Dispatches: Checking Into Airport Chaos
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Dispatches: Checking Into Airport Chaos
Anybody watching/watched this programme presented by Andrew Gillinghan.
Some of it was interesting but a lot of it appeared to be journalistic license.
I was not overly convinced by the making of the liquid bomb. They mixed it and stood up chatting next to it through however many takes? (Assuming one camera was used). Why didn't it blow up while they were mixing it? What made it blow up? How did they know how long it would take for it to blow up? When the gent poured out the water from the water bottle, how was he sure that the little bit of water left in the bottle wouldn't change the reaction times/state of the 'bomb'?
Some of it was interesting but a lot of it appeared to be journalistic license.
I was not overly convinced by the making of the liquid bomb. They mixed it and stood up chatting next to it through however many takes? (Assuming one camera was used). Why didn't it blow up while they were mixing it? What made it blow up? How did they know how long it would take for it to blow up? When the gent poured out the water from the water bottle, how was he sure that the little bit of water left in the bottle wouldn't change the reaction times/state of the 'bomb'?
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The phrase "sexed up" jumps irresistably to mind! 
In fairness, it is interesting and wide ranging. I can imagine the BAA throwing a hissy fit over it. It will be interesting to see what impact this will have on plans to split the BAA up ... something which should be moved further up the political agenda.
In fairness, it is interesting and wide ranging. I can imagine the BAA throwing a hissy fit over it. It will be interesting to see what impact this will have on plans to split the BAA up ... something which should be moved further up the political agenda.
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Ref the liquid explosive - they did say that an electrical detonator was required, I think. Didn't show it, perhaps for obvious reasons, IMHO. I'm no expert but don't believe this kind of stuff is rocket science. Well, okay, technically it is rocket science but primary school rocket science.
For me the program hit the nail on the head in a lot of respects.
Number of shops, screw the operator for every penny, security manning levels, routing through the terminals to maximise "retail opportunities", customer satisfaction levels, etc.
For me the program hit the nail on the head in a lot of respects.
Number of shops, screw the operator for every penny, security manning levels, routing through the terminals to maximise "retail opportunities", customer satisfaction levels, etc.
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Come on chaps I think it was a good "dig" at BAA. Who doesn't like a bit of that banter?
I especially liked the idea regarding the BAA conspiracy to usher people to the duty free shops to spend ££££.
Whether or not one could make a bomb out of a few 100ml containers of liquid is not my area of expertise BUT it did show up Fitzpatrick/BAA management for not providing concrete answers. I did like seeing them under pressure.
If anything else it showed how utterly utterly dissappointing it is to travel through one of BAA's major airports.
I especially liked the idea regarding the BAA conspiracy to usher people to the duty free shops to spend ££££.
Whether or not one could make a bomb out of a few 100ml containers of liquid is not my area of expertise BUT it did show up Fitzpatrick/BAA management for not providing concrete answers. I did like seeing them under pressure.
If anything else it showed how utterly utterly dissappointing it is to travel through one of BAA's major airports.
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Last time I went through a major BAA airport, the M25 had taken a 90-minute chunk out of my hour's contingency so we arrived in the terminal building with two and a half hours to go. Queues at check-in (we got hauled out of the queue as our flight got ever-closer to departure and put through a priority one with no wait), more queues at security and we ended up whizzing through the entire shopping experience to get to our gate on time. We weren't late, but we missed the entire BAA money extravaganza. What a shame. The only money we gave them was for some bottles of water from the vending machine by the gate. Oh, and I discovered a container of lip balm in my coat pocket that never got declared at security. Fortunately it behaved exactly like lip balm for the entire flight.
If they want us to spend more time shopping then either fix the M25 or the terminal queues.
If they want us to spend more time shopping then either fix the M25 or the terminal queues.
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I especially liked the idea regarding the BAA conspiracy to usher people to the duty free shops to spend ££££.
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When Manchester is finished then there will be no where to go after check in apart from the shops. Funnelled through Security then hit by a wall of retail.
