BMI
If you say BA have their good connecting feed, Star Alliance must deliver almost as much through all their presence at Heathrow.
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Because some aussie smart talker rebranded the airline BMI and proudly announced it didn't stand for anything! A real eye catcher for the customers. Then our last CEO ran the service down, losing customers for the future whilst his big chief got the last penny out before he made his exit.
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That rumour about airbus to baby is simply not true. The sale of some slots to BA is a worry as it hints at a breakup of the bmi mainline although I feel a wider deal is in the offing over the coming weeks. I'm hearing that Virgin will be taking the mainline bmi operation and joining the Star Alliance with BA getting some more slots. Who knows really except those at the very top of the relevant companies and Morgan Stanley, it's all conjecture.
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Virgin Atlantic Will Join an Alliance Soon, Says Richard Branson
Virgin Atlantic Will Join an Alliance Soon, Says Richard Branson - Forbes
Virgin Atlantic Airways, the last big trans-Atlantic carrier to remain independent of the three airline alliances that define the industry, will join one in the near future, Virgin founder Richard Branson tells Forbes. “There is likely to be an announcement of an alliance coming very soon,” he says.
Virgin has stayed out of the alliance system until now, preferring to write bilateral codesharing agreements with other airlines. Branson declined to say which alliance Virgin would join, but it is unlikely to be OneWorld, the group that includes Virgin arch-competitor British Airways. That leaves Star Alliance, anchored by United Continental Holdings and Lufthansa, or SkyTeam, anchored by Delta Air Lines and Air France-KLM, as possibilities. Of those two, Virgin Atlantic’s operations are more closely aligned with Star Alliance: the airline is 49% owned by Star Alliance carrier Singapore Airlines, has expressed interest in buying BMI from Lufthansa, and includes nine Star Alliance members among its partners.
In late 2010, Virgin Atlantic hired Deutsche Bank to advise it on merger possibilities. Sky News reported that Delta had hired Goldman Sachs to help it woo Virgin, but that attempt, along with efforts by some other airlines, appears to have fizzled. Yesterday Virgin Atlantic confirmed that it was interested in merging with BMI, another airline with a hub at Heathrow.
A Virgin Atlantic spokeswoman declined to comment on the airline’s alliance talks, writing in a statement that “Deutsche Bank is looking at all our options, which includes the world of alliances. We are one of the very last independent carriers with an unrivaled position in the industry which is why we are carrying out this strategic review.”
Virgin Atlantic was one of four airlines allowed to fly between London’s Heathrow airport and the United States until the EU-US Open Skies agreement opened those routes to competition in 2008. Its market position has been further challenged by a new round of consolidation in the airline industry–particularly a 2010 agreement between American Airlines, British Airways and Iberia that coordinates those carriers’ trans-Atlantic service. Membership in an alliance could feed traffic into Virgin’s network and give it a boost with business travelers who try to keep their frequent-flier earnings consolidated within an alliance to enjoy perks like free upgrades to first class and access to departure lounges.
Virgin has stayed out of the alliance system until now, preferring to write bilateral codesharing agreements with other airlines. Branson declined to say which alliance Virgin would join, but it is unlikely to be OneWorld, the group that includes Virgin arch-competitor British Airways. That leaves Star Alliance, anchored by United Continental Holdings and Lufthansa, or SkyTeam, anchored by Delta Air Lines and Air France-KLM, as possibilities. Of those two, Virgin Atlantic’s operations are more closely aligned with Star Alliance: the airline is 49% owned by Star Alliance carrier Singapore Airlines, has expressed interest in buying BMI from Lufthansa, and includes nine Star Alliance members among its partners.
In late 2010, Virgin Atlantic hired Deutsche Bank to advise it on merger possibilities. Sky News reported that Delta had hired Goldman Sachs to help it woo Virgin, but that attempt, along with efforts by some other airlines, appears to have fizzled. Yesterday Virgin Atlantic confirmed that it was interested in merging with BMI, another airline with a hub at Heathrow.
A Virgin Atlantic spokeswoman declined to comment on the airline’s alliance talks, writing in a statement that “Deutsche Bank is looking at all our options, which includes the world of alliances. We are one of the very last independent carriers with an unrivaled position in the industry which is why we are carrying out this strategic review.”
