Chaos at Terminal 5
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Chris Scott - the A319s have the containerised cargo systems embodied but they have not been utilised to date. The system is to be utilised in T5 where all baggage is containerised. It is for that reason the 757s will operate from T1/T3, as they are unable to accept the baggage containers. I believe the delay issue is in the making up of the containers at the baggage belt.
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It was notable that on the trial I attended on 31 January, there was hardly any baggage involvement. You could, I suppose, say it was authentic: I checked in a bag and never saw it again!
The tags put on the bags at check-in looked like the usual barcode tags, rather than the RFID-chip tags that I've read about. There was no trialling of obtaining baggage on arrival, so the impression given was that the baggage system wasn't yet ready. Perhaps it was "completed" too late for full trialling and testing.
Having said that, I was impressed by T5 as a building, and was looking forward to a real flight from there. But after today ....
The tags put on the bags at check-in looked like the usual barcode tags, rather than the RFID-chip tags that I've read about. There was no trialling of obtaining baggage on arrival, so the impression given was that the baggage system wasn't yet ready. Perhaps it was "completed" too late for full trialling and testing.
Having said that, I was impressed by T5 as a building, and was looking forward to a real flight from there. But after today ....
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Oh dear what a shambles!!!
It sounds as if PIDGE is a typical senior member of Ferrovial enjoying the humiliation of a British major project. I do hope he is is not aircrew. I wouldn't wish to be on any flight deck with him.To be serious though the BBC news tonight suggested that the real cause of the problem was the absence of BA airside staff to unload aircraft and get the luggage into the halls. This does not explain the breakdown of the fast baggage drop system unless that was "locked out" by the unloading fiasco.Sounds like an Irish pub party - well lead by an Irish "wally"
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No, they are taking the $$$.
I suspect that the fact that the flight departed means they get out of all compensation obligations - because it wasn't cancelled, and you weren't denied boarding (since you could have boarded without baggage they'll probably claim you chose not to board).
If anyone can correct me and confirm that you can successfully claim denied boarding compensation if you are denied-boarding-with-baggage, then I'm happy to be proved wrong.
Reports are that BA are offering nothing (no hotels or assistance) other than refund or rebook on another date.
I suspect that the fact that the flight departed means they get out of all compensation obligations - because it wasn't cancelled, and you weren't denied boarding (since you could have boarded without baggage they'll probably claim you chose not to board).
If anyone can correct me and confirm that you can successfully claim denied boarding compensation if you are denied-boarding-with-baggage, then I'm happy to be proved wrong.
Reports are that BA are offering nothing (no hotels or assistance) other than refund or rebook on another date.
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To me the omens were there many months ago.
Repeated reports back from non airline SLFs that the signage was bad.
Hardly difficult to fix so that raised concerns about the "clever bits".
I volunteered for several of the trials a long time ago. I did not get selected for any. I called them saying that I could car share ( supporting their save the planet stance) with friends that had already been selected.
They told me the computer system used for the recruits was really a personel type system and not really very good its new task etc.
In the end I gave up on it. Cutting corners like that is not clever.
I did get an independant tour and just visiting the SLF areas left me with the impression they were believing their own PR speak and not listening to SLFs.
It is pretty basic to throw lots of bodies at a task like this and be happy to feed and water them even if they sit on their bums all day.
It is now 23:35. BBC is still repeating " We are expecting a statement from BA". The PR / press team must be out dining on the success or are they writing resignations speeches?
On silly me one does not fall on one's sword. One stays to ensure that all is sorted out cos one is the best man for the job.
I am so sadded to see a prawn like Kirkwood allowed near the press.
The press will not forget his double snub.
Repeated reports back from non airline SLFs that the signage was bad.
Hardly difficult to fix so that raised concerns about the "clever bits".
I volunteered for several of the trials a long time ago. I did not get selected for any. I called them saying that I could car share ( supporting their save the planet stance) with friends that had already been selected.
They told me the computer system used for the recruits was really a personel type system and not really very good its new task etc.
In the end I gave up on it. Cutting corners like that is not clever.
I did get an independant tour and just visiting the SLF areas left me with the impression they were believing their own PR speak and not listening to SLFs.
It is pretty basic to throw lots of bodies at a task like this and be happy to feed and water them even if they sit on their bums all day.
It is now 23:35. BBC is still repeating " We are expecting a statement from BA". The PR / press team must be out dining on the success or are they writing resignations speeches?
On silly me one does not fall on one's sword. One stays to ensure that all is sorted out cos one is the best man for the job.
I am so sadded to see a prawn like Kirkwood allowed near the press.
The press will not forget his double snub.
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ex-BA
When I first joined BA, there were stickers on doors in Speedbird House
"Heathrow must thrive, build Terminal 5"
That was - honestly - 21 years ago.
Oh dear.
But IMO the real test comes now. After a day of chaos, let's hope the problems have been analysed, baggage systems rebooted, contingency plans up and running so everything reaches normality before end of play Friday.
"Heathrow must thrive, build Terminal 5"
That was - honestly - 21 years ago.
Oh dear.
But IMO the real test comes now. After a day of chaos, let's hope the problems have been analysed, baggage systems rebooted, contingency plans up and running so everything reaches normality before end of play Friday.
A319 Baggage-Containerisation
Quote from Hand Solo:
...the A319s have the containerised cargo systems embodied but they have not been utilised to date.
[Unquote]
Thanks for that, but am surprised. Have they been retrofitted? They didn't have it when they arrived from Hamburg, starting in the late 1990s. But what you say certainly makes sense in the context of T5.
If they are only starting to use it now, in the pressured environment of a new terminal, I confidently predict a rash of tech delays caused by damage to A319 wing-flap boat-fairings...
