Southwest Airlines (SWA)

[411A]

The young guys feel disenfranchised ....

It makes absolutely no difference what the younger guys think (or feel), the deal is done.
Older guys call the tune.

Since when are younger guys consulted about anything?

IF, on the other hand, those 'disenfranchised' younger guys want to quit and apply separately to Southwest, they have that option.

[West Coast]

Now, just why would a Captain at Frontier want to become a jr First Officer at Southwest?

"Want" really isn't a realistic sticking point, though FAPA made it one. The only reasonable expectation a Captain flying for a company in bankruptcy and whose other option is to be owned by a regional is to bargain for long term employment. Look at what's happening with the Midwest pilot force to see what direction Republic might go with it's other new acquisition. Look at the volatile nature of parent company Republic's business plan vs other large regional's and see the possibility of the parent company having financial issues.
I understand the emotive nature of integration and loss of pay and QOL but sometimes you have to know when your back is against the wall.
I like F9 and the product it puts out, but the reality is SWA is going to go for the jugular and soon FAPA will see the foolishness of it's approach.

I hope I'm wrong however.

[411A]

I like F9 and the product it puts out...

So do I, and I sure do hope they succeed....time will tell.

[AIEXPATS]

So you belong to Republic - now what?

What was the main factors for the bankruptcy?
Did the pilots have to make concessions?
How many pilots does Frontier have?
As Republic won the bid and pledged not to absorb the airline as Southwest wanted, how do you pilots feel the future will roll on for you?

[Desert Diner]

It looks like Southwest now has its sights on the largers cities.

Absorbing Frontier would have given them access to Denver. Now all this means is that they will go in by themselves and Frontier will probably be the first casualty. The Frontier pilots may still end up working for Southwest down the road, but only through the application process.

Nice one guys, effectively chosing to go with a subsidiary of a regional carrier. Good luck.

[sludge]

There would have been no pay cut for any F9 pilot. Captains would have lost their seat but kept their pay, and they ALL would have had raises in a very short time.

[411A]

Now all this means is that they will go in by themselves and Frontier will probably be the first casualty.

It could work out this way, however Southwest has slowed down delivery of airplanes and they may well not have the capacity to increase flights to DEN presently...otherwise, they would not have had an interest in Frontier and would have just bought more airplanes and not bothered with any other carrier.
Younger folks in the airline business often jump to conclusions and look at the situation just from a pilots perspective, which is often rather obscured, to say the least.

[weasil]

Originally Posted by Desert Diner

It looks like Southwest now has its sights on the largers cities.

Absorbing Frontier would have given them access to Denver. Now all this means is that they will go in by themselves and Frontier will probably be the first casualty.

SWA has been in Denver for quite some time. They have a very significant presence there already. Check out the C gates next time you go there. It's starting to look like Midway.

"Over time, Frontier's domestic capacity in Denver, currently about 10% of the market, would likely supplement Southwest's operation incrementally, as growth warrants. In the interim, Southwest would immediately become a stronger competitor to United, which has a 36% market share at Denver, compared with 21% for Frontier and 12% for Southwest, according to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics."
Southwest Airlines Moves In on Frontier - BusinessWeek

[411A]

Southwest, which is truly a US trunk carrier now, would do well to try code-share agreements with select smaller carriers, instead of 'going it alone'.
I suspect that they may well try this in the future.
This would conserve their cash position, meanwhile provide added capacity.
However, should they try this, they need to be sure that the smaller code-share partner can provide the same level of service that Southwest is known for...just basic, on-time air transportation.
Anything else will absolutely not do.

[West Coast]

Southwest, which is truly a US trunk carrier now, would do well to try code-share agreements with select smaller carriers, instead of 'going it alone'.

Perhaps, but not in one that is a hub (even if they don't want to call it that) they are competing in and want to further their presence at. Something down in the SE perhaps. Anyway they have made some small steps in that direction as of late with some of the agreements they have signed with other airlines.