Virgin Atlantic was one of four airlines allowed to fly between London’s Heathrow airport and the United States until the EU-US Open Skies agreement opened those routes to competition in 2008. Its market position has been further challenged by a new round of consolidation in the airline industry–particularly a 2010 agreement between American Airlines, British Airways and Iberia that coordinates those carriers’ trans-Atlantic service. Membership in an alliance could feed traffic into Virgin’s network and give it a boost with business travelers who try to keep their frequent-flier earnings consolidated within an alliance to enjoy perks like free upgrades to first class and access to departure lounges.
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embraerFObmi - There will be no airbus' freed up due to the slot sale. The solds in question are currently leased to other airlines therefore the sale will not affect bmi's timetable or aircraft utilisation.
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bmi held 11% of all LHR slots didn't they? Does anyone know what that figure has dropped to in light of today's sale?
Also, they have several slot pairs out on lease to other carriers don't they? Are they part of the 11% or not included?
Am I right in thinking 6 slot pairs going = 3 less routes?
Also, they have several slot pairs out on lease to other carriers don't they? Are they part of the 11% or not included?
Am I right in thinking 6 slot pairs going = 3 less routes?
Chieftan o'the Pudden Race
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Have heard from a couple of independent sources that Mainline is being made ready for a sale.
Front runner is Singapore/VS, from what I have heard. That at least would give a certain level of security for some staff.
Front runner is Singapore/VS, from what I have heard. That at least would give a certain level of security for some staff.
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Front runner is Singapore/VS, from what I have heard. That at least would give a certain level of security for some staff.
I've been wrong before, of course... but
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Never say never, but I would be amazed if VS buy BD mainline.
SQ have wanted out of VS for years so they are not going to contribute any capital.
Virgin Group rarely acquire businesses/merge by offering cash which is what LH will want to dispose of BD. Virgin contribute assets in return for shares or licence their brand. And, most importantly, I doubt Virgin has the financial muscle to absorb the losses and turn BD around.
An IAG deal is still a possibility. The 6 slot pair deal has probably been negotiated for months before the recent announcement by LH that BD could be sold.
SQ have wanted out of VS for years so they are not going to contribute any capital.
Virgin Group rarely acquire businesses/merge by offering cash which is what LH will want to dispose of BD. Virgin contribute assets in return for shares or licence their brand. And, most importantly, I doubt Virgin has the financial muscle to absorb the losses and turn BD around.
An IAG deal is still a possibility. The 6 slot pair deal has probably been negotiated for months before the recent announcement by LH that BD could be sold.
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embraerFObmi - There will be no airbus' freed up due to the slot sale. The solds in question are currently leased to other airlines therefore the sale will not affect bmi's timetable or aircraft utilisation.
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The slot pairs will bring in some useful money for assists that we unlikely to have been used in the future, the real prize to be had here is VS & star, I would not rule out a partial sale, how the numbers might add up I have now idea, but I suspect some equity swap involving SQ/VS/LH might come into play, but let's be clear here the is nothing wrong at all with the bmi product or it's employee's in many ways it's far superior to the BA product, the problem is the bmi brand is confused by the various product offering of regional, baby and mainline it's self and is probably beyond redemption.
Virgin brand is much stronger, but how it would play in the iffy Arab countries that bmi fly to is another question!!!
As for baby who knows? But I doubt it will be shut down, more likely a trade sale,Monarch SMB?
Virgin brand is much stronger, but how it would play in the iffy Arab countries that bmi fly to is another question!!!
As for baby who knows? But I doubt it will be shut down, more likely a trade sale,Monarch SMB?
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bmi sale
I am new to this forum, and its been intresting to read what everyone has to say about what LH wonts to do with the BMI group.
I personnally belive that the slots we have just sold to BA are the ex MXP route and like i read earlier it was probably done a few months ago when LH decided to pull off the route and the timing is just coincedential.
I have looked at the new winter timetable through the bmi website and it looks like they dont have any silly slot savers at the moment ie manchester 4 a day, dublin 4 a day all at good times.
If i could see into a crystal ball i would see mainline getting into the VS group ie into Virgin Atlantic or as a seperate name like Virgin UK.
Regional will go to Flybe.
Baby, umm this could be intresting, reading other peoples thoughts it could go a number of ways, as it has a strong loyal passengers it could make a go of itself of if an airline went for it i would go for monarch as were baby fly from there are not a lot of overlapping MON services.
Thanks for reading. BMIORVS
I personnally belive that the slots we have just sold to BA are the ex MXP route and like i read earlier it was probably done a few months ago when LH decided to pull off the route and the timing is just coincedential.
