BMI
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: London
Posts: 523
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Copy of my post elsewhere
I think what we are seeing from BMIthansa now is a consolidation of recourses rather than just simple profit
The Man-Ord is profitable to them (Just clearly not enough now), however because they only have three 332s in the fleet and that the company is now effectively BMED2 under LH ownership the focus is away from Trans Atlantic (in current economical environment may be a good thing too!) and into Miid East.
So they ditch the leases on unsuitable below par cabin Astraeus 752s (Saving unnecessary charges to their bottom line)
Close an out station (More savings) Move the remaining 332s down to LHR and fit out to same spec internally all three aircraft (Bit of cost between Jan-April) then allow full rotation and fleet flexibility.
Shuffle Mid East timetable offer capcity boost and better in flight product.
Aim to garner better yields with increase in premium cable size over current route(s)
served and therefore profit potential with actually reduced recourses (fleet size)
Main fly in the ointment for BMI could well be BA returning to the lucrative Saudi market sometime after spring.
For Manchester looking hopefully AA will now restore daily to ORD from Spring and Singapore return to daily in similar time frame and period of stability (stagnation for now) entered into for few seasons.
This is certainly blow to Manchester and all staff and customers alike however its NOT the same as another carrier who recently TRANSFERED a flight down south.
I now wish all at BMI Manchester the very best in the future wherever you find yourself.
I think what we are seeing from BMIthansa now is a consolidation of recourses rather than just simple profit
The Man-Ord is profitable to them (Just clearly not enough now), however because they only have three 332s in the fleet and that the company is now effectively BMED2 under LH ownership the focus is away from Trans Atlantic (in current economical environment may be a good thing too!) and into Miid East.
So they ditch the leases on unsuitable below par cabin Astraeus 752s (Saving unnecessary charges to their bottom line)
Close an out station (More savings) Move the remaining 332s down to LHR and fit out to same spec internally all three aircraft (Bit of cost between Jan-April) then allow full rotation and fleet flexibility.
Shuffle Mid East timetable offer capcity boost and better in flight product.
Aim to garner better yields with increase in premium cable size over current route(s)
served and therefore profit potential with actually reduced recourses (fleet size)
Main fly in the ointment for BMI could well be BA returning to the lucrative Saudi market sometime after spring.
For Manchester looking hopefully AA will now restore daily to ORD from Spring and Singapore return to daily in similar time frame and period of stability (stagnation for now) entered into for few seasons.
This is certainly blow to Manchester and all staff and customers alike however its NOT the same as another carrier who recently TRANSFERED a flight down south.
I now wish all at BMI Manchester the very best in the future wherever you find yourself.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Middlesesx
Posts: 2,075
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Surely that is exactly what it is, BA were not making enough money on the JFK route, the aircraft always had problems and there was a huge crew cost to Hotac them 365 days. It is such a shame that some contributers feel a bitterness about moves in the main caused by the recession. The final issue for any company is to be profitable and stay in business.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London
Age: 37
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
further to my earlier post, here are the business class take ups for tomorrow on the US routes (AA aplies to fri as no service tomorrow, and all could still increase through late bookings)
AA55 26/30 seats used (86% uptake)
DL155 10/18 seats used (55% uptake)
DL65 35/36 seats used (97% uptake)
CO21 14/16 seats used (87.5% uptake)
CO101 14/16 seats used (87.5% uptake)
US735 26/30 seats taken (86% uptake)
Total business class seats on said carriers: 146
Total usage: 125 seats
85.6% uptake of business class seats MAN-USA
So, if MAN has no business potential, who, may I ask, are using up all these seats? Its amazing how much you can spin something if you get the results you want, just like BA lied about the BA1502/3 profitability
AA55 26/30 seats used (86% uptake)
DL155 10/18 seats used (55% uptake)
DL65 35/36 seats used (97% uptake)
CO21 14/16 seats used (87.5% uptake)
CO101 14/16 seats used (87.5% uptake)
US735 26/30 seats taken (86% uptake)
Total business class seats on said carriers: 146
Total usage: 125 seats
85.6% uptake of business class seats MAN-USA
So, if MAN has no business potential, who, may I ask, are using up all these seats? Its amazing how much you can spin something if you get the results you want, just like BA lied about the BA1502/3 profitability
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
....yes, but it depends how much those tickets have been sold for. As someone else has pointed out, load factor means absolutely nothing unless the yield is sufficient.
That is the crux of the statement from NT. Surely you understand that?
That is the crux of the statement from NT. Surely you understand that?
