MANSTON -3
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Middlesesx
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I admire the loyalty of some of the threaders toward KIA. At BA the reason for the support of a third runway will see our entire operations at LHR. This goal is a priority to reduce costs and secure/ enforce our monopoly. I believe that BA will further reduce LGW services by ceasing operations to many EU destinations thus freeing up a lot more slots / space.
The describtion of MSE / LCY for the passenger can be experienced at LGW today and may continue for a couple of years, likewise STN is far from busy. It is very difficult to start a new pax operation as the cash write off is often about 12 - 18months of the projected earnings. This is far more bearable at an airport already operated from.
While this current climate continues you will see little or no growth at any airports, pax airlines cannot afford to base / operate from new regional airports, it is difficult enough from the base airports to make money. The many passengers that EUjet had were not enough.
Like most of you I hope these trying times are over as quickly as possible. Even then though airlines will be very cautious in starting new operations from regional airports.
The describtion of MSE / LCY for the passenger can be experienced at LGW today and may continue for a couple of years, likewise STN is far from busy. It is very difficult to start a new pax operation as the cash write off is often about 12 - 18months of the projected earnings. This is far more bearable at an airport already operated from.
While this current climate continues you will see little or no growth at any airports, pax airlines cannot afford to base / operate from new regional airports, it is difficult enough from the base airports to make money. The many passengers that EUjet had were not enough.
Like most of you I hope these trying times are over as quickly as possible. Even then though airlines will be very cautious in starting new operations from regional airports.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: uk
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Kent online - Controversial airport plans fail to take flight
Controversial airport plans fail to take flight
by Martin Jefferies
Controversial plans to allow aircraft to take off and land at a Kent airport from 6am until 11.30pm have gone down like a lead balloon among environmental campaigners.
Councillors are expected to decide next Thursday whether to alter a Section 106 environmental agreement - a move that would allow dozens of night-time flights to and from Kent International Airport every month.
Infratil, the New Zealand firm that owns the Manston site, wants to accommodate a major European airline that wants to use the airport for long haul international cargo movements. The as-yet-unnamed company hopes to fly 747 aircraft into the airport up to 11 times a week.
Thanet council says the move could create up to 200 jobs but campaigners claim the inevitable increase in air and noise pollution would be intolerable for residents living beneath the flight path.
Steve Higgins, founder of Stop Manston Expansion Group, said: "What will these flights drive away from Ramsgate and the surrounding towns and villages?
"So many people will affected by these proposals but we seem to have been forgotten about by our local councillors and our MPs."
Steve Dawe, a spokesman for Kent Green Party, added: "If you or I made noise at night after 11pm, the police could be called. There is no such law protecting people from civil aviation at night, so people have no comeback against the airport.
"I think this is the thin end of the wedge and concessions which allow for more noise will pave the way for further development in the future.”
The announcement has divided opinion, with a straw poll on kmfm this morning suggesting the majority of Ramsgate residents favoured the airport's expansion plans.
Some listeners pointed to the economic benefits that extra flights would bring and others said the infrastructure necessary to support additional flights was already in place and should be utilised.
by Martin Jefferies
Controversial plans to allow aircraft to take off and land at a Kent airport from 6am until 11.30pm have gone down like a lead balloon among environmental campaigners.
Councillors are expected to decide next Thursday whether to alter a Section 106 environmental agreement - a move that would allow dozens of night-time flights to and from Kent International Airport every month.
Infratil, the New Zealand firm that owns the Manston site, wants to accommodate a major European airline that wants to use the airport for long haul international cargo movements. The as-yet-unnamed company hopes to fly 747 aircraft into the airport up to 11 times a week.
Thanet council says the move could create up to 200 jobs but campaigners claim the inevitable increase in air and noise pollution would be intolerable for residents living beneath the flight path.
Steve Higgins, founder of Stop Manston Expansion Group, said: "What will these flights drive away from Ramsgate and the surrounding towns and villages?
"So many people will affected by these proposals but we seem to have been forgotten about by our local councillors and our MPs."
Steve Dawe, a spokesman for Kent Green Party, added: "If you or I made noise at night after 11pm, the police could be called. There is no such law protecting people from civil aviation at night, so people have no comeback against the airport.
"I think this is the thin end of the wedge and concessions which allow for more noise will pave the way for further development in the future.”
The announcement has divided opinion, with a straw poll on kmfm this morning suggesting the majority of Ramsgate residents favoured the airport's expansion plans.