[FlynDiver]

More money and job security 411 thats why. They let their ego get in the way of a good career and job security. Good luck to them they made their bed now they get to lie in it.

[weasil]

411A RE: Southwest codeshare

Southwest signed a codeshare with Canada's WestJet last year. They also were in negotations with regional carrier SkyWest Airlines but nothing came of this deal yet as far as we know.

[CaptW5]

The SW/WestJet deal is delayed:

WestJet growth plan hits snag as Southwest delays deal

Apparently still going ahead with Volaris

[CaptW5]

Republic owned Midwest employees face layoffs:

ATW Daily News

Tuesday August 18, 2009

An estimated 100 Midwest Airlines employees will lose their jobs following its acquisition by Republic Airways Holdings, a Republic spokesperson confirmed yesterday to ATWOnline.

Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification Act letters, required by law when job changes are scheduled to occur, were sent to 158 Midwest employees based at Milwaukee General Mitchell International stating that layoffs will begin Aug. 31. Of those who received the letters, 88 are flight crew members who may be able to join Republic after seniority list integration, according to the company. That integration will be determined by Midwest's Air Line Pilots Assn. and Republic's International Brotherhood of Teamsters representatives.

Republic said another 33 notified employees are mechanics, some of whom will retain positions for Republic at MKE. The remaining employees include administration and managerial workers who could be duplicates of existing administrative staff based in Indianapolis. Midwest has around 1,600 employees.

In addition, Republic told this website that the Midwest fleet of 99-seat 717s will be phased out and replaced by 99-seat E-190s.

[weasil]

Originally Posted by SWA Spokesperson

"We do intend to implement the code-share with WestJet as previously planned, it's just a delay in the timing," said Brandy King, a Southwest spokeswoman. "We don't know the exact time frame, but I would say the earliest it would be implemented would be late 2010."

This is a quote from the link posted by CaptW5 - Southwest is still planning on getting into the codeshare business.

[kappa]

Southwest will be able to codeshare only when it updates the home-grown in-house "legacy" IT computer system (which is figuratively "steam powered") so it can communicate with another airline - any other airline!

[Desert Diner]

Pity they are going down that route, as Southwests financial sucess can in part be attributed to them avoiding codeshares or any other entanglements with other airlines.

[laxman]

411

F9 pilots face a very uncertain future as part of Republic Air Holdings. From the many former RAH pilots who I have talked to who are now here at SWA, this is what they are looking at; parking their Airbuses and transitioning to EMB-190, which involves a pay cut, prob around $70 an hour for Caps, 35 for FO's, lots of furloughs as RAH eliminates unprofitable routes, many captains perhaps losing their left seat as the F9 route structure shrinks, no 401k, much worse career expectation as a member of RAH.

So compare that with the fact that at SWA they would have had their pay maintained at Pre-Concessionary rates, albeit at the bottom of the SWA seniority list, 401k, Profit Sharing (assuming we are profitable), and no furloughs (maybe?) They are looking at a 50% pay cut, versus at least a 10% pay raise-for captains, and up to 30% payraise (minimum) for the FO's, so yeah, a lot of us here at SWA were puzzled by their intransigence.

I wasn't in the room for negotiations, but reading between the lines, I think that the F9 guys were making a very big bet. I think that they believed that SWA wanted F9 so bad that they would remove the labor contingencies, and lacking an agreement between SWA and F9 pilots, the process would eventually lead to arbitration, where in all likelihood, they would do better than a staple.

Honestly, I wish them luck with RAH. These days, I think we all need it.

[onursix]

Why would a Frontier Capt want to come over and be a SWA F/O?

Gee, maybe for some stability, and the fact that after two years they'd be making the same or more in the right seat at SWA, then they did at Frontier in the left seat. Duh.

[PantLoad]

Well Stated...

ONURSIX....Well stated.... It's all about money, then job security and money, then benefits and money, then money, then retirement and money, then money

You all get the idea.......


So, you're offering me a job flying right seat in a Cessna 172? What does it pay....I might be interested.....


Fly safe,



PantLoad