Chaos at Terminal 5
ThRedBearOne
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Does anyone else remember the job ad that BA put out a couple(?) of months ago for a Service Recovery Manager.
By God! Someone will be earning their package this week!
By God! Someone will be earning their package this week!
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Its the first few days of a complex new operation. No surprise there's been problems. Not helped by the snowball effect. I think we'll still see very healthy profits for all concerned once all is up and running.
However the BA Ops guy should delegate TV statements in future. Some, like him, have an unfortunate knack of coming across badly, for whatever reason.
However the BA Ops guy should delegate TV statements in future. Some, like him, have an unfortunate knack of coming across badly, for whatever reason.
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Even the damage control is appalling here. Look at Branson after the Virgin Rail derailment, open, upset and empathetic with his customers and those affected. As was said, Mr Bishop after Kegworth. Perhaps not a loss of life but mayhem and delay all round still. They are media amateurs it seems, a long way from the days of Lord King and Colin Marshall.
Join Date: Nov 2000
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no option after getting sucked in at the grotty shopping mall checkouts
My last several recent trips through airports go like this:
(1) Arrive two hours before take-off, as that's the earliers the check-in desk opens.
(2) Queue two hours for check-in.
(4) Queue forty minutes for security.
(5) Get onto plane late, and continue to wait on plane for the other late passengers to finish queueing.
OK, if you're travelling with someone, one of you can keep the position in the queue whilst the other goes off to get some sandwiches, so you can have a "meal" consisting of eating sandwiches standing up in a queue, but there's no other opportunity to do any shopping.
Has it not occurred to airport mangements that if the punters didn't have to spend all their time queueing they might actually get to spend some money in the shops?
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I suspect MO'L had a hand in the chaos at T5.
Yet again yesterday he is quoted as saying that BAA needs to be broken up. The mismanagement over T5 simply reinforces his argument.
btw, he actually prepared a press statement yesterday that did NOT mention that there would be no fuel surcharges, ever.
However, later in the day, announcing the loss of 40 jobs at the call centre in Dublin, he did manage to add it to the end of the statement.
Yet again yesterday he is quoted as saying that BAA needs to be broken up. The mismanagement over T5 simply reinforces his argument.
btw, he actually prepared a press statement yesterday that did NOT mention that there would be no fuel surcharges, ever.
However, later in the day, announcing the loss of 40 jobs at the call centre in Dublin, he did manage to add it to the end of the statement.
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Open All Hours!
Thought I would take a long weekend off in beautiful Prague...great idea
and fly from the new terminal 5
Now I am here late and without my luggage...thanks to BA/BAA and the T5 fiasco. Well Messrs Walsh and Kirkwood and the unnamed BAA management - your airport shops do you proud...lots of staff and things to buy - Not that I did!
Unfortunately airside is a shambles. Got through the gate two hours late...no announcements or apologies...nobody to put our luggage on the aircraft. So BA made a unilateral decision to fly us without it. Then we couldn't get a tug for a pushback? The Captain and crew were marvellous and tried to explain what they knew...
...Now I have to buy clothes and a new suitcase for the stay and journey home...P L E A S E BA/BAA don't lose these
...I know one thing - my flying days from T5 will be over sooner than I expected.
and fly from the new terminal 5Now I am here late and without my luggage...thanks to BA/BAA and the T5 fiasco. Well Messrs Walsh and Kirkwood and the unnamed BAA management - your airport shops do you proud...lots of staff and things to buy - Not that I did!
Unfortunately airside is a shambles. Got through the gate two hours late...no announcements or apologies...nobody to put our luggage on the aircraft. So BA made a unilateral decision to fly us without it. Then we couldn't get a tug for a pushback? The Captain and crew were marvellous and tried to explain what they knew...
...Now I have to buy clothes and a new suitcase for the stay and journey home...P L E A S E BA/BAA don't lose these
...I know one thing - my flying days from T5 will be over sooner than I expected.
Eight Gun Fighter
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I've not travelled through T5 and probably won't as BA is not my airline, so I won't comment on the various fiascos, those utter failures of preparation and planning.