Some listeners pointed to the economic benefits that extra flights would bring and others said the infrastructure necessary to support additional flights was already in place and should be utilised.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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It's amazing all these protest groups who suddenly crawl out of the woodwork to register their protest about aircraft noise. There's been an airfield at Manston since about 1915, so surely they were aware of that when they moved in?
Join Date: Dec 2000
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I reproduce detail from a local blog below. It gives a bit more information. It clearly is BAWC that wishes to move to Manston from Stansted.
It would be nice to have an acknowledgement from hounddog 1 and HZ123 that their grumpy responses to me publishing this news well in advance were unjustified, and showed a lack of awareness of what's happening within BAWC.
The only hurdle now is TDC: I think it'll be approved.
A "Major European Airline" (reported to be British Airways World Cargo) is the airline. has requested to be allowed 11 flights of 747s a week. The airline have asked to be able to operate between 11pm and 11.30pm and 6am and 7am meaning the current section 106 agreement governing flight times would need to be changed. The flights could start as early as May.
It is a major operator who wishes to move from another airport but will only do so if the operating hours match the current airport. The hours at that airport are 6 to 23.30 but in fact there are no flights at night at present. It involves 11 flights per week but the problem is 4 of them (per week) will be between 6am and 7am. However, they will operate preferential takeoff and landings when ever the wind speed allows so they are away from Ramsgate and the planes are all new 747s so they are the quietest / cleanest of the freight aircraft available.
The promised pay off is 57 direct jobs at the airport 54 jobs with the airline and approx 300 indirect jobs with people servicing the operation. Also it will create a network of international freight flights that will act as a platform to attract new business to the airport and its surroundings.
A recommendation is to be debated at a public meeting of the full Thanet Council, which takes place at Thanet Council’s main building in Cecil Square, Margate on Thursday, February 12 at 17:00.
It would be nice to have an acknowledgement from hounddog 1 and HZ123 that their grumpy responses to me publishing this news well in advance were unjustified, and showed a lack of awareness of what's happening within BAWC.
The only hurdle now is TDC: I think it'll be approved.
A "Major European Airline" (reported to be British Airways World Cargo) is the airline. has requested to be allowed 11 flights of 747s a week. The airline have asked to be able to operate between 11pm and 11.30pm and 6am and 7am meaning the current section 106 agreement governing flight times would need to be changed. The flights could start as early as May.
It is a major operator who wishes to move from another airport but will only do so if the operating hours match the current airport. The hours at that airport are 6 to 23.30 but in fact there are no flights at night at present. It involves 11 flights per week but the problem is 4 of them (per week) will be between 6am and 7am. However, they will operate preferential takeoff and landings when ever the wind speed allows so they are away from Ramsgate and the planes are all new 747s so they are the quietest / cleanest of the freight aircraft available.
The promised pay off is 57 direct jobs at the airport 54 jobs with the airline and approx 300 indirect jobs with people servicing the operation. Also it will create a network of international freight flights that will act as a platform to attract new business to the airport and its surroundings.
A recommendation is to be debated at a public meeting of the full Thanet Council, which takes place at Thanet Council’s main building in Cecil Square, Margate on Thursday, February 12 at 17:00.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Yes, certainly looks and feels like BAWC.
They just happen to have exactly 11 weekly departures planned from London (Stansted) this summer:
Monday
BA3301 0940LT Dammam/Hong Kong
BA3465 1900LT Cologne/Shanghai Pudong
Tuesday
nil
Wednesday
BA3453 1025LT Munich/Bahrain
BA3571 1415LT Frankfurt/Atlanta
Thursday
BA3427 0915LT Munich/Hong Kong
BA3587 2010LT Frankfurt/Shanghai Pudong
Friday
BA3459 0900LT Hong Kong
Saturday
BA3573 1450LT Frankfurt/Atlanta
BA3577 1510LT Frankfurt/Houston
BA3451 2040LT Frankfurt/Hong Kong
Sunday
BA3457 2010LT Frankfurt/Hong Kong
Not much amongst these departure times to worry the neighbours...and in terms of return arrivals, there is a Thursday arrival currently at 0630LT and a Friday arrival at 0610LT with all the others well within existing daytime operating hours.
I have to say that it would be an absolute travesty if the local green squad got the whole thing turned down...when very clearly the benefits to MSE and the surrounding area would be extremely positive and, from what I can see, the disbenefits really very minimal.
