Southwest Airlines (SWA)
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Southwest, Frontier pilots at impasse
UPDATE 1-Southwest, Frontier pilots at impasse-spokesman | Markets | Markets News | Reuters
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Union stalemate threatens Southwest Airlines' bid for Frontier
Union stalemate threatens Southwest Airlines' bid for Frontier 3:28 PM CT | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Latest News
UPDATE 1-Southwest, Frontier pilots at impasse-spokesman | Markets | Markets News | Reuters
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Union stalemate threatens Southwest Airlines' bid for Frontier
Union stalemate threatens Southwest Airlines' bid for Frontier 3:28 PM CT | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Latest News
Last edited by CaptW5; 13th Aug 2009 at 20:36.
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NEW YORK (Reuters) - Shares of Southwest Airlines Co (LUV.N) shed as much as 4.5 percent on Friday, a day after the low-cost carrier lost its bid for bankrupt Frontier Airlines Holdings Inc (FRNTQ.PK).
The loss came as a surprise to industry analysts, who had expected Southwest to beat out much-smaller rival Republic Airways Holdings Inc (RJET.O). Since Dallas-based Southwest announced its intention to buy Frontier, its stock has gained roughly 15 percent.
"It seems natural to take profits on incrementally negative news here," said Next Generation analyst Daniel McKenzie. "The bad news here is exacerbating pricing problems in Denver."
Republic Airways shares rose 7.2 percent, or 43 cents, to $6.43 in early trading on the New York Stock Exchange.
Southwest stock lost 3.6 percent, or 33 cents, to $8.91. It fell as low as $8.82.
Southwest had been the heavy favorite in the bidding war and had offered to pay $170 million for Frontier, which filed for bankruptcy last year.
Republic, which is paying $108.75 million, trumped the Dallas-based carrier's offer by agreeing to waive recovery rights on its $150 million unsecured claim. [ID:nN13534586]
The loss came as a surprise to industry analysts, who had expected Southwest to beat out much-smaller rival Republic Airways Holdings Inc (RJET.O). Since Dallas-based Southwest announced its intention to buy Frontier, its stock has gained roughly 15 percent.
"It seems natural to take profits on incrementally negative news here," said Next Generation analyst Daniel McKenzie. "The bad news here is exacerbating pricing problems in Denver."
Republic Airways shares rose 7.2 percent, or 43 cents, to $6.43 in early trading on the New York Stock Exchange.
Southwest stock lost 3.6 percent, or 33 cents, to $8.91. It fell as low as $8.82.
Southwest had been the heavy favorite in the bidding war and had offered to pay $170 million for Frontier, which filed for bankruptcy last year.
Republic, which is paying $108.75 million, trumped the Dallas-based carrier's offer by agreeing to waive recovery rights on its $150 million unsecured claim. [ID:nN13534586]
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Plain and simple...Southwest trying to eliminate competition.
Failed.
The Frontier pilots could see this coming, and rejected the deal.
IE: GOOD for the flying public...passengers.
GOOD for the Frontier pilots as well, as time will tell.
Phooey on Southwest, they are brought back in line, just where they belong.
Southwest is a US trunk carrier now, so they will just have to get used to 'upstarts' nibbling at their profits.
GOOD!
NB.
And...no, I don't work for a US airline, but can certainly see what Southwest is trying to do.
They have dropped the ball, big time, by offering Frontier pilots the bottom of the 'merged' seniority list.
Dumb...dumb...dumb.
If, on the other hand, they had offered 'intregration' on a reasonable scale, then they would have prevailed.
GREED gets nowhere.
Ha!
As usual.
Failed.
The Frontier pilots could see this coming, and rejected the deal.
IE: GOOD for the flying public...passengers.
GOOD for the Frontier pilots as well, as time will tell.
Phooey on Southwest, they are brought back in line, just where they belong.
Southwest is a US trunk carrier now, so they will just have to get used to 'upstarts' nibbling at their profits.
GOOD!
NB.
And...no, I don't work for a US airline, but can certainly see what Southwest is trying to do.
They have dropped the ball, big time, by offering Frontier pilots the bottom of the 'merged' seniority list.
Dumb...dumb...dumb.
If, on the other hand, they had offered 'intregration' on a reasonable scale, then they would have prevailed.
GREED gets nowhere.
Ha!
As usual.
Last edited by 411A; 14th Aug 2009 at 19:10.
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Greed was not an issue here. If the management of Southwest was greedy, they would have dropped the labor agreement portion of thier bid. They easily could have forced the Southwest pilots to merge with Frontier's, which would have probably ended up in arbitration, with alot of unhappy pilots.