I've never understood what the attraction of the post-security shops are. There is no more duty-free. All they seem to do is hamper progression from security to the gates, so I usually get to glimpse the pricing. Unless the goods at them are actually cheaper then in peoples home countries - why bother? - and aside for possibly Scandinavia, I can't really think of anywhere where they would be cheaper. I laugh when I see the prices. Actually laugh.
I buy real duty-free onboard the flight home and save about 50% over the crap offered at LHR. I might buy a chocolate bar or have a cheeseburger at the pub, but that's it.
I've never understood what the attraction of the post-security shops are. There is no more duty-free. All they seem to do is hamper progression from security to the gates, so I usually get to glimpse the pricing. Unless the goods at them are actually cheaper then in peoples home countries - why bother? - and aside for possibly Scandinavia, I can't really think of anywhere where they would be cheaper. I laugh when I see the prices. Actually laugh.
I buy real duty-free onboard the flight home and save about 50% over the crap offered at LHR. I might buy a chocolate bar or have a cheeseburger at the pub, but that's it.
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Can someone enlighten me on the difference between Gerald Ratner & Willie Walsh other than that WW still retains his job ?
Sorry, but I think I have worked it out myself, Ratner admitted selling "crap" !
Sorry, but I think I have worked it out myself, Ratner admitted selling "crap" !
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What's next?
Well I guess Willie’s knighthood is completely out of the window now! Perhaps a peerage would be the most appropriate piece of historical ‘baggage’ for him to carry, in his soon to become retirement, “ Lord Walsh of T5”. Very deserving I would say.
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Ratner v Willie
Ratner is taller than 5ft4"
Ratner has humility
Ratner ruined his OWN business
Ratner was actually 'joking' not serious in his remarks
You'd probably buy Gerald Ratner a beer
Oh I just found this the ROOTS of Willie Walsh' name
Forename: William
Origin: German (Root: William)
Meaning: Will Helmet
Surname: Walsh
Origin: A Welshman - A Gaul, which the Germans pronounce with a 'w,' as Wallic for Gaulic. Wallis, Wallish, Walsh. The Welsh were originally from Gaul.
Well that's it for me, what a combination, a Germanic Welshman with an Irish accent!!!!! No wonder he wants to destroy British business...
Ratner has humility
Ratner ruined his OWN business
Ratner was actually 'joking' not serious in his remarks
You'd probably buy Gerald Ratner a beer
Oh I just found this the ROOTS of Willie Walsh' name
Forename: William
Origin: German (Root: William)
Meaning: Will Helmet
Surname: Walsh
Origin: A Welshman - A Gaul, which the Germans pronounce with a 'w,' as Wallic for Gaulic. Wallis, Wallish, Walsh. The Welsh were originally from Gaul.
Well that's it for me, what a combination, a Germanic Welshman with an Irish accent!!!!! No wonder he wants to destroy British business...
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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I understand that due to the poor publicity with T5 there will be a name change. In future it will be known as;
Little Willie's Comedy Warehouse.
Comedians are being recruited for a 24hr a day show, Ken Dodd and his Happiness Show from Knotty Ash will now be from Perry Oaks. He has been signed up for the first 5 hours so don't miss the last plane home, followed by an extended live version of Father Ted.
Little Willie's Comedy Warehouse.
Comedians are being recruited for a 24hr a day show, Ken Dodd and his Happiness Show from Knotty Ash will now be from Perry Oaks. He has been signed up for the first 5 hours so don't miss the last plane home, followed by an extended live version of Father Ted.
I had the dubious pleasure of spending several hours in T5 on day one and had a lot of time to speak to staff. The underlying problem seemed to be a total lack of information and very few middle / senior managers on site able to make decisions and to apply some flexibility with the rules to keep things moving. Staff had identified many simple problems which could be fixed easily, but they were not allowed to change anything as Management had a plan and were sticking to it regardless. Only about ¼ of the fast bag drop desks were open and most were manned by staff who were having to make it up as they went along. After queuing for about 25 minutes at a “fast bag drop” we got to the front only to find the teenager behind the desk receiving a text message. She had to go, “it was what the phone told her”. So there we all were, the desk closed and we had to join another queue. This was just one example of a problem that could have been fixed easily, if there was anyone with authority on the shop floor. The general consensus was that most of the managers were hiding.