...the A319s have the containerised cargo systems embodied but they have not been utilised to date.
[Unquote]
Thanks for that, but am surprised. Have they been retrofitted? They didn't have it when they arrived from Hamburg, starting in the late 1990s. But what you say certainly makes sense in the context of T5.
If they are only starting to use it now, in the pressured environment of a new terminal, I confidently predict a rash of tech delays caused by damage to A319 wing-flap boat-fairings...
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Yep they've always had the bits fitted Chris but the working parts were under a false floor. We had the first 319s at BHX and they all had the false floor fitted according to the people who knew these things.
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Wacky Willie quotes
Found the following quotes from BA chief muppet whilst perusing the news on the chaos:
I should 
hope so.
-speechless-
I'm absolutely delighted. I think it's great and it's going to get better.
hope so.
The opening has gone well and to have this working like this is by any standards an achievement. This is a hundred times better than anything else at Heathrow
-speechless-
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And this is just the flights from T1. Wait til they add the T4 flights.
This shows the media and the public the true colours of BA management - incompetent, arrogant idiots who genuinely don't give a sh*t about their frontline employees or their customers.
It's time for Willie to f*ck up some other company. And he can take Kirkwood with him.
This shows the media and the public the true colours of BA management - incompetent, arrogant idiots who genuinely don't give a sh*t about their frontline employees or their customers.
It's time for Willie to f*ck up some other company. And he can take Kirkwood with him.
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british airways' management over the years has always been disastrous,but this current shambles beggars belief.to move into a terminal which is operationally unprepared in inexcuisable and the disgraceful performance of the operations director,kirkwood,who ran away from the press is unprecedented in any commercial presentation i have ever witnessed.once again the passengers and frontline staff have been let down by our national carrier,the pr disaster is on a monumental scale.i just hope those responsible for this fiasco are given the boot without any further delay.how much more can this company take.it really is about time that a chief executive with charisma and a real flair for our business takes the helm and leads this airline from the front with vision,reality and a degree of humility.all attributes missing from the current leadership team.
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As a BA employee at the "back end",this whole episode sucks,but it just doesn't surprise either me or my colleages as this has been a disaster waiting to happen! The baggage handlers identified a few system glitches during the trials but as usual with BA management thier concerns were ignored,(we get paid to manage...you get paid to do as we say!!!), also it appears that only a week or so ago,a software upgrade was made to the baggage system,but no further trial deemed necessary to see if it worked ok.
From what we have heard today, the majority of the problems have arisen from something called "stack and shelve".....basically the system identifies transfer baggage and if the onward flight is over a certain time period away from the arrival one,then the baggage is sent to a "holding" area where it is stored until the computer says it is required for the onward flight!!
The trouble with this today has apparently centered around the computer totally forgetting everything it put into the holding area,so if anything moved from here,it was done manually.
God only knows what it's going to be like when longhaul start to move in en- masse over the coming days.....perhaps WW will have to get his own slot on news 24.........Maybe his "roumoured" move to become the CEO of one of the USAs big 3 will happen sooner than later!!
From what we have heard today, the majority of the problems have arisen from something called "stack and shelve".....basically the system identifies transfer baggage and if the onward flight is over a certain time period away from the arrival one,then the baggage is sent to a "holding" area where it is stored until the computer says it is required for the onward flight!!
The trouble with this today has apparently centered around the computer totally forgetting everything it put into the holding area,so if anything moved from here,it was done manually.
God only knows what it's going to be like when longhaul start to move in en- masse over the coming days.....perhaps WW will have to get his own slot on news 24.........Maybe his "roumoured" move to become the CEO of one of the USAs big 3 will happen sooner than later!!
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".........Maybe his "roumoured" move to become the CEO of one of the USAs big 3 will happen sooner than later!!"
Oh dear Lord...
We're perfectly awful on our own, thank you very much...and we see your 2-hour delays and raise you 2 (or more)
Oh dear Lord...
We're perfectly awful on our own, thank you very much...and we see your 2-hour delays and raise you 2 (or more)
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Just had a text message from BA at 1.15am european time telling me my return flight from BSL to LHR tomorrow is dead - find another option!!! Wonderful for an Exec club member who has paid fully flex biz class fare at UK£710.00
Wonderful ...................
Wonderful ...................
Just posted to note that some of the usual BA knockers have desisted from comment.
Not much point in adding to the ongoing adverse comment I suppose.
No group adversely criticises BA more than those of us who care about 'our' company. (Just as you care about 'your' company) We are jubilant when it succeeds and embarrassed when it fails. Management are very good at engendering company loyalty - when it suits (been through a couple of mergers where it didn't suit
)
I worked for Cathay when the move to CLK took place. It was a MUCH bigger deal than the T5 move and initially did NOT go well and was castigated by the HK media.
I have not the faintest idea what went wrong at T5 but:
a) I hope 'lessons will be learnt' (as HMG say
).
b) The great British public learn to differentiate between BA and BAA.
Bas - just in from pub so pls be gentle
Not much point in adding to the ongoing adverse comment I suppose.
No group adversely criticises BA more than those of us who care about 'our' company. (Just as you care about 'your' company) We are jubilant when it succeeds and embarrassed when it fails. Management are very good at engendering company loyalty - when it suits (been through a couple of mergers where it didn't suit
)I worked for Cathay when the move to CLK took place. It was a MUCH bigger deal than the T5 move and initially did NOT go well and was castigated by the HK media.
I have not the faintest idea what went wrong at T5 but:
a) I hope 'lessons will be learnt' (as HMG say
).b) The great British public learn to differentiate between BA and BAA.
Bas - just in from pub so pls be gentle