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Manchester, UK
Age: 51
Posts: 760
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good exercise Virgin cc, and conclusive proof high yeilding seats are being filled ex MAN. Poppycock excuses from BA / BMI and all the so called experts on here, who co-incidentally are mostly southerns !! The North / South divide gets wider still 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London
Age: 37
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
....yes, but it depends how much those tickets have been sold for
Well, on most airlines, how does over £1500 sound. They are selling for just as much as LHR seats.
Granted DL155, CO21, CO101 are B757's, so slightly different level of service, but US735, DL65 and AA55 are the same levels of service provided to LHR pax as they are using the same a/c (A330/B767-300)
At the end of the day, bmi wanted the A330's at heathrow to make life 'easier' for themselfs (maintence and crew wise), but hid behind the profitability sheild.
The way you lot go on, you make it sound like absalutly no-one in the manchester area want to pay for a business class seat. I have proven to you that they do and its all the profit margin talks are spin.
Next . . . . .
Well, on most airlines, how does over £1500 sound. They are selling for just as much as LHR seats.
Granted DL155, CO21, CO101 are B757's, so slightly different level of service, but US735, DL65 and AA55 are the same levels of service provided to LHR pax as they are using the same a/c (A330/B767-300)
At the end of the day, bmi wanted the A330's at heathrow to make life 'easier' for themselfs (maintence and crew wise), but hid behind the profitability sheild.
The way you lot go on, you make it sound like absalutly no-one in the manchester area want to pay for a business class seat. I have proven to you that they do and its all the profit margin talks are spin.
Next . . . . .
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
Age: 42
Posts: 6,168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's not all spin and no one sheds jobs lightly. Bottom line is that they believe honestly in my view that those two A330s will make more money at Heathrow. It's worth remembering that there are a Hell of a lot of BMI and ex BMED staff at Heathrow whose jobs need to be looked out for as well. Any move to prop up mid term revenues has to be sound as we head into a recession that will last 18-24 months. It's **** when things like this happen, but it's not unexpected, it's not personal, and MAN has a good long haul network, the best outside London by a country mile to take up any slack.
No one wants perspective today, but I remember being prettyamazed that BMI ended up with three A330s and no where to fly them from after LHR access went....a bit wrong (!) Even seeing G-WWBD brand new and dumped for months at a time near Terminal 2. BMED has brought new opportunities and has been something of a smart move that few saw coming.
Are we really saying that the evil men in the boardroom were sitting on a gold mine and decided they didn't want Manchester's money? They had enough of profits and high yield and simply buggered off? When BA left, BMI didn't take up the slack. I doubt Virgin will do much now.
Good luck to all.
No one wants perspective today, but I remember being prettyamazed that BMI ended up with three A330s and no where to fly them from after LHR access went....a bit wrong (!) Even seeing G-WWBD brand new and dumped for months at a time near Terminal 2. BMED has brought new opportunities and has been something of a smart move that few saw coming.
Are we really saying that the evil men in the boardroom were sitting on a gold mine and decided they didn't want Manchester's money? They had enough of profits and high yield and simply buggered off? When BA left, BMI didn't take up the slack. I doubt Virgin will do much now.
Good luck to all.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: London
Posts: 523
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Saudi 123 no its not the SAME this BMI move has a solid economical case I can see and understand.
That other move should have happened more than a year ago and people would have been LESS bitter !
Not said airline really could have helped a company THEY have a significant holding in after all and even code share with on a number of destinations from the regions similar to say Eurowings in Germany or Regional in France so maintaining a presence but no not their way!
Beyond selling their admittedly leading Premium product their marketing and publicity department is p**s poor and dishonest !
That other move should have happened more than a year ago and people would have been LESS bitter !
Not said airline really could have helped a company THEY have a significant holding in after all and even code share with on a number of destinations from the regions similar to say Eurowings in Germany or Regional in France so maintaining a presence but no not their way!
Beyond selling their admittedly leading Premium product their marketing and publicity department is p**s poor and dishonest !
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: BOH - UK
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
egcc & virgin wanabee - show some respect for the people who have something to genuinely worry about - redundancy - get a sense of perspective and take your armchair CEO claptrap to airliners.net or somewhere else more appropriate. At bmi, Bishop is from Manchester, Kenworthy from Yorkshire and Turner went to Sheffield Uni and made his name working in Leeds - the whole idea that some sort of social "north vs south" ego trip is a driving force behind these decisions is an insult to these people involved in trying to keep airlines solvent and profitable in the most difficult of circumstances. As for what is says about your grasp of the airline business, I think we need say no more.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: manchester
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
who gives a **** about the where's and why fores it's done now, something they have wanted to do for a long time, taking the 330's out of man, and about to deploy them in LHR, they've know about this for a very long time, using the LH buy out is an excuse, that doesn't actually happen till 12th jan 2009. i just think it's cronic that they've done it 6 weeks before christmas, that is a complete piss take on our part.