There was a small gaggle of managers hogging the seats in Nero complaining that they had been up since 4 am. It’s a good job no one who had hobble in from a long-haul flight heard those conversations. In between sipping his late, one was making loud calls to HQ explaining (apart from a few protesters) how well it was all going. A couple of hours later just as people started staggering out of baggage reclaim after a four hour wait, someone was overheard discussing with a BAA boss the fact that some bad news press reports were getting out and that they needed to “suppress” them. Wonder how they do that?
The general consensus of the front of house staff was that it was 90% good, but they were deeply frustrated at the lack of support or visibility from those above in listening to and dealing with the niggles which combined were bringing the place to it’s knees.
If BA / BAA are to be allowed to control such a massive public building, they should be forced to have some serious contingency plans in place. For starters, 10,000 deck chairs so that the people arriving in knackered off long-haul flights don’t have to sit on a marble floor waiting four hours for bags. Until basic human comfort provision is in place, they should be allowed to operate the building.
sky9. One of the helpers I met admitted that she didn't know anything about BA and didn't have any numbers for he moble phone since she was an actress and had just been hired in for the day to be nice to people.
There was a small gaggle of managers hogging the seats in Nero complaining that they had been up since 4 am. It’s a good job no one who had hobble in from a long-haul flight heard those conversations. In between sipping his late, one was making loud calls to HQ explaining (apart from a few protesters) how well it was all going. A couple of hours later just as people started staggering out of baggage reclaim after a four hour wait, someone was overheard discussing with a BAA boss the fact that some bad news press reports were getting out and that they needed to “suppress” them. Wonder how they do that?
The general consensus of the front of house staff was that it was 90% good, but they were deeply frustrated at the lack of support or visibility from those above in listening to and dealing with the niggles which combined were bringing the place to it’s knees.
If BA / BAA are to be allowed to control such a massive public building, they should be forced to have some serious contingency plans in place. For starters, 10,000 deck chairs so that the people arriving in knackered off long-haul flights don’t have to sit on a marble floor waiting four hours for bags. Until basic human comfort provision is in place, they should be allowed to operate the building.
sky9. One of the helpers I met admitted that she didn't know anything about BA and didn't have any numbers for he moble phone since she was an actress and had just been hired in for the day to be nice to people.
Last edited by biddedout; 29th Mar 2008 at 22:01.
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Birdseed Airways
I have never liked BA Management,ever since I lost a confirmed course and job with Britannia,when BA closed Hamble,and was told that a 21 year old Hamster was a better bet than a low houred 16/38 cat entry!!!Later on I had the misfortune to fly Lord King up to his shooting estate in Scotland,as Speedbird 1000,from an AOC Charter Company,usually nothing to do with Birdseed.Not only was he exceedingly rude,arrogant,he seemed totally unaware of what it entailed to fly himself and his Shooting Party,up North,and stated very loudly that any problems that may arise would be because the crew were not wearing BA Uniforms!!!!!Suffice it to say,everything went well and at least some of the pax actually expressed their thanks.Not so,Lord King,who stormed off into the distance to his Limo.All their problems stem from an air of arrogance, that pervades the entire company.So called mates of mine,having obtained their shiny 4 silver bars,used to say that apart from the "Checks",they never had a conversation with their F/O,nor even could remember his name!!!!I believe this still exists.This time the 7 Ps spring to mind,and should be firmly embedded on the Wonka Factory Bosses Head-Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.It could'nt have happened to a nicer Airline!!!!
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So called mates of mine,having obtained their shiny 4 silver bars,used to say that apart from the "Checks",they never had a conversation with their F/O,nor even could remember his name!!!!I believe this still exists
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Hands on leadership, Lord King style
Willy Walsh is a fun name. And he's Irish.
Expectation: personality, creativity, lateral thinking, inspiration, no bull****.
