Chaos at Terminal 5
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Skipness One Echo
there are one or several rather good British firms doing quite well.
there are one or several rather good British firms doing quite well.
This is an island nation that cannot even any longer build the cruise ships for its premier shipping companies. Well ... admittedly P&O and Cunard are technically no longer British (owned by the US operator Carnival) but you get the drift.
MV Oriana - built by Meyer Werft shipyard, Papenburg, Germany
"Ideally Oriana would have been built in the United Kingdom, but unfortunately there were no British shipyards left capable of completing such an order"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Oriana_(1995)
QM2 - built in France
"The RMS Queen Mary 2 (QM2) is a Cunard Line ocean liner named after the earlier Cunard liner Queen Mary, which was in turn named after Mary of Teck, the Queen Consort of George V. At the time of her construction in 2003 by the Chantiers de l'Atlantique... "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QM2
Queen Victoria - built in Italy by Ficantieri
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Queen_Victoria
So, I'd just LOVE to hear where Britain is doing WELL if we can't even build a decent SHIP these days.
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The knives are out at last !
Julia Gillam, passenger communications manager for BAA Heathrow, said: "I would absolutely dispute that we have had problems this week.
"Let's be clear, in Terminal 5 the baggage system is working 100 per cent.
"BA do their own baggage handling. If you want to talk about the problems at Terminal 5, you need to talk to British Airways."
"Let's be clear, in Terminal 5 the baggage system is working 100 per cent.
"BA do their own baggage handling. If you want to talk about the problems at Terminal 5, you need to talk to British Airways."
Ok, so who's responsible for the broken lifts and escalators ?
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Vino Collapso
"MBA !!
Ha Ha Ha ha ha ha.
A joke qualification of the 1990's and 2000's.
If you want to manage something you absolutely have to know how it works and have 'coalface' experience of the job.
Too many paperwork qualified in-experienced prats in too many key roles in this country. BA is just todays high profile MBA driven c**k up. Another will be long to claim the accolade tomorrow."
Don't blame the MBA itself. There are many instances, particularly in 60's, 70's & 80's Britain where companies have been run into the ground - out whole manufacturing base as a start. Most of these were run by people who DIDN'T have an MBA.
The T5 fiasco has nothing to do with MBA. It was caused by the total lack of leadership from the top. If he had been a good leader Wee Willie would have been in there right away helping his staff by taking some of the flack himself. There is such a thing as a Company culture which again, comes from the top. If the culture is bad then communications between levels of management suffer and that is what seems to have happened here. There is only one explanation as to why so many things went wrong at the same time - the project was not ready to be run. The problem was that the message never got passed up the chain OR it was ignored by the top management who were to scared for their jobs/bonuses to say "STOP".
Despite all the wisecracks about MBA's and management, every company needs GOOD management. What seems to be lacking in BA is leadership and an open door culture that encourages the two way flow of information - good and bad.
By the way, you don't have to have been at that particular coalface to well manage a company. I am retired and I have an MBA and I have successfully run companies in areas as diverse as filtration - including aviation fuel, truck manufacturing, TV, power generation and household appliances in both the US and in Europe. If I have been successful, it was because I lead from the front and encouraged the right culture within the company - teamwork.
"MBA !!
Ha Ha Ha ha ha ha.
A joke qualification of the 1990's and 2000's.
If you want to manage something you absolutely have to know how it works and have 'coalface' experience of the job.
Too many paperwork qualified in-experienced prats in too many key roles in this country. BA is just todays high profile MBA driven c**k up. Another will be long to claim the accolade tomorrow."
Don't blame the MBA itself. There are many instances, particularly in 60's, 70's & 80's Britain where companies have been run into the ground - out whole manufacturing base as a start. Most of these were run by people who DIDN'T have an MBA.
