The Lufthansa / BMI Thing (merged)

[HZ123]

There are always slots for sale but not the desired morning ones. If there is going to be a noticeable reduction in airline services from LHR this winter then expect to see some new services on the block maybe. For once the slots value may well fall as some airlines struggle to utilise theirs fully and more importantly profitably.

[Professor Fog]

BA has actually ear marked the money for the purchase and will not let it slide........

[Midland Alpha9]

Nice one Flaps that would explain why Nigel (cabin girls best friend) hasn't bothered to look for anymore 330's. Duck here comes another flying pig.
Best we brush up on the German

[Dan D'air]

63 years after WW2 .....


.....They started it

They certainly did. They invaded Poland.

[BIGBAD]

heard a rumour that the bishop of frog hall has sold out to the german's ?? can this be true ??

[ETOPS]

Err............. Where have you been

Check any of the multiple threads here about this or do a Google News search................

[wobble2plank]

Lufty looking to sell BMI to BA?

An interesting 'rumour' article run in the Observer business section over the weekend.

How much is journalistic speculation will always be up for question, never the less it makes for an interesting proposition if only for the Monopolies and Mergers people!

Rumours abound that when, and if, BA and Iberia agree a merger, Lufthansa is ready to make it a three-way alliance - but only if the Germans are in charge. For his part, BA boss Willie Walsh, pictured, has made it clear that the quid pro quo of any such tie-up would be for the Germans to sell him their stake in BMI, to enable the British company to cement its position at Heathrow. Oh, and - no surprise here - the British say they want to be in charge; so whether a deal can be done is very much up in the air.

Discuss!

[Kerosene Kraut]

Would BA ever get the antitrust permit to buy BMI's slots at Heathrow? Never ever.
BA and IB? Maybe
IB and LH? Maybe
BA and LH? Maybe

[AngryBaby]

Lets hope not eh. God knows what will be in store for regional and baby if that happens.

[wobble2plank]

Don't forget though that Lufty have in excess of 80% of the slots at Frankfurt and AirFrance/KLM enjoy a similar position at both CDG and AMS.

I would be fairly certain that the BA lawyers would be quick to quote those statistics whilst adding that a percentage of slots would be sold to appease the Monopolies commission. Obviously those slots to be sold would be duplicate timings with the newly formed BA/Iberia/LH alliance and hence would not be needed.

Gives a few things to think about!

[cheesycol]

If BA could get the approval for holding that number of slots a LHR, it could be the catalyst for a large and BA led change in the UK. I'd imagine it would give BA the excuse to all but relieve itself of LGW ops, retaining maybe some key European business routes and the 777 Caribbean services. I'd imagine that Baby would be wound up along the way. BA may also want to capitalise on it's Flybe stake and offer them Regional and their current LGW shuttle operation.

If that were to be the case, then I'd suggest UK aviation will be dominated by BA & easyJet, is that a good thing?

[Cyclone733]

If that were to be the case, then I'd suggest UK aviation will be dominated by BA & easyJet, is that a good thing?

Well if as you suggest, BA were to throw LGW to flybe. Then it would be BA and a company part owned by BA (flybe) dominating UK aviation. I seem to remember reading somewhere that flybe are now the largest regional carrier in Europe. I'd imagine that'd appeal to Mr Walsh

[Torquelink]

. . . . or, Virgin buy SAS's stake in bmi, funded by Lufty investment in Virgin: partly from Sir RB's holding and partly from SIA's holding (who want out anyway). Virgin and bmi then merge with the whole joining Star - pooling Virgin's, bmi's and some Luftly slots at LHR gving major presence for Star effectively controlled by Lufty and SIA with no competition issues?

[The SSK]

I think you are being somewhat parochial here, seeing it just from the view of the LHR slot pool and the UK regulator. The European market is polarising at an amazing pace, with Air France + KLM + Alitalia in one corner, Lufthansa + Swiss + Austrian + Brussels Airlines + BMI ( +SAS, LOT, Virgin…) in another.

If BA is going to be a counterweight to these two it needs mass from somewhere – and who knows, ‘if you can’t beat them, join them’ might just be an option.

[globetrotter79]

Presumably if BA were to take BMI, with BMI regional perhaps merged into flyBe together with the LGW-UK domestic shuttles, I would guess that MMC would want to see BA divest itself of its shareholding in flyBe.

Bearing in mind what size and shape flyBe would then have in the London market...
...if you consider the London market as a whole, surely a position of a strengthened BA built around a consolidated LHR hub, plus a strengthened regional flyBe operation (also with a London hub at LGW) in addition to the strength of easyJet in the London market must be sufficient to pacify the competition authorities.
Forgive me if wrong, but I can't think of any other EU state where three similar such significantly strong and independent competing airlines arranged around the key city exist.

Granted, it would be necessary to ensure that new entrants (once economy recovers) are not blocked from entering markets as a result of the size of the incumbents, in addition to which I am fully and painfully aware of the likely impact upon jobs of such consolidation; nevertheless from an overall strength and security point of view (and bearing in mind the significant airline consolidation elsewhere in Europe) might this perhaps not be the worst thing for the aviation industry in the UK?

[Little Blue]

What a complete non-story.
Somebody, somewhere, was paid good money to write this up !
I'm surely in the wrong job!!

[Flightrider]

BA and Lufthansa could just agree a deal for BA and bmi to swap slots. BA would get all of the Heathrow slots, bmi would simply move to Gatwick with a load of cash presumably equivalent to the price which Lufthansa is paying for bmi to start with. There would be no competition issues as bmi would still be flying the same routes from London - they look at the market, not the airport. Much more likely than an outright sale, which would be mired in Takeover Panel issues from here to kingdom come.

[speedtouch]

LH-BA

I'd like to see how BALPA would work that one out!

Although I like the idea.....

ST

[MUFC_fan]

For the 3 to merge would be impossible! The people with the power would certainly not allow a tie up between the 3! I think even BA-LH is pushing it! Add to that AA it would make a stupidly large carrier and cover over 1/2 the world. It really would be ridiculous.

Anyway, LH would have to leave Star Alliance or BA and IB Oneworld which is like asking Jeremy Clarkson to join forces with Cherie Blair.

Not a cat in hells chance

[bmibaby.com]

If anything, and this is purely speculation, I could see Lufthansa cherry picking a few slots for themselves, their subsidiaries or to trade with Star Alliance partners, plus some to sell, and then use the carcass of bmi to sell to another company as a ploy to help get their buyouts of OS/SN through with the EU mergers commission. British Airways stated in, I think it was The Times, in 2007 when SMB was first mulling calling his options, that if bmi were up for sale they would consider the airline at the right price as a strategic move. Obviously all speculation, and for those of us who've been with bmi long enough, stranger things have happened.