Chaos at Terminal 5
aka Capt PPRuNe
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oh mods at PPRUNE why did you move this thread? Have BA been onto you again
This thread has been moved here because it is like a Hamsters Wheel. The content goes around and around with the opinions of self aggrandising "experts" who in reality, have only experienced "aviation" either as a passenger or with some lowly role within the business.
The few decent posts about their experiences from the front end, ie. pilots (for whom this website is primarily intended), are immediately bounced upon by more pompous "experts" whose only real reason for showing up on here is their insatiable desire to "hang on" to the coattails of those who are fortunate enough to work at the front end of the business in some perverted excuse for their own failed ambitions. As pilots, we are not primarily concerned with how airports are run. We are not "airport experts" even though we do use a bit more of them than most people.
Rumours & News section is not intended for every spotter, private pilot or aviation enthusiast to post about the latest Cessna 150 having a misfiring engine or about some newspaper report about some bimbo throwing a fit and getting chucked off a flight. R & N is not for the enthusiasts who "think" they are pseudo experts on the running of airports just because they read Flight or Aircraft Spotters Monthly magazine. It is for issues that affect OUR lives and jobs as professional pilots.
So, Willie Wash (aka BAEngineering and various others), if you're not happy that this thread has finally made it to the forum where you can debate how YOU would run things if you were ever allowed to get to the position where your decisions were likely to have an influence, then feel free to find a website where your happiness is of concern to anyone other than yourself.
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Mmm.. Danny is right but the state of the operating airfield's terminal and its effects on traffic, company operations, passenger satisfaction are important to flight crew, both at the front and the rear as well. But some of the "deeper name calling" and stuff certainly needed to be weeded out. Pity the moderators.
Has there been any reported cases of crew being out of duty hours due to these problems of getting equipment to/from the aircraft? I dare say it has not been sweetness and light for cabin crew with (justifiably) annoyed pax grumbling at cc (understandable but not justified, particularly when it is accompanied by four letter words and worse).
I dare say AtC and ground control have not been sitting with their feet up either.
Certainly over here in the land (sometimes) snow the trials and tribulations of LHR have caused some concern. Seems a sparrow needs to pass wind and LHR closes nowdays (i.e. not just T5), creating problems with AY's flights to HEL and the connection traffic into OneWorld. So far AY hasn't tried to push its "asia gateway" as hard as it could though.
I guess BA's performance also has a bottom line impact on all operating crew (not just that if htere's no BA there's no job) as pension funds and the like have investments in BA.
Has there been any reported cases of crew being out of duty hours due to these problems of getting equipment to/from the aircraft? I dare say it has not been sweetness and light for cabin crew with (justifiably) annoyed pax grumbling at cc (understandable but not justified, particularly when it is accompanied by four letter words and worse).
I dare say AtC and ground control have not been sitting with their feet up either.
Certainly over here in the land (sometimes) snow the trials and tribulations of LHR have caused some concern. Seems a sparrow needs to pass wind and LHR closes nowdays (i.e. not just T5), creating problems with AY's flights to HEL and the connection traffic into OneWorld. So far AY hasn't tried to push its "asia gateway" as hard as it could though.
I guess BA's performance also has a bottom line impact on all operating crew (not just that if htere's no BA there's no job) as pension funds and the like have investments in BA.
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This thread has been moved here because it is like a Hamsters Wheel. The content goes around and around with the opinions of self aggrandising "experts" who in reality, have only experienced "aviation" either as a passenger or with some lowly role within the business.
The few decent posts about their experiences from the front end, ie. pilots (for whom this website is primarily intended), are immediately bounced upon by more pompous "experts" whose only real reason for showing up on here is their insatiable desire to "hang on" to the coattails of those who are fortunate enough to work at the front end of the business in some perverted excuse for their own failed ambitions. As pilots, we are not primarily concerned with how airports are run. We are not "airport experts" even though we do use a bit more of them than most people.
The few decent posts about their experiences from the front end, ie. pilots (for whom this website is primarily intended), are immediately bounced upon by more pompous "experts" whose only real reason for showing up on here is their insatiable desire to "hang on" to the coattails of those who are fortunate enough to work at the front end of the business in some perverted excuse for their own failed ambitions. As pilots, we are not primarily concerned with how airports are run. We are not "airport experts" even though we do use a bit more of them than most people.
Do forgive us, Mr "Moderator" for daring to intrude upon the crewroom.
It is, of course, the Professional Pilots' Network. I am delighted that you have been able to enjoy your flying career, earning a substantial salary whilst flying aircraft paid for by the proletariat that inconvenience your lives so much.