The T5 fiasco has nothing to do with MBA. It was caused by the total lack of leadership from the top. If he had been a good leader Wee Willie would have been in there right away helping his staff by taking some of the flack himself. There is such a thing as a Company culture which again, comes from the top. If the culture is bad then communications between levels of management suffer and that is what seems to have happened here. There is only one explanation as to why so many things went wrong at the same time - the project was not ready to be run. The problem was that the message never got passed up the chain OR it was ignored by the top management who were to scared for their jobs/bonuses to say "STOP".
Despite all the wisecracks about MBA's and management, every company needs GOOD management. What seems to be lacking in BA is leadership and an open door culture that encourages the two way flow of information - good and bad.
By the way, you don't have to have been at that particular coalface to well manage a company. I am retired and I have an MBA and I have successfully run companies in areas as diverse as filtration - including aviation fuel, truck manufacturing, TV, power generation and household appliances in both the US and in Europe. If I have been successful, it was because I lead from the front and encouraged the right culture within the company - teamwork.
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WW will take this on the chin and get back up fighting I'm sure. He's well able for this type of scrap. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
Love the Daily Mail style Conservative shock horror stories!!! Is your life really that dull and boring? A few posh new conveyor belts got blocked up and bags spilling all over the place! The lads down the baggage hall must have p*ssed themselves!
Meltdown/Chaos/the country's gone to the dogs/bring back QE2 and the Spitfire???
The City will really love WW when he really gets T5 down to the bone.
Love the Daily Mail style Conservative shock horror stories!!! Is your life really that dull and boring? A few posh new conveyor belts got blocked up and bags spilling all over the place! The lads down the baggage hall must have p*ssed themselves!
Meltdown/Chaos/the country's gone to the dogs/bring back QE2 and the Spitfire??? The City will really love WW when he really gets T5 down to the bone.
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Ah yes, talk of the QE2;
Yesterday passengers continued to vent their anger. Charles Thomas, 64, a wheelchair user, told of arriving in the morning to find that the lift did not work, leaving him to negotiate escalators with the help of his wife and an embarrassed porter. Thomas and his wife, Linda, travelling from Newcastle to join the QE2 in Los Angeles, had arrived at the airport at 7am and were settling in for a long wait before their next flight was due to take off just after 3pm.
'You expect something better from British Airways because you're certainly paying for it, but they wouldn't even make any lounge facility available to my husband, who has major health problems and could do with recuperating before we embark on our 12-hour flight,' Mrs Thomas said. 'The attitude of the supervisor we spoke to was completely rude. Hell will freeze over before we fly with British Airways again.'
I just wonder how many BA passengers follow through with the threat. Leadership should be practised at all levels, there would appear to be a complete lack of it at T5 at the moment, along with a lack of basic humanity.
Yesterday passengers continued to vent their anger. Charles Thomas, 64, a wheelchair user, told of arriving in the morning to find that the lift did not work, leaving him to negotiate escalators with the help of his wife and an embarrassed porter. Thomas and his wife, Linda, travelling from Newcastle to join the QE2 in Los Angeles, had arrived at the airport at 7am and were settling in for a long wait before their next flight was due to take off just after 3pm.
'You expect something better from British Airways because you're certainly paying for it, but they wouldn't even make any lounge facility available to my husband, who has major health problems and could do with recuperating before we embark on our 12-hour flight,' Mrs Thomas said. 'The attitude of the supervisor we spoke to was completely rude. Hell will freeze over before we fly with British Airways again.'
I just wonder how many BA passengers follow through with the threat. Leadership should be practised at all levels, there would appear to be a complete lack of it at T5 at the moment, along with a lack of basic humanity.
Who actually banned Sky & the Beeb from T5? Was it BA the BAA or the Police? Does that mean other news agencies such as CNN, Channel 4 etc are banned as well? What if reporters want to actually fly from there? Guess its webcams in their lapels!!!
Gone are the days of the old BOAC slogan of 'we'll take good care of you' and 'VC10derness' used to appear on billboards around London. Staff then were proud to work for the carrier.