I have looked at the new winter timetable through the bmi website and it looks like they dont have any silly slot savers at the moment ie manchester 4 a day, dublin 4 a day all at good times.
If i could see into a crystal ball i would see mainline getting into the VS group ie into Virgin Atlantic or as a seperate name like Virgin UK.
Regional will go to Flybe.
Baby, umm this could be intresting, reading other peoples thoughts it could go a number of ways, as it has a strong loyal passengers it could make a go of itself of if an airline went for it i would go for monarch as were baby fly from there are not a lot of overlapping MON services.
Thanks for reading. BMIORVS
Chieftan o'the Pudden Race
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As for baby who knows? But I doubt it will be shut down, more likely a trade sale,Monarch SMB?
I realise you work in a senior role at WW, but you are going to have to make a pitch for Baby to convince me that it is a realistic proposal for sale.
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Flypuppy
Bmibaby is probably the strongest loco brand across a huge swath of central England, it is the brand that has value.
Customers don't buy into property or aircraft, they buy/ trust the brand and what they feel it stands for, to start from scratch to build this cost millions, now if your Jet2 or Easy or FR it's worthless because you would bin it, but for others wanting to move into to the Loco market or the UK market then there is value for sure. I have seen nothing that suggests it's anything but business as normal for baby, that's not to say that can't change but there is a positive buzz about the place, loads are good yields are good, the feeling is that one way or another we will be around for a few years yet.
The ball is in play now and the next few weeks will be interesting to say the least, but I think all agree it's time to move on what ever the outcome this is no way for our loyal staff to live
Customers don't buy into property or aircraft, they buy/ trust the brand and what they feel it stands for, to start from scratch to build this cost millions, now if your Jet2 or Easy or FR it's worthless because you would bin it, but for others wanting to move into to the Loco market or the UK market then there is value for sure. I have seen nothing that suggests it's anything but business as normal for baby, that's not to say that can't change but there is a positive buzz about the place, loads are good yields are good, the feeling is that one way or another we will be around for a few years yet.
The ball is in play now and the next few weeks will be interesting to say the least, but I think all agree it's time to move on what ever the outcome this is no way for our loyal staff to live
Mach 3
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crewed by mainline pilots as retraining baby pilots is too expensive given both company's financial position.
Strikes me there is a deal to be done somewhere here....
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Bmibaby is probably the strongest loco brand across a huge swath of central England, it is the brand that has value.
I'm not saying that WW has never had this, just that they have a history of launching in key locations only to retreat a few years later. They did this at MAN, they did this at CWL, they did this against BE at BHX and now they've done the same at BHD. It could be suggested that they are unable to build a financially viable route structure without airport incentives and this is the reason for their continual moves.....who knows?
If the brand were as strong as you believe then they never would have left the locations they did, and regrettably I don't see BHD being any different....unfortunately for Baby wherever they now go, they will find someone else who has a stonger brand than they do who will be better able to compete against them. Why they ever left MME is beyond me - they had that all to themselves and thier only competitor was Eastern.
With the exception of the hard working staff and crews throughout BMI, and the key slots for mainline at LHR...I fail to see any other attractions in either Baby or Regional.
Last edited by JobsaGoodun; 24th Sep 2011 at 09:19.
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SR71
From a pure financial point of view it would be less expensive to put a trained Airbus pilot in the seat rather than re train a 737 driver, how ever putting a mainline pilot on mainline T&C's would defeat the objective. One story doing the rounds is baby getting additional aircraft for a new base at STN with all current bmi domestic routes moving to STN and these would be 319's ex bmi drivers would be offered these but on baby T&C's.
Whilst not wishing to get into a bun fight one has to remember that the problem here is not baby or regional, but operations from LHR.
What won't be happening is regional to Flybe or baby to Jet2, this maybe a sale or partial sale, but be under no illusion it's not a fire sale. In the mean time it's business as normal, please speculate all you like, but before you press submit reply give a thought for the many people in the bmi group who are doing a fantastic job with this very dark cloud over their future at this time
Cheers
Inkjet
Whilst not wishing to get into a bun fight one has to remember that the problem here is not baby or regional, but operations from LHR.
What won't be happening is regional to Flybe or baby to Jet2, this maybe a sale or partial sale, but be under no illusion it's not a fire sale. In the mean time it's business as normal, please speculate all you like, but before you press submit reply give a thought for the many people in the bmi group who are doing a fantastic job with this very dark cloud over their future at this time
Cheers
Inkjet