share holders will asking when will it be profitable? the irony is that bmibaby is probably in it best shape ever going forward having gone from a wart on the face of bmi to cute pimple
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Old 25th May 2011, 11:56
  #1160 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
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Sam 1664 wrote a few days ago...

There is a big annoucment planned for the 25th May at 11am, management have told staff to set the date in their diary for exciting news regarding the future of the company, the annoucment will be broadcast live from the engineering hangar in Luton to all bases and key office locations!! Exciting stuff!!
Well Sam, any news?
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