As an old BOAC employee I hate to see what a string of inept, incompetent Managers have done over the years by eroding the service standards in all departments, and have brought the once 'world's favourite airline' almost to its knees. If WW wants to use a quote from a great leader, then he should act like one and steer the airline to position of trust that passengers and employees could be proud of.
What of the future? More empty planes flying around because passengers have voted with their feet? Who knows? time will tell.
Gone are the days of the old BOAC slogan of 'we'll take good care of you' and 'VC10derness' used to appear on billboards around London. Staff then were proud to work for the carrier.
As an old BOAC employee I hate to see what a string of inept, incompetent Managers have done over the years by eroding the service standards in all departments, and have brought the once 'world's favourite airline' almost to its knees. If WW wants to use a quote from a great leader, then he should act like one and steer the airline to position of trust that passengers and employees could be proud of.
What of the future? More empty planes flying around because passengers have voted with their feet? Who knows? time will tell.
As a card carrying MBA (Class of '84 from a top 20 in the world institution) your comments regarding the worth of this qualification are both correct and incorrect. Any decent MBA school will send you off with a reminder that an MBA is a licence to learn management.
Unfortunately companies are stupid enough to hire "wet behind the ears" MBA's into roles that are outside their capacity. I know. It happened to me. Picture a 28 year old Sunfish advising a grizzled 50 year old how to run his business. I cringe at the thought of it now.
The real issue, I believe, is that we have now substituted "Character" as a precondition for a management role, with "Merit" which has come to mean "performance"(including an MBA) in a narrow set of dimensions. There are plenty of "Industrial Psychopaths" who do "merit" very well, and therefore get promoted to where they can do considerable damage to an organisation.
Of course in the bad old days, you hired someone you had been at school with, they may not have been very bright, but at least you knew whether they were a s**t or not.
It's your call which system for selecting senior management works best.
Unfortunately companies are stupid enough to hire "wet behind the ears" MBA's into roles that are outside their capacity. I know. It happened to me. Picture a 28 year old Sunfish advising a grizzled 50 year old how to run his business. I cringe at the thought of it now.
The real issue, I believe, is that we have now substituted "Character" as a precondition for a management role, with "Merit" which has come to mean "performance"(including an MBA) in a narrow set of dimensions. There are plenty of "Industrial Psychopaths" who do "merit" very well, and therefore get promoted to where they can do considerable damage to an organisation.
Of course in the bad old days, you hired someone you had been at school with, they may not have been very bright, but at least you knew whether they were a s**t or not.
It's your call which system for selecting senior management works best.
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Link to YouTube Video
Here's the link to the Gareth Kirkwood YouTube Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsJvdS4Y5F8
I worked for him many years ago - and nothing has given me greater pleasure than watching his pathetic 'performance' here. Gareth Deadwood really is an apt name.
Why on earth he continues to be promoted within BA is beyond my comprehension.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsJvdS4Y5F8
I worked for him many years ago - and nothing has given me greater pleasure than watching his pathetic 'performance' here. Gareth Deadwood really is an apt name.
Why on earth he continues to be promoted within BA is beyond my comprehension.
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Little quiz for you all
Following is a quote from a current UK airline website. Who can fill in the gaps?
" ***** Following is a quote from a current UK airline website. Who can fill in the gaps?
" ***** had spent 11 years with British Airways where he held a range of senior commercial management positions covering areas such as in-flight product development , shorthaul brand management and most recently leading the development of the customer experience for Heathrow's Terminal 5."
Did he see the writing on the wall??."
CLUE: THe surname is the same as one individual Martin George who left BA with a handsome handshake after the 'Price fixing fiasco'. Is he a realtive?
Extra points if someone can find a picture and ask him the question above directly......
" ***** Following is a quote from a current UK airline website. Who can fill in the gaps?
" ***** had spent 11 years with British Airways where he held a range of senior commercial management positions covering areas such as in-flight product development , shorthaul brand management and most recently leading the development of the customer experience for Heathrow's Terminal 5."
