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Old 5th Aug 2011, 15:33
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RE the DUB night stop

I think that the reasons for the night stop being back is less to do with point to point traffic ie DUB-LHR and more to do with getting onwards conecting passengers on Star Alliance flights through LHR. The current timings of BMI from DUB preclude a lot of onwards business in the mornings. I would guess that is why the point to point fares are higher than EI on the route asd BMI look on the point to point as "petty cash" just to fill up the last few seats. I could be wrong but there may be madness in there method or is it method in there madness??

Oh on another note have you tried the new Victoria Sandwich Cake OMG yummy or what!!!!!!!
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 16:08
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The GLA service had exactly that philosophy, with the BD14 LHR-GLA late evening being codeshared by frankly everyone and their granny! Still couldn't make money, also BA's LHR-BFS was always pretty full but the revenue went to long haul due to "too many" connecting, so the route was a loss maker !

Internal accounting can be a nightmare, but I wonder if bmi feeding STAR at LHR is really worth the candle. Indeed strategy has moved to more point to point flying on behalf of STAR partners.
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 18:41
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I know that BMI did try and get CO pax from LHR thru DUB to do the CBP but with the winter timings i doubt that will be a runner
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Old 6th Aug 2011, 16:56
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I understand that bmi is now offering paid for seat selection and lounge access through upselling on its website.
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Old 7th Aug 2011, 11:52
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Was at Gatwick yesterday afternoon - why was there a BMI A319 and later a 145?
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Old 7th Aug 2011, 17:21
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G-DBCG A319 came in from LHR and operated charters to PMI and IBZ, and then headed to ABZ. Don't have any info on the ERJ
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Old 8th Aug 2011, 14:21
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ERJ in LGW

ERJ 145 was in LGW operating a football charter I think. The a/c positioned to EDI later that evening.
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Old 8th Aug 2011, 17:13
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bmi actually had a charter program over the winter period so was common to see sometimes a couple of Airbuses on the deck over the weekend....
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Old 9th Aug 2011, 09:15
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bmi regional to take over LHR - Stavanger & Bergen. A319 will only operate Bergan on Day4/5 pending on operational week.
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Old 15th Aug 2011, 20:43
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I have it on good authority that Lufthansa have been in discussion with Eastern about selling bmi Regional. Given Richard Lakes recent fun at Southwest, would this be good news for anyone?
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Old 15th Aug 2011, 20:46
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Lufty wouldn't have to care if they got their wonga. But regional seems to be one of the more profitable arms and also servicing the likes of Brussels Airlines. Not doubting your sources but it would seem unlikely, Eastern don't have the footing to handle something like BMI Regional, all the fun Richard is having would to away. Would run in to the ground and naturally transfer ac to Eastern branding who few know of.
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Old 15th Aug 2011, 20:56
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My source is pretty reliable. I am told that Eastern have submitted a bid and it is being considered by Lufthansa. Story is that Lufthansa are looking for quick injections of cash to offset the massive losses of the bmi group. I dont think they will be able to keep the regional name or branding. Eastern already have EMB-145s don't they?
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Old 15th Aug 2011, 21:10
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Rick

What utter tosh

The thought that regional could generate cash from Eastern "needed" by LH is rubbish.

LH is one of the most cash rich companies in Europe, Regional is coppers either way
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Old 15th Aug 2011, 21:19
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Despite the fact that Bmi is owned by Lufthansa group, would LH not consider looking to strike a deal with BA to brand bmi BA as a franchise? At the same time work on cutting costs.

The benefits to bmi/LH are greater level of interlining traffic at LHR, less reliance on point to point traffic, improved fortunes at the airline, potentially remove challenges of duplication of routes,

Would give BA broader level of markets to feed into, bmi feed into BAs network. The down side for LH is that they would be assisting a large competitor to some extent. But all the while increasing the value of bmi and it's network. Wouldnt be in the interest of Star Alliance but in it's current guise bmi wont have long term position in any alliance if things keep going as they are now.

EI-BUD
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Old 15th Aug 2011, 21:59
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EI-BUD
Never happen.

Inkjet,
stranger things have happened. Never say never, or tosh for that matter.
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Old 15th Aug 2011, 22:25
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BA franchising won't happen. Aside from competitive issues, BA seems to have gone off the franchising concept in the UK. BA would not want to cede control to a franchise partner.