The MASSIVE arrogance of that submission says so much for the airline industry today ... "Sod the Proles, I'm an airline Captain".
I spent 30 years working with your arrogant self-opinionated community: it's interesting to see that nothing has changed since I retired.
Good God, man ... you are part of aviation and airports, whether you like it or not.
And we Proles pay your salary, you rude arrogant
[edited to add ... should subscription to this site be restricted to those who hold a PPL/CPL? Mine's dated 1964, BTW]
Last edited by Two-Tone-Blue; 8th Apr 2008 at 17:05. Reason: added text
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Paying Passengers ... Latest Experiences?
Hello, the Lower Orders of Society.
Has anyone been through T5 in the last few days?
Would you care to share your experience with us?
TWOTBAGS gave us one Paying Prole's view.
Anyone else?
Has anyone been through T5 in the last few days?
Would you care to share your experience with us?
TWOTBAGS gave us one Paying Prole's view.
Anyone else?
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But only if you are an ATPL and not if you are a common passenger or c150 weekend pilot!
Civil pilot, military pilot, other things .... no, let's not go into details.
I am not a Jumbo-driving God-figure.
These days I'm just a guy who pays a lot of money to keep the Gods flying.
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Dear Danny
Although I understand your frustration, the T5 thread brought together pilots of BA, engineers, baggage handlers and pax alike. The thread is in my view the pinacle of what a forum should be.
I am a private MEP, i run an "airline" (Seneca, private), used to be a BA gold card holder and now i dont even have a BA card anymore.
1. Yes you are right about this principally being a forum for professional pilots, but there are many threads and forums where the pilots have the upper hand within PPRuNe.
2. Yes you are right about the single sided multiple posting by individuals (or groups such as BAEngineering?) which were annoying, but still i think the thread conveyed the extreme nature of the T5 debacle.
This conveyance through this forum may well help the cause of the BA pilots who are asking in vain till now for their company to finding a new way which will secure their future in some way. Not least because during this debacle again the press has found this forum and will no doubt have been surprised by the extreme disappointment at the opening of this building and the pit it opened.
We all loose our cool from time to time. I hope you regain yours, because you run a great ship!
I am a private MEP, i run an "airline" (Seneca, private), used to be a BA gold card holder and now i dont even have a BA card anymore.
1. Yes you are right about this principally being a forum for professional pilots, but there are many threads and forums where the pilots have the upper hand within PPRuNe.
2. Yes you are right about the single sided multiple posting by individuals (or groups such as BAEngineering?) which were annoying, but still i think the thread conveyed the extreme nature of the T5 debacle.
This conveyance through this forum may well help the cause of the BA pilots who are asking in vain till now for their company to finding a new way which will secure their future in some way. Not least because during this debacle again the press has found this forum and will no doubt have been surprised by the extreme disappointment at the opening of this building and the pit it opened.
We all loose our cool from time to time. I hope you regain yours, because you run a great ship!
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I will pick up on vanHorck's comments to say simply that PPRuNe in the round [and that includes the paying punters, spotters, controllers, military unwashed and many others] provides great potential for "instant information" and "informed debate".
The presence of those who are not "professionally" close to the topic in discussion may be as frustrating to you as it is to those who are trying to glean information. Especially when they wander off into the long grass ...
But please don't ever throw a wendy like that at the rest of the public. You may be The God of PPRuNe, but that was one bad-taste post. As my wife commented, after reading your post, "I hope he isn't flying us to IAD".
Moving on, I hope ...
The presence of those who are not "professionally" close to the topic in discussion may be as frustrating to you as it is to those who are trying to glean information. Especially when they wander off into the long grass ...
But please don't ever throw a wendy like that at the rest of the public. You may be The God of PPRuNe, but that was one bad-taste post. As my wife commented, after reading your post, "I hope he isn't flying us to IAD".
Moving on, I hope ...
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http://demorgen.be/dm/nl/996/Economi...Heathrow.dhtml
Belgian newspaper reports 138 flights cancelled by BA yesterday and 42 today
Does anyone want to convey recent T5 experience?
Belgian newspaper reports 138 flights cancelled by BA yesterday and 42 today
Does anyone want to convey recent T5 experience?
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Went through last Friday. All ok until we got to security, the north side lanes were chokker so was directed to the south but just the same here, it took 40 mins to clear as they were only operating two scanners plus one more for club and first. There were another four scanners lying idle. (pity they dont copy Tesco and keep opening lanes until either the crowds diminish or they are all open.) Once I got through I had no time to admire the shops etc as the flight had just been called so galloped back to the north side of the terminal to be bussed out to the flight. Everything seemed to be ok, we boarded on time but the baggage trolly made frequent encoures as they must have found more luggage.