The Southwest Pilots are the ones who stopped this deal by demanding to staple the F9 pilots to the bottom of the seniority list. The thinking was to piss off as few as our own pilots as possible. Yes, some might have been responding to greed, but some of us are watching out for our F.O.'s, who are the ones who would have suffered the most in anything but stapling the list to the bottom. You may not agree with that thinking, but greed was not the primary motivator.
The Southwest Pilots are the ones who stopped this deal by demanding to staple the F9 pilots to the bottom of the seniority list. The thinking was to piss off as few as our own pilots as possible. Yes, some might have been responding to greed, but some of us are watching out for our F.O.'s, who are the ones who would have suffered the most in anything but stapling the list to the bottom. You may not agree with that thinking, but greed was not the primary motivator.
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Well 411a, this is exactly the deal the Morris pilots got, and that seemed to work pretty darn good. Matter of fact, I seem to recall reading an article that called it "the best airline merger ever", or something to that effect. You would be VERY hard pressed to find a former MA pilot who is not happy at SWA. Methinks the F9 guys will live to regret this. I hope they DON'T, not wishing ill on anyone, but just looking at historical precedent.
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Even with Republic getting F9 you are still going to have Republic Captains and FO's who will want to be Airbus pilots. Of course depending on how Republic and Frontier integrate their senority lists.
Whether it was Southwest or Republic, Frontier personel are going to take a beating. Let just hope the US economy does not take a further downturn and Frontier ends up like TWA after 9-11
VFD
Whether it was Southwest or Republic, Frontier personel are going to take a beating. Let just hope the US economy does not take a further downturn and Frontier ends up like TWA after 9-11
VFD
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411: you didn't need to tell us that you didn't work for a US airline. We could have figured that out by how bad you missed the ball in the rest of your post.
You're so far off that it's not worth responding. Plain and simple my....nevermind.
You're so far off that it's not worth responding. Plain and simple my....nevermind.
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411A your an idiot. The F9 guys would have made more money over their career had they accepted the SWA offer. They made a huge mistake. It won't take long before their new owner makes that apparent. I feel sorry for my friends that are still there.
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The F9 guys would have made more money over their career had they accepted the SWA offer. They made a huge mistake.
Therefore, you are forgiven
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The FAPA had some pretty unreasonable requests. Their negotiators are going to have a heckuva homecoming party. Ouch. I believe this was a "cutting off your nose to spite your face" situation.
You can dislike SWA all you want, but the facts are the F9 guys would have been treated VERY well at SWA. SWA is not so dumb as to alienate all the Frontier customer base and lose them. SWA is a reputable company that provides an honest deal and great value. They also pay their bills. I'm not sure that's something companies in bankruptcy do.
You can dislike SWA all you want, but the facts are the F9 guys would have been treated VERY well at SWA. SWA is not so dumb as to alienate all the Frontier customer base and lose them. SWA is a reputable company that provides an honest deal and great value. They also pay their bills. I'm not sure that's something companies in bankruptcy do.
Their negotiators are going to have a heckuva homecoming party.
A few cars with key marks in the crew parking lot for sure.
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Originally Posted by PaperTiger
What for ? The Q400 flights ?
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Quote:
The few I know over there are FO's and were quite happy to have hitched their wagons to SWA.
I expect they would, however, First Officers don't count for much....Captains rule.
Like it or lump it.
Always has been, always will be.
Now, just why would a Captain at Frontier want to become a jr First Officer at Southwest?
The few I know over there are FO's and were quite happy to have hitched their wagons to SWA.
I expect they would, however, First Officers don't count for much....Captains rule.
Like it or lump it.
Always has been, always will be.
Now, just why would a Captain at Frontier want to become a jr First Officer at Southwest?
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Judging by F9's demands, I dont think they(F9) wanted the deal to go through in the first place. on top of all the other demands.
1. Denver Domicile protection forever.
2. Furlough pay for furloughed pilots 3k/month....forever.
3. Medical benefits for furloughed pilots and families......forvever.
And oh by the way, SWAPA and FAPA had less than a week to sort it out. Was not meant to be.
I thought Frontier was bankrupted?
1. Denver Domicile protection forever.
2. Furlough pay for furloughed pilots 3k/month....forever.
3. Medical benefits for furloughed pilots and families......forvever.
And oh by the way, SWAPA and FAPA had less than a week to sort it out. Was not meant to be.
I thought Frontier was bankrupted?
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411A your never going to win this one, right or wrong, as this thread will start looking like the Jerry Springer show or something you might see over on the PPW web site. The young guys feel disenfranchised and no matter what you say....your wrong.
I do think one needs to watch for the unintended consequences that might come out of this decision over the next eighteen months
I do think one needs to watch for the unintended consequences that might come out of this decision over the next eighteen months