Did he see the writing on the wall??."
CLUE: THe surname is the same as one individual Martin George who left BA with a handsome handshake after the 'Price fixing fiasco'. Is he a realtive?
Extra points if someone can find a picture and ask him the question above directly......
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I personally think that the only way BA are going to regain any credibility now are for the current regime that are calling the shots to go and go now as folk are now going to vote with their money and give their custom to other airlines.
Has everyone noticed how deathly quiet certain other airline CEOs have been.
Has everyone noticed how deathly quiet certain other airline CEOs have been.
Do I check baggage?
I'm flying to Tokyo on Tuesday (1st April!) on BA from T5. I have heard the stories about 15000 bags at Heathrow. I am assuming that there is an element of the press blowing things out of proportion and that some of the bags are ones that have nothing to do with T5.
What I would like to know is how well the T5 baggage "system" is working. I have the option of shipping the bags in advance - do I take it
What I would like to know is how well the T5 baggage "system" is working. I have the option of shipping the bags in advance - do I take it
Are you sure Skys camera was hidden? I watched the video and it appeared to be all above board with the implication that the filming was done on a trial run. The rest of the baggage system seemed very empty if it was being filmed on a live day.
The language in the report was a little too flufffy to substantiate much, other than what the camera revealed.
I suspect they started the clock as soon as the bag went on the scales.
There were other bags in shot, but not many!
The wide shot of a busy checkin line at the start of the report has a backpacker with a white shirt in the que. The next shot is the bag camera brushing past this guy and giving us a view of a brown bag on the scales.
Next shot is camera bag on scales with same brown bag in front of it dissapearing down the conveyer.
So there is continuity of subjects linking the wide shot at the beginning and the hidden camera bag on the conveyor.
Can anyone identify if the wide shot at the beging reveals if it was the test day?
What *is* curious is why they didnt show the bag being loaded on the aircraft. This would have added a few minutes to the journey and further underpinned their assertion that it takes an age for bags to get from checkin to hold.
Would still like to see the 40 minute unedited shot
Mickjoebill
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Was T5 really finished?
If as the title suggests T5 was not finished then the real fault was BAA's not BA's for the current fiasco.
It has become apparent that BA is having to cull up to 20% of its planned flts at the new terminal, why?
I believe its because there are insufficient stands at the new facility to run the full operation. You get a similar effect with BA's operation when the movement rate at the a/p reduces due to bad w/x, then domestic and some out & back european flts are canx. These have the least effect on the next days operations, & bring the operation into balance.
I appreciate a/c are taking longer to turnround due to the baggage problem but if the stands are not available then no amount of tinkering is going to help.
The terminal completion has been set for some time, ever since WW has been at the helm. Open Skies has been set to start this weekend, with all the terminal changes and space needed to accomodate the extra flts and of course the Queen had been booked to attend the opening.
So with all these pressures I question if all behind the facard was actually finished? Perhaps someone can comment?
Re the baggage, clearly 7000pd can not be allowed to build up in the airside vaults of T5, within a week the current 20,000 will become 50,000, then what? Are they all carted off in the dead of night to a landfill site!! or is the terminal closed or some flts moved out until the building is really finished.
If BAA can be proved to be at fault the BA will have the potential for a massive lawsuit against them.
It has become apparent that BA is having to cull up to 20% of its planned flts at the new terminal, why?
I believe its because there are insufficient stands at the new facility to run the full operation. You get a similar effect with BA's operation when the movement rate at the a/p reduces due to bad w/x, then domestic and some out & back european flts are canx. These have the least effect on the next days operations, & bring the operation into balance.
I appreciate a/c are taking longer to turnround due to the baggage problem but if the stands are not available then no amount of tinkering is going to help.
The terminal completion has been set for some time, ever since WW has been at the helm. Open Skies has been set to start this weekend, with all the terminal changes and space needed to accomodate the extra flts and of course the Queen had been booked to attend the opening.