Finally ready to go approx 15 mins late only to find the ramp crew had gone AWOL, we were treated to views of the dispatcher wandering around the outside of the aircraft, radio in hand, gesticulating wildly with his hands, I can do a bit of lip reading and Im sure some of the words were French
The ramp crew were finally rounded up and we departed one hour late.
I think I will go back to using LGW until its all sorted
Finally ready to go approx 15 mins late only to find the ramp crew had gone AWOL, we were treated to views of the dispatcher wandering around the outside of the aircraft, radio in hand, gesticulating wildly with his hands, I can do a bit of lip reading and Im sure some of the words were French
The ramp crew were finally rounded up and we departed one hour late.
I think I will go back to using LGW until its all sorted
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their insatiable desire to "hang on" to the coattails of those who are fortunate enough to work at the front end of the business in some
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And both cancellations (to EWR and IAD) were from T4. Typical delays from T5 semed to be around ten to fifteen minutes, but some flights appear to have left up to five minutes early!
Perhaps Willie has found some of those 5000 thoroughly trained staff who were mentioned by the Directors in the 2007 Annual Report. (See page 9 at http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_...d_Accounts.pdf).
Perhaps Willie has found some of those 5000 thoroughly trained staff who were mentioned by the Directors in the 2007 Annual Report. (See page 9 at http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_...d_Accounts.pdf).
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One thing I keep reading (to my amazement) is comments about "being bussed" to the aircraft. Is it so (remember I am a long way from T5) that this "p.i.t.a" practice is happening as there are no airbridges or not enough airbridges for gates (i.e. remote stand) at T5 or a shortage.
Nothing can pi// a passenger off more than finally rushing to the gate to wait for a bus where everyone is cramped on board whilst there is a tour of the airfield.
Or have I misunderstood something?
Nothing can pi// a passenger off more than finally rushing to the gate to wait for a bus where everyone is cramped on board whilst there is a tour of the airfield.
Or have I misunderstood something?
aka Capt PPRuNe
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Just for the benefit of any two toned proles out there, the point of my missive was that there are proles who have the audacity to have a go at me and my mods for moving a thread to what is considered a more appropriate forum. This thread was allowed to stay on the R & N forum for a long time as the tipic DID affect our lives and jobs as airline pilots. However, as is usually the case, it doesn't take long for the so called "experts" to take over the thread with their interminable arguments about how they would have run things and trying to get opposing points of view reversed.
However, if you missed that point then I suppose it is down to my lack of proper education and subsequent inability to express myself properly. If, however, you thought I was calling you a "prole" then I suppose that is your problem and may be down to personal insecurities.
Now that this thread has beeen moved to the AIRLINES, AIRPORTS & Routes forum, the "proles" and all the other people who have an opinion or experience they want to relate about T5, they can do so without clogging up OUR forums elsewhere. Gosh! Even I can come down from my lofty perch and have go on here too.
I am due to position back into LHR later this week and I have decided to make my own travel arrangements and claim back expenses rather than have to put up with T5. Train or driving back from oop north, is bound to be quicker, less frustrating (yes, even the M6) and more straightforward with the guarantee that my bags arrive with and at the same time as me!
However, if you missed that point then I suppose it is down to my lack of proper education and subsequent inability to express myself properly. If, however, you thought I was calling you a "prole" then I suppose that is your problem and may be down to personal insecurities.
Now that this thread has beeen moved to the AIRLINES, AIRPORTS & Routes forum, the "proles" and all the other people who have an opinion or experience they want to relate about T5, they can do so without clogging up OUR forums elsewhere. Gosh! Even I can come down from my lofty perch and have go on here too.
I am due to position back into LHR later this week and I have decided to make my own travel arrangements and claim back expenses rather than have to put up with T5. Train or driving back from oop north, is bound to be quicker, less frustrating (yes, even the M6) and more straightforward with the guarantee that my bags arrive with and at the same time as me!
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T5 running very well over the last two days
Looking at the take off times compared to schedule it looks like there has been a near 80% departure within 20 minutes reflected in the arrival times on page 445 on ceefax. Believe there are still problems with baggage but BAA and IBM are sorting them out. BA has absolutely nothing to do with the hardware or software that runs the baggage system.
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Have just had my first T5 experience flying to ABZ. Have to say that I am very impressed with the new place. Had no wait to check my case in, no delay and very efficient through security. Lots of room in the departures area and great views! Once any remaining glitches are sorted I really think it will make travelling through Heathrow a much more pleasant experience. 
(and didn't see 1 cancelled flight on the boards!!!)
(and didn't see 1 cancelled flight on the boards!!!)