Realisation: an early-model android. It's not just that he's short. Michael Edwardes, who faced up to Red Robbo at BL, was short. It's that WW is short on stature, short on leadership and, above all, short on putting together a manageent team that don't look like the invasion of the body snatchers.
In the days running up to T5 launch, somebody told BA management that they hadn't had enough training/familiarisation with the luggage handling system. It doesn't matter whether that warning is genuine or mischevious. It's a dead cert that, unattended, it will prove itself to be correct on the fateful day. Who at BA did the baggage handlers' leader raise this concern/warning? Whoever it was, the warning was ignored. Of course, it wasn't relayed to WW because no one gets on in BA by imparting bad news to one's boss. That's typical corporate culture today. Only the right kind of boss at the top can encourage honest communication rather than whitewash. WW is clearly not that kind of boss. He is a drone surrounded by drones. Witness his performance when interviewed after the T5 meltdown. He actually thinks that saying sorry will help his PR. But the BA head of ops who read out to reporters a platudinous statement of the obvious, with all the personality of a speaking clock, and then glided away without answering any questions, that's the true and unacceptable face of BA. As long as WW allows such people to be senior managers at BA, the airline will continue to be a pseudo-nationalised basket case.
It's amazing that pilots can somehow overcome corporate obstacles of this magnitude and get aeroplanes safely to their destination. I feel so sorry for them. They are working for an airline that once had enormous prestige and through no fault of theirs, is now reviled.
Expectation: personality, creativity, lateral thinking, inspiration, no bull****.
Realisation: an early-model android. It's not just that he's short. Michael Edwardes, who faced up to Red Robbo at BL, was short. It's that WW is short on stature, short on leadership and, above all, short on putting together a manageent team that don't look like the invasion of the body snatchers.
In the days running up to T5 launch, somebody told BA management that they hadn't had enough training/familiarisation with the luggage handling system. It doesn't matter whether that warning is genuine or mischevious. It's a dead cert that, unattended, it will prove itself to be correct on the fateful day. Who at BA did the baggage handlers' leader raise this concern/warning? Whoever it was, the warning was ignored. Of course, it wasn't relayed to WW because no one gets on in BA by imparting bad news to one's boss. That's typical corporate culture today. Only the right kind of boss at the top can encourage honest communication rather than whitewash. WW is clearly not that kind of boss. He is a drone surrounded by drones. Witness his performance when interviewed after the T5 meltdown. He actually thinks that saying sorry will help his PR. But the BA head of ops who read out to reporters a platudinous statement of the obvious, with all the personality of a speaking clock, and then glided away without answering any questions, that's the true and unacceptable face of BA. As long as WW allows such people to be senior managers at BA, the airline will continue to be a pseudo-nationalised basket case.
It's amazing that pilots can somehow overcome corporate obstacles of this magnitude and get aeroplanes safely to their destination. I feel so sorry for them. They are working for an airline that once had enormous prestige and through no fault of theirs, is now reviled.
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To what extent is this symptomatic at BA?
OK, after wading through the entire thread I think we got the message: the project management was dire and the interface between BA, BAA, and the project was evidently faulty. (I'm being nice).
Longer term, it will settle down. But, what interests me is whether there are any takeaways in terms of BA management in other areas of the business. If they really are this bad at listening to staff and predicting managing and sorting problems, does this also mean that I should be concerned about things like maintenance and reliability, training, safety reporting, the decisions they made over their long-term fleet replacement, etc? Or is this just an isolated event? And those of you who know me know I'm an oilhead, not a journo, although its a journo-type question. Is this a one-off?
Pinkman
Longer term, it will settle down. But, what interests me is whether there are any takeaways in terms of BA management in other areas of the business. If they really are this bad at listening to staff and predicting managing and sorting problems, does this also mean that I should be concerned about things like maintenance and reliability, training, safety reporting, the decisions they made over their long-term fleet replacement, etc? Or is this just an isolated event? And those of you who know me know I'm an oilhead, not a journo, although its a journo-type question. Is this a one-off?
Pinkman