MD80 plane crash in Phuket, Sep. 07
piratepete.
It appears to me you are "the wancar"
Let me see:
1) You applied for and was accepted for a position with Udom. It was well known that Udom forced his pilots to fly a B727 at times in the 1990's around S.E Asia during the wet season at night without a serviceable radar.
2) You employed Montri and accept he was inexperienced, Furthermore you accept there was little training with Udom's airlines. There were no SFO's until the F/O's were competent to handle the aircraft in case of Captain incapacitation. I believe you knew at least one Captain was high 'risk'.
3) It could be argued in a U.S court that you should share the responsibility for the accident !.
It appears to me you are "the wancar"
Let me see:
1) You applied for and was accepted for a position with Udom. It was well known that Udom forced his pilots to fly a B727 at times in the 1990's around S.E Asia during the wet season at night without a serviceable radar.
2) You employed Montri and accept he was inexperienced, Furthermore you accept there was little training with Udom's airlines. There were no SFO's until the F/O's were competent to handle the aircraft in case of Captain incapacitation. I believe you knew at least one Captain was high 'risk'.
3) It could be argued in a U.S court that you should share the responsibility for the accident !.
Last edited by B772; 9th Oct 2008 at 08:16.
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Where did that email come from??? (Here) Excellent work Bonnie.
And, as you say, where are the arrest warrants? These people need locking up before they do a "Thaksin & Pojaman".
As for "PiratePete", I think the nickname says it all.
And, as you say, where are the arrest warrants? These people need locking up before they do a "Thaksin & Pojaman".
As for "PiratePete", I think the nickname says it all.
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hi all,
who can answer me what's the gap between the plane and the landing road at phuket airport, deep = 1meter? or more?
It looks to be a water evacuation.
recently , phuket airport said they will improve the water system.
what do you think
who can answer me what's the gap between the plane and the landing road at phuket airport, deep = 1meter? or more?
It looks to be a water evacuation.
recently , phuket airport said they will improve the water system.
what do you think
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did everyone already know this?
The passengers were never informed of the impending crash. (Not a surprise, as a Captain and First Officer with the wherewithal to inform the crew and passengers wouldn't have stopped flying the plane.) Similarly, the flight attendants did not give brace instructions.
The blackbox shows a very poor approach followed by at least 19 seconds of failure to fly the aircraft. The surviving passengers say they knew the aircraft was in trouble a good bit before the impact. (Given the swings of the aircraft, it seems unlikely to all be 20/20 hindsight.) We are told there were a number of deaths due to head injury (flying seats etc).
If the flight attendants had given the "heads down" instructions, perhaps we'd have a few more survivors.
Should the attendants have recognized the need to take matters into their own hands?
The blackbox shows a very poor approach followed by at least 19 seconds of failure to fly the aircraft. The surviving passengers say they knew the aircraft was in trouble a good bit before the impact. (Given the swings of the aircraft, it seems unlikely to all be 20/20 hindsight.) We are told there were a number of deaths due to head injury (flying seats etc).
If the flight attendants had given the "heads down" instructions, perhaps we'd have a few more survivors.
Should the attendants have recognized the need to take matters into their own hands?
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Protests, letter write ins
Please Mod, allow this..
I will protest at HKT the hour of the first flight in IF 1-2 Go resumes flying.
Furthermore I will distribute fact sheets to any and all arriving travelers in front of the airport on a routine basis
Lord Lucan, are you with me?? btw I've run a blog on this at the Nation and if I could start getting some comment , it would be nice.
Also, IU and I have both been banned from ThaiVisa forum, more postings there would help the cause...even if they are deleted, the honchos know we're out ther.. Write letter to editors, even if not printed...they know we're out here...Start lobbying Congress US about FAA ineptitude in failure to properly rate Thailand
We must network, this can be changed , it won't be easy. IU has done all the groundwork and she can only do so much from her home. WE must help her and do what we can..
Ads in National papers too... Is ther a way to start raising funds??
I will protest at HKT the hour of the first flight in IF 1-2 Go resumes flying.
Furthermore I will distribute fact sheets to any and all arriving travelers in front of the airport on a routine basis
Lord Lucan, are you with me?? btw I've run a blog on this at the Nation and if I could start getting some comment , it would be nice.
Also, IU and I have both been banned from ThaiVisa forum, more postings there would help the cause...even if they are deleted, the honchos know we're out ther.. Write letter to editors, even if not printed...they know we're out here...Start lobbying Congress US about FAA ineptitude in failure to properly rate Thailand
We must network, this can be changed , it won't be easy. IU has done all the groundwork and she can only do so much from her home. WE must help her and do what we can..
Ads in National papers too... Is ther a way to start raising funds??
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Depends on the F/A Training Standard...
Hello IU,
In Canada, commercial Flight Attendant training is mandated by Transport Canada. As part of the training standard (TP12296E) the following must be included in the program: (4.4E.4 speaks to your question)
4.4E.3 Identify the signal(s) for assuming the brace position in emergency situations, when it is given, who is responsible for giving it and the crew responsibilities when the brace signal has been given.
4.4E.4 Identify when crew members should assume the brace position if no signal has been given.
Typically, operators include scenarios in their training programs in which Flight Attendants learn to recognize cabin conditions in which they would initiate shouted commands to brace (without direction from the flight deck).
As for the training, or lack thereof, that Thai operators offer or are mandated to provide... another story, I'm sure.
In Canada, commercial Flight Attendant training is mandated by Transport Canada. As part of the training standard (TP12296E) the following must be included in the program: (4.4E.4 speaks to your question)
4.4E.3 Identify the signal(s) for assuming the brace position in emergency situations, when it is given, who is responsible for giving it and the crew responsibilities when the brace signal has been given.