I feel the programme focussed on BAA too much when Manchester to make an example is as bad if not worse.
I feel the programme focussed on BAA too much when Manchester to make an example is as bad if not worse.
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I was surprised to learn that a high proportion of flights from T5 will involve loading the passengers onto buses to get them to the plane. That's what you expect at small foreign airports, not LHR. Does anyone know why?
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No - but probably for the same reason that my return from Lisbon last week sat on the ground next to T1 for 40 mins waiting for a stand...only for us to later find out that the guidance system wasn't turned on and another 10 min wait ensued before an orange table tennis bat wielding BAA employee turned up.
LHR is punching above it's weight.
.
LHR is punching above it's weight.
.
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Look at LHR on Google Earth and you'll see why. Although it still shows a lot of "construction" work, you can only fit so many stands there so when you think of how many BA flights leave from LHR you can do the maths as far as flights and stands goes.
Being bussed to a plane at Heathrow isn't really unusual, we used to enjoy watching some of the cuties walking down stairs to be bussed to the terminal after they had returned from somewhere a bit warmer, kinda made avoiding the baggage tugs a bit more enjoyable, and they were not exactly on some of the more remote stands.
Oh, find me an international airport anywhere that doesn't direct you to the *cough* cheap shopping. I even remember MSY (if anyone is heading to New Orleans in the near future, can you look for the two days I lost?) advertising their cigarettes were cheap "compared to London Heathrow". They're all at it, even Minsk 2 made sure the first thing you saw was somewhere to get perfume/hooch/smokes. Decent vodka though, that was a plus.
Being bussed to a plane at Heathrow isn't really unusual, we used to enjoy watching some of the cuties walking down stairs to be bussed to the terminal after they had returned from somewhere a bit warmer, kinda made avoiding the baggage tugs a bit more enjoyable, and they were not exactly on some of the more remote stands.
Oh, find me an international airport anywhere that doesn't direct you to the *cough* cheap shopping. I even remember MSY (if anyone is heading to New Orleans in the near future, can you look for the two days I lost?) advertising their cigarettes were cheap "compared to London Heathrow". They're all at it, even Minsk 2 made sure the first thing you saw was somewhere to get perfume/hooch/smokes. Decent vodka though, that was a plus.
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Although T5 opens next month it will not actually be complete until 2011 when the second satellite opens. People might be being bussed pending completion of the second phase of construction.
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Why didn't it blow up while they were mixing it? What made it blow up? How did they know how long it would take for it to blow up?
Durrr, let me have a stab at answering those difficult questions.
For me the program hit the nail on the head in a lot of respects.
Number of shops, screw the operator for every penny, security manning levels, routing through the terminals to maximise "retail opportunities", customer satisfaction levels, etc.
Number of shops, screw the operator for every penny, security manning levels, routing through the terminals to maximise "retail opportunities", customer satisfaction levels, etc.
come on, attacking BAA for maximizing retail revenue, cheap shot.
The things that DID hit the nail on the head were the Car parking charges and the fact that they are heavily in debt. The BAA buy out was the same as Man U's. Borrow to buy, now they are skint.
Paxing All Over The World
The phrase "sexed up" jumps irresistably to mind!
After all, being hounded in public by the establishment, and losing your job, is a fair sure way to ensure that you remain telling the truth for the rest of your life. Except that he was telling the truth all along.
But, the real culprit behind all of this is not the BAA. It is the CAA and the way that they were instructed to behave by Thatcher and their conduct in the past 20 years. BAA have only done what many other commercial organisation would have done under the same circumstances.
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Agree PaxBoy
If only BAA at Heathrow would get rid of the I am a failed engineer in disguise attitude and stop listening to all those millions of blooming consultants that ask at least £100 an hour to attend any insignificant meeting, then maybe they could get somewhere.
While the Heathrow staff are guided by idiots (consultants) and as they have obviously lost the capacity to think for themselves, is it any surprise it is by far the worst airport in the world.