They just happen to have exactly 11 weekly departures planned from London (Stansted) this summer:
Monday
BA3301 0940LT Dammam/Hong Kong
BA3465 1900LT Cologne/Shanghai Pudong
Tuesday
nil
Wednesday
BA3453 1025LT Munich/Bahrain
BA3571 1415LT Frankfurt/Atlanta
Thursday
BA3427 0915LT Munich/Hong Kong
BA3587 2010LT Frankfurt/Shanghai Pudong
Friday
BA3459 0900LT Hong Kong
Saturday
BA3573 1450LT Frankfurt/Atlanta
BA3577 1510LT Frankfurt/Houston
BA3451 2040LT Frankfurt/Hong Kong
Sunday
BA3457 2010LT Frankfurt/Hong Kong
Not much amongst these departure times to worry the neighbours...and in terms of return arrivals, there is a Thursday arrival currently at 0630LT and a Friday arrival at 0610LT with all the others well within existing daytime operating hours.
I have to say that it would be an absolute travesty if the local green squad got the whole thing turned down...when very clearly the benefits to MSE and the surrounding area would be extremely positive and, from what I can see, the disbenefits really very minimal.
It is a major operator who wishes to move from another airport but will only do so if the operating hours match the current airport. The hours at that airport are 6 to 23.30 but in fact there are no flights at night at present.
niknak
Join Date: Dec 2001
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STN is H24 but there is a strict limit on the number of flights permitted after 2330 (or it could be midnight).
As far as I recall, base operators are permitted a very limited number of movements after the curfew each year, but only for genuinely extenuating operational reasons, the rest go to cargo operators.
As far as I recall, base operators are permitted a very limited number of movements after the curfew each year, but only for genuinely extenuating operational reasons, the rest go to cargo operators.
Join Date: Jan 2007
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With the support KCC and Thanet have shown in past years for the airports development i really do hope the green nimby's dont get the upper hand on this one!
With the the UK's flag carrier operating cargo flight's from MSE god only knows what else they could manage to pull in the future.
out of interest? Why dont the likes of S.M.E.G pick up on the fact that every winter traffic picks up significantly compared to the summer months? There is never normally any public outrage at this? If it truly about "numbers" not "hours of the day" then why hasnt anything been said about eygptair and Cargolux starting up at MSE?
In principle Infratil are asking for an extra half an hour each evening to allow 1 aircraft to T/O with noise lasting, what, 20 seconds? Is it really that bad? this isnt Heathrow we are on about.
If the "Night" flights, so to speak, were within current airport hours would this arguemnt even exist?
Please please please let this become a reality....
With the the UK's flag carrier operating cargo flight's from MSE god only knows what else they could manage to pull in the future.
out of interest? Why dont the likes of S.M.E.G pick up on the fact that every winter traffic picks up significantly compared to the summer months? There is never normally any public outrage at this? If it truly about "numbers" not "hours of the day" then why hasnt anything been said about eygptair and Cargolux starting up at MSE?
In principle Infratil are asking for an extra half an hour each evening to allow 1 aircraft to T/O with noise lasting, what, 20 seconds? Is it really that bad? this isnt Heathrow we are on about.
If the "Night" flights, so to speak, were within current airport hours would this arguemnt even exist?
Please please please let this become a reality....
Last edited by Hangar_9; 6th Feb 2009 at 19:41.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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How mixed up are the people of Thanet
So finally something of importance has arisen at Manston, but now suddenly the airports future hangs on this Thursday's vote with the local council? If Manston is an airport then suprise suprise aircraft are going to use it..........what are the council voting on? To have an airport but no aircraft or have an airport with aircraft? I suggest that if the council do not pass this weeks vote then they should accept that Manston's future is as an industrial estate and/or cabbage field and not continue to hark on about its long term future. IF Manston is an airport then for gGds sake let the aircraft in!!!
Join Date: Feb 2008
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KCC has been backing Manston to the hilt, so has the local MP, most of the Council and the majority of the population and it's a place of very high unemployment, so why would a slight variation to an existing agreement (which might result in an Islander's sleep pattern being disturbed for about 10secs twice a week) cause the council to throw it out? 
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My remark that BAWC had never heard of KIA is completely incorrect. It is BAWC intention to commence the flying programme after October 2009. To this effect there are no further flights booked after Oct out of STN and that remark via a BAA ops member at STN. Perhaps enough lobbying has already happened to make this merely a rubber stamp exercise.
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Flight numbers at MSE have dropped throughout the year. No winter pick-up. The odd flight from egypt air bringing in strawberries and whatever else do not cause an issue.
The prospect of MSE starting out with a big carrier to fly after hours is not palatable, as night time curfews can be lifted by the council at the stroke of a pen.
Not that any flying time restrictions are followed anyway.....
The prospect of MSE starting out with a big carrier to fly after hours is not palatable, as night time curfews can be lifted by the council at the stroke of a pen.
Not that any flying time restrictions are followed anyway.....