The man crew have busted a gut for 7+ years to make these routes work and this is how we are repaid. feel sorry for the crews downroute at this moment in time who will be being told that there's no jobs for them soon, what's it going to be like for them flying home tonight, not a happy bunch i bet
The man crew have busted a gut for 7+ years to make these routes work and this is how we are repaid. feel sorry for the crews downroute at this moment in time who will be being told that there's no jobs for them soon, what's it going to be like for them flying home tonight, not a happy bunch i bet
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London
Age: 37
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
egcc & virgin wanabee - show some respect for the people who have something to genuinely worry about - redundancy - get a sense of perspective and take your armchair CEO claptrap to airliners.net or somewhere else more appropriate.
I am showing some respect thanks very much loco.
am I saying the MAN base deserved it? NO
am I saying the decision is justified? NO
am I laughing at the news? NO
I am simply trying to come to terms with the decision and exactly what the managers are really basing it on.
I am showing some respect thanks very much loco.
am I saying the MAN base deserved it? NO
am I saying the decision is justified? NO
am I laughing at the news? NO
I am simply trying to come to terms with the decision and exactly what the managers are really basing it on.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London
Age: 37
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sorry
Just before this turns into a flamefest, I would like to say to those involved in the redundencies that I truly am sorry for the situation you are now in. With the economic climate I appriciate this is going to be hard
However
Goingloco, by the fact I have provided facts behind my posts, I would assume that I do have some knowlege of what I am talking about. I am not claiming, ar endevouring to achive Armchair CEO status.
This is a discussion forum and I have the right to post whatever information I deem relevent to the topic at hand, and in this case I am reporting the basis of bmi's pullout.
No words on here are going to make it better for anyone involved, and at least im not pretending I am trying to remedy the situation with clever anecdotes.
Thank you
However
Goingloco, by the fact I have provided facts behind my posts, I would assume that I do have some knowlege of what I am talking about. I am not claiming, ar endevouring to achive Armchair CEO status.
This is a discussion forum and I have the right to post whatever information I deem relevent to the topic at hand, and in this case I am reporting the basis of bmi's pullout.
No words on here are going to make it better for anyone involved, and at least im not pretending I am trying to remedy the situation with clever anecdotes.
Thank you
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: England
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Even though it was expected it's a very sad day. Thoughts go out to those who will lose their jobs, especially at this time of year and in the current environment.
I have had some fabulously enjoyable flights with the wonderful longhaul crew over the last few years. Sadly it looks like Saturday's BD705 may be the last one.
virgin_cc_wannabe, please do everyone a favour, especially yourself, and give it a rest. You're making yourself look silly.
I have had some fabulously enjoyable flights with the wonderful longhaul crew over the last few years. Sadly it looks like Saturday's BD705 may be the last one.
virgin_cc_wannabe, please do everyone a favour, especially yourself, and give it a rest. You're making yourself look silly.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London
Age: 37
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
half the story?
Ok so all the booking engines on the respective airlines websites are now lying are they?
take a look yourself, they are no secret.
Go into the seat maps and take a look at the seat uptake. Then use your brains and work out the basic maths.
Ill give it a rest today as people on here have got more pressing concerns, but im by no means admitting im in the wrong.
manflyer & topslide, I suggest you take a look and see for yourself before condemming others.
Ok so all the booking engines on the respective airlines websites are now lying are they?
take a look yourself, they are no secret.
Go into the seat maps and take a look at the seat uptake. Then use your brains and work out the basic maths.
Ill give it a rest today as people on here have got more pressing concerns, but im by no means admitting im in the wrong.
manflyer & topslide, I suggest you take a look and see for yourself before condemming others.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
Age: 42
Posts: 6,168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok so all the booking engines on the respective airlines websites are now lying are they?
A yield analysis, or proper profit and loss statement needs a Hell of a lot more data than seats available x "prices I see today on a dummy booking".
virgin_cc_wannabe you are taking it personally, this is a business decision to protect everyone's jobs in the long run. Hurts like Hell but that is business, I know, I've been burned once or twice before.