So with all these pressures I question if all behind the facard was actually finished? Perhaps someone can comment?
Re the baggage, clearly 7000pd can not be allowed to build up in the airside vaults of T5, within a week the current 20,000 will become 50,000, then what? Are they all carted off in the dead of night to a landfill site!! or is the terminal closed or some flts moved out until the building is really finished.
If BAA can be proved to be at fault the BA will have the potential for a massive lawsuit against them.
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bmi takes advantage
just seen on the bmi website that they are showing 'BA flight disruption' and offering people a link to book a new flight with bmi or call them. You can still book a flight an hour before STD. Nice one bmi well done.
If all BA pax who where fed up with T5 and BA in general started flying with bmi, Virgin and other leading world airlines like Singapore then this baggage moutain would soon clear and BA managers will be looking at a balance sheet in the red. With just a nice big bill for T5 rent all over it.
And before anyone asks I do work for the other carrier and I am a little sick of BA this and oh BA that. 'T5 welcome to our new home'. More like welcome to our new circus tent. Let get the BA managers out doing some circus tricks for our passengers while we loose their bags for them.
All I can say T1 is great now BA have run off to T5.
If all BA pax who where fed up with T5 and BA in general started flying with bmi, Virgin and other leading world airlines like Singapore then this baggage moutain would soon clear and BA managers will be looking at a balance sheet in the red. With just a nice big bill for T5 rent all over it.
And before anyone asks I do work for the other carrier and I am a little sick of BA this and oh BA that. 'T5 welcome to our new home'. More like welcome to our new circus tent. Let get the BA managers out doing some circus tricks for our passengers while we loose their bags for them.
All I can say T1 is great now BA have run off to T5.
No conspiracy
It would appear that someone is very busy with the gagging tools.
??????
??????
Try searching for "Terminal 5"
It delivers +30 pages of links to T5 problems.
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If all BA pax who where fed up with T5 and BA in general started flying with bmi, Virgin ...
Just spend an age on a VERY busy Virgin Atlantic site to book Premium Economy with them instead. Strangely, this Gold Card holder is also vowing never to fly with BA again. I doubt whether that statement will hold true, but it is definitely true that (from Dubai at least) Emirates and Virgin are most definitely scoring big, thanks to BA's own goal.
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You can bet that BA's compensation payments, not to mention their incoming legals, are going to cost mega mega millions.
The TOTAL incompetency of the management is breathtaking. Little wonder they are attempting to shut the media up, which in itself is a huge mistake. It is clear that the management are trying to protect their own images and seem to care little for their passengers who have been treated very badly. Good management that!
BA and BAA were never ready for the launch of T5 and there should be a basket of heads around somewhere, but with BA's usual arrogance they carry on mis-leading everyone and seem not to have grasped the fact that they have blown it!
WW will no longer be a favourite of city, or even the most modest investor in regard to the fortunes of BA who are, on their own, bringing into disrepute the integrity of British air travel.
Their balance sheet is heading for a ginormous fall after this fiasco. They must sort out EXACTLY what went wrong and who caused it. Then wield the axe and hope they can recover - but somehow I rather doubt they can.
The TOTAL incompetency of the management is breathtaking. Little wonder they are attempting to shut the media up, which in itself is a huge mistake. It is clear that the management are trying to protect their own images and seem to care little for their passengers who have been treated very badly. Good management that!
BA and BAA were never ready for the launch of T5 and there should be a basket of heads around somewhere, but with BA's usual arrogance they carry on mis-leading everyone and seem not to have grasped the fact that they have blown it!
WW will no longer be a favourite of city, or even the most modest investor in regard to the fortunes of BA who are, on their own, bringing into disrepute the integrity of British air travel.
Their balance sheet is heading for a ginormous fall after this fiasco. They must sort out EXACTLY what went wrong and who caused it. Then wield the axe and hope they can recover - but somehow I rather doubt they can.