4.4E.4 Identify when crew members should assume the brace position if no signal has been given.
Typically, operators include scenarios in their training programs in which Flight Attendants learn to recognize cabin conditions in which they would initiate shouted commands to brace (without direction from the flight deck).
As for the training, or lack thereof, that Thai operators offer or are mandated to provide... another story, I'm sure.
Last edited by EnnBee; 16th Oct 2008 at 06:50.
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Dear Christy, I applaud what you are doing and will give you support where possible, but you must consider carefully what you are proposing. I don't know on what basis you are staying in Thailand - 30-day stamp, tourist visa, type 'O' visa, work permit, etc. I'm sure you're not on a "Retirement" visa like me.
The problem is that at any time these visas can be revoked. I have made my choice to live in Thailand and won't do anything to jeopardise my visa status. Thailand is not a place where free speech is tolerated much. People like Udom have influence and that's why influential people get away with such **** in this country. It doesn't cost much to bribe an official or "disappear" people.
So I cannot support you by protesting in public and risking being held, my name and address being known, possibly arrested, possibly blacklisted and deported. I will support you in other ways, but not this. Sorry. We are farang. We are only tolerated here because we spend money.
You must also consider your own position here. I don't want you to disappear from Thailand the same way that you have disappeared from Thaivisa. I note that not only have you and InvestigateUdom been banned from Thaivisa, but you no longer exist in their member list and I can find no trace of any of your posts. InvestigateUdom appears as a banned member with 0 posts. So Thaivisa have clearly decided to delete all your posts and that any discussion getting near the truth about Udom is unwelcome. They fear their web site being banned in Thailand, which is a real possibility if certain influential people start talking via their bank accounts rather than through the courts.
The email from Cho to Udom and Namfon that is on the IU web site is - if it can be proved to be genuine - completely damning. The whole lot should go to jail and be banned from the aviation industry for life.
The problem is that at any time these visas can be revoked. I have made my choice to live in Thailand and won't do anything to jeopardise my visa status. Thailand is not a place where free speech is tolerated much. People like Udom have influence and that's why influential people get away with such **** in this country. It doesn't cost much to bribe an official or "disappear" people.
So I cannot support you by protesting in public and risking being held, my name and address being known, possibly arrested, possibly blacklisted and deported. I will support you in other ways, but not this. Sorry. We are farang. We are only tolerated here because we spend money.
You must also consider your own position here. I don't want you to disappear from Thailand the same way that you have disappeared from Thaivisa. I note that not only have you and InvestigateUdom been banned from Thaivisa, but you no longer exist in their member list and I can find no trace of any of your posts. InvestigateUdom appears as a banned member with 0 posts. So Thaivisa have clearly decided to delete all your posts and that any discussion getting near the truth about Udom is unwelcome. They fear their web site being banned in Thailand, which is a real possibility if certain influential people start talking via their bank accounts rather than through the courts.
The email from Cho to Udom and Namfon that is on the IU web site is - if it can be proved to be genuine - completely damning. The whole lot should go to jail and be banned from the aviation industry for life.
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The email from Cho to Udom and Namfon that is on the IU web site is - if it can be proved to be genuine - completely damning. The whole lot should go to jail and be banned from the aviation industry for life.
Criminal procedures in Thailand also allow a provincial governor, or the minister who is pressing the charge, to allow a good, upstanding citizen who has made valuable contributions to society, to negotiate (pre-conviction/sentencing) an additional fine to be paid in lieu of serving prison time.
Christy, I think LL is correct. Your proposed method may be effective in other jurisdictions, but places you at great personal risk with little to no chance of achieving your desired outcome. IU, working in and through other jurisdictions, is much more likely to be successful.
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Lord Lucan
Well said. I am in exactly the same position as you. As an aviator myself it makes my blood boil to see what is going on but, like you, I have a lifestyle and a family to think of. What good would it do to get chucked out at my time of life? Sorry IU and CS. You have my support but overt action, for me at any rate, is out of the question.
What I can do is make sure that all my friends, farang and Thai, are aware of the situation and it's ramifications and that they should avoid OTG and OT like the plague along with several other dubious airlines around the world. My daughter wants to fly as cabin crew. She has already been told that Thai Inter and Air Asia are OK but anyone else locally - over my dead body!
What I can do is make sure that all my friends, farang and Thai, are aware of the situation and it's ramifications and that they should avoid OTG and OT like the plague along with several other dubious airlines around the world. My daughter wants to fly as cabin crew. She has already been told that Thai Inter and Air Asia are OK but anyone else locally - over my dead body!
Last edited by Xeque; 17th Oct 2008 at 08:28.
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One To Go flying again?
October 16th in VHHH a OneTo Go MD 80 taxied out behind us using an Orient Thai call sign. Please explain how this can happen after all that has happened. Is there no justice for the dead and there families?
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Anyone who can, please send proof of these flights or a quick statement of witnessing it to [email protected].
My sincerest thanks.
My sincerest thanks.
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Using this link you can see all flights at BKK
Both HKG and ICN are showing as 747 for OG
(BKK) Suvarnabhumi Airport Departures & Arrivals
Don't know how far you can check back
Both HKG and ICN are showing as 747 for OG
(BKK) Suvarnabhumi Airport Departures & Arrivals
Don't know how far you can check back
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B747eng
Are you saying that your friend actually flew on a OTG MD80 operating as Orient Thai? I have to ask, 'Is your friend insane?' It would be interesting to know how many pax the aircraft was actually carrying.
Last edited by Xeque; 18th Oct 2008 at 13:19.
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OG MD-82s in HKG
I have seen Orient Thai MD-82s in Hong Kong on several occasions over the last few years,and by all accounts they are not infrequent visitors there.