If only BAA at Heathrow would get rid of the I am a failed engineer in disguise attitude and stop listening to all those millions of blooming consultants that ask at least £100 an hour to attend any insignificant meeting, then maybe they could get somewhere.
While the Heathrow staff are guided by idiots (consultants) and as they have obviously lost the capacity to think for themselves, is it any surprise it is by far the worst airport in the world.
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gijoe, its the airlines responsibilty to turn on the SEGS, so that table tennis bat wielding BAA employee, would have attended asap after what is normally a request through ATC by the crew for assistance...... There is one airline at LHR that is continually failing to provide enough Turn Round Managers to meet aircraft and BAA airfield ops are ending up having to fill in the gaps... along with the rest of their workload.... to ensure that other airlines aren't affected by the subsequent airfield congestion. On some days this has been amounting to more than 15 flights in two hours, so carefull where you point that thing soldier!
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First posting after a long time sitting and watching so treat me kindly.
I was disappointed with the programme generally because it lacked focus. I wanted an hour on airport security. There's certainly enough to speak about for an hour; shoe scanning only certain queues, safety of stuff you can buy airside and so on - all of which you can read in other threads here. How relevant was that bit about compensation to Heathrow's neighbours, for example?
While it's good to see Gilligan has survived the dodgy dossier episode I was disappointed that he didn't hound BAA more and try to get some more evidence, particularly on the queue stats. It's very boring to hear: Gilligan: 'Gatwick airlines say you only measure from near the X-ray security area'. BAA: 'They're wrong.' Well, who is right? Gilligan and the team should have found out.
On the plus side, the explosives section was thought-provoking IMHO but I'm surprised they didn't try to take it through security to see whether they would get caught.
I was disappointed with the programme generally because it lacked focus. I wanted an hour on airport security. There's certainly enough to speak about for an hour; shoe scanning only certain queues, safety of stuff you can buy airside and so on - all of which you can read in other threads here. How relevant was that bit about compensation to Heathrow's neighbours, for example?
While it's good to see Gilligan has survived the dodgy dossier episode I was disappointed that he didn't hound BAA more and try to get some more evidence, particularly on the queue stats. It's very boring to hear: Gilligan: 'Gatwick airlines say you only measure from near the X-ray security area'. BAA: 'They're wrong.' Well, who is right? Gilligan and the team should have found out.
On the plus side, the explosives section was thought-provoking IMHO but I'm surprised they didn't try to take it through security to see whether they would get caught.
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To play devils advoctae for a second I feel much of the criticism of BAA is unjustified. Much of the security issues arise from the fact that tye GOVERNMENT raised security levels overnight then stood back and watched the ensuing chaos they caused. Then blamed BAA for not being able to cope to massive changes overnight. Not to mention the number of people causing congestion at the search areas by carrying banned items despite having the restrictions rammed down their throat.??
If BAA had their way T5 would have been opened years ago but the GOVERNMENT dragged their heels through the various enquiries etc. BAA asked to build T5 years ago for very good reasons..to try and avoid the current congestion!
If you call for the break up of BAA you need to ask yourself who would run the airports. One thing is for sure there are very few companies who could do it and you would not see the levels of investment that are currently made.
BAA was a FTSE 100, blue chip company before the Ferrovial takeover. A few people and some big pension companies in the City made money out of the takeover. As an operating company the Ferrovial takeover did BAA no favours..
If BAA had their way T5 would have been opened years ago but the GOVERNMENT dragged their heels through the various enquiries etc. BAA asked to build T5 years ago for very good reasons..to try and avoid the current congestion!
If you call for the break up of BAA you need to ask yourself who would run the airports. One thing is for sure there are very few companies who could do it and you would not see the levels of investment that are currently made.
BAA was a FTSE 100, blue chip company before the Ferrovial takeover. A few people and some big pension companies in the City made money out of the takeover. As an operating company the Ferrovial takeover did BAA no favours..