I would not rule out a deal with BA/IAG to dispose of slots if LH decide to downsize BD, which is a more plausible scenario.
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Old 16th Aug 2011, 06:19
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Flypuppy

I agree, never say never, but given that regional is the only bit that profitable it's hardly a priority?

Of course some of this revenue comes from the Airbus contract, which I think was previously done by Eastern? Then there is add hoc charter work for the foot ball clubs, but by far the biggest chunk is for bmi followed by SN Brussels.

A buyer would need a long term contract in place with bmi & SN to cover the risk,LH has moved away from regional 50 seated jets and very few companies in Europe use them, they are seat wise a waste of a slot at LHR, but they loose less money than an Airbus flying empty, i have been on some domestics with less than 10 passengers on a 320 !

I can't see MAN lasting beyond the Winter the train is quicker door to door for central London, that leaves EDI ABZ BHD DUB all of which have the ERJ at off peak times
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Old 16th Aug 2011, 08:58
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Originally Posted by LD12986
I would not rule out a deal with BA/IAG to dispose of slots if LH decide to downsize BD
I personally did not think that an airline actually owned slots at LHR. Yes they have rights over the slots, if they have been appointed them but actually they merely just safekeep them. For example, if an airline doesn't use their allocated slots effectively and cancel flights regularly, they can be withdrawn by the airport authority and returned to the slot pool.

An airline can lease the slots or can sell them to a partner airline (on the basis that they will continue to operate the service) but effectively the slot remains with the appointed original carrier.

So I don't see how LH vicariously through bmi, can dispose of slots directly to BA. They would have to hand them back to the slot pool and BA would hope that there were no potential rival bidders for the released slots. Not only that, there would be no guarantee of achieving the value that the original holder may believe are attached to the returned slots.

All the above comes from bits and pieces that I have read or heard from wiser people than I. So if anyone can confirm or deny the above, with further substantiating facts, I'd be interested to hear them.

For my tuppence, I think that it's up to BA/IAG to make a sensible offer to LH, an offer that LH can't refuse, in order to guarantee the acquistion of the slots. Even then they may have to return a couple of the slots to the slot pool in order to appease other LHR carriers.
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Old 16th Aug 2011, 09:16
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1033

I think you partly correct in that there is a use it or lose it rule on slot, this was the cause of the Ghost flights uproar a few years back, indeed British Midland at one time had a King Air flying into LHR from EMA for just that reason.

On the other hand slots whilst not technically owned by the airline have been classed as assets on their books, much of bmi value was derived this way.

I think IAG (BA/IB) must be getting very close to the point at which the competition authority would start to have a look and wholesale purchase of bmi slots might trigger that.

Slot sales if they happen will most likely be to other LH companies, probably SWISS who seem to be doing very well at minute or other STAR partners

I assume that bmi have some profitable routes out LHR? I guess in the main mid haul? most seem to think its short haul where the problems are, how many slot pairs are given over to ABZ MAN EDI BHD DUB? do they still fly to BRU/AMS?
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Old 16th Aug 2011, 16:57
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bmi slots and routes

bmi no longer flies to Bru or Ams - along with Paris it gave up these short European routes some time ago, partly I recall due to the Channel Tunnel and partly to use the slots for more profitable routes. As I have reported before, it also gave up Fra in favour of Lufthansa and, I think I recall, also gave up some Scandanavian routes to SAS - all part of the Star arrangements.

Buying, selling, temporarily renting out or leasing in LHR slots is common. I recall Virgin, bmi, I think some of the US airlines and Aer Lingus have all had a go at it at one time or another. For example, when Virgin started to serve India, it did so with slots "borrowed " but unused by Air India. Luxair also sold its LHR slots some years ago when it moved to London City and to raise cash. An airline leaving LHR in favour of LGW or Stansted is often a sign that it needed the cash.

Mergers and partnerships can lead the "authorities" to insist that slots be surrendered in the interests of competition - thats why the first AA/BA partnership proposal fell - the authorities demands to give up slots were considered excessive by the 2 airlines.

In these circs the authorities then reallocated based, I think, on underserved routes, what airlines have "bid for" and so on.
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