MD80 plane crash in Phuket, Sep. 07
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1-2 Go near miss admonishment
This was posted on another thread, see you already saw it, Investigate Udom.
The link to this story is disabled though it just appeared on Saturday, April 26
http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/26Apr2008_news02.php
The Department of Civil Aviation will issue an official warning to One-Two-Go Airlines, requiring its pilots to strictly follow safety standards after an investigation indicated one of its pilots may have failed to do so in a near miss with a Nok Air plane last December.
Wuthichai Singhamanee, deputy director-general of the department in charge of air investigation, said yesterday his team had already concluded its investigation into the near miss between the One-Two-Go and Nok Air planes. The two budget airlines' planes were flying in opposite directions between Bangkok and the North on Dec 15 last year. It put the blame on One-Two-Go.
According to Mr Wuthichai, the One-Two-Go plane _ flight OG 8104 from Bangkok to Chiang Mai _ had its autopilot system disengaged. It suddenly descended and its pilot tried to raise it. While the pilot was trying to gain altitude, the plane was heading for a mid-air collision with the Nok Air plane, flight DD 8715 from Chiang Rai to Bangkok.
The Traffic Alert and Collision Avoidance System (TACS) alarms on both planes sounded when they were one kilometre apart over Takhli district in Nakhon Sawan province. However, the pilots of both planes avoided colliding as they were about 300 metres apart in altitude.
Mr Wuthichai said that under aviation safety standards when an autopilot was disengaged the pilot had to turn his plane either left or right by 45 degrees to leave his flight route.
The One-Two-Go pilot failed to follow this procedure, while air traffic controllers also failed to monitor the situation or give instructions. The pilot did not report the incident to air traffic controllers, which is compulsory.
''Therefore, the department needed to give the airline a warning, telling it to have its pilots strictly follow standard practices,'' Mr Wuthichai said.
The link to this story is disabled though it just appeared on Saturday, April 26
http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/26Apr2008_news02.php
The Department of Civil Aviation will issue an official warning to One-Two-Go Airlines, requiring its pilots to strictly follow safety standards after an investigation indicated one of its pilots may have failed to do so in a near miss with a Nok Air plane last December.
Wuthichai Singhamanee, deputy director-general of the department in charge of air investigation, said yesterday his team had already concluded its investigation into the near miss between the One-Two-Go and Nok Air planes. The two budget airlines' planes were flying in opposite directions between Bangkok and the North on Dec 15 last year. It put the blame on One-Two-Go.
According to Mr Wuthichai, the One-Two-Go plane _ flight OG 8104 from Bangkok to Chiang Mai _ had its autopilot system disengaged. It suddenly descended and its pilot tried to raise it. While the pilot was trying to gain altitude, the plane was heading for a mid-air collision with the Nok Air plane, flight DD 8715 from Chiang Rai to Bangkok.
The Traffic Alert and Collision Avoidance System (TACS) alarms on both planes sounded when they were one kilometre apart over Takhli district in Nakhon Sawan province. However, the pilots of both planes avoided colliding as they were about 300 metres apart in altitude.
Mr Wuthichai said that under aviation safety standards when an autopilot was disengaged the pilot had to turn his plane either left or right by 45 degrees to leave his flight route.
The One-Two-Go pilot failed to follow this procedure, while air traffic controllers also failed to monitor the situation or give instructions. The pilot did not report the incident to air traffic controllers, which is compulsory.
''Therefore, the department needed to give the airline a warning, telling it to have its pilots strictly follow standard practices,'' Mr Wuthichai said.
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Here's a different link to the same story that currently works:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/260408_Ne...008_news02.php
http://www.bangkokpost.com/260408_Ne...008_news02.php
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Petition and Information Update
We have over 4,000 signatures on InvestigateUdom.com and have had over 10,000 viewers.
There is a relatively new link on the site titled "Press Information". From there, you'll see information about our work pressing for a proper investigation, approved statements from you pilots, and (near the bottom) solid proof to support the allegations.
Thank you for your signatures, support, evidence, pictures, suggestions and comments.
More in the near future....
There is a relatively new link on the site titled "Press Information". From there, you'll see information about our work pressing for a proper investigation, approved statements from you pilots, and (near the bottom) solid proof to support the allegations.
Thank you for your signatures, support, evidence, pictures, suggestions and comments.
More in the near future....
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Statistics
I've been curious about the comparative safety records of flight in the US and Thailand. I did a little digging and came up with some values. I'm interested in your feedback and thoughts on improving the accuracy of these values.
Based on this link at the DCA website, I can see Thailand's flight volume, domestic and international for many years past. Ignoring general aviation, mail and military flights, it looks like Thailand managed just under 360,000 flights in the YEAR 2007.
Based on this link at the NATCA site, based on the values for major and regional airlines and flights for hire while ignoring the values for general aviation, mail and military flight, it looks like the US handles about 55,000 flights a DAY.
Do these numbers seem generally correct to you pros? Have I come close to comparing apples with apples? It might be best to respond to me personally than digress on this thread - but that's up to you all.
(Preemptively, I'm including a link to Wikipeadia's discussion of lies, damn lies and statistics.)
Many thanks.
Based on this link at the DCA website, I can see Thailand's flight volume, domestic and international for many years past. Ignoring general aviation, mail and military flights, it looks like Thailand managed just under 360,000 flights in the YEAR 2007.
Based on this link at the NATCA site, based on the values for major and regional airlines and flights for hire while ignoring the values for general aviation, mail and military flight, it looks like the US handles about 55,000 flights a DAY.
Do these numbers seem generally correct to you pros? Have I come close to comparing apples with apples? It might be best to respond to me personally than digress on this thread - but that's up to you all.
(Preemptively, I'm including a link to Wikipeadia's discussion of lies, damn lies and statistics.)
Many thanks.
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relative safety
As for relative safety statistics: look at the IATA figures, Boeing figures, ICAO figures, and you will see them expressed as incidents per million flights or flight hours. The IATA 2006 review excerpt below runs...
"The 2006 industry hull loss rate was 0.65 accidents per million flights for Western-built jets, which is equivalent to one accident for every 1.5 million flights—a 14% improvement on 2005. IATA’s member airlines performed significantly better than the global average with a hull-loss rate of 0.48 accidents per million flights, or one accident for every two million flights. There were 77 accidents in 2006, compared to 111 in 2005. Of these 77 accidents, 46 involved jet aircraft and 31 involved turbo-props."
Orient Thai and OTG are not IATA members. One can only wonder what an IOSA audit would do for them.
Having been heavily involved in matters relating to Adam Air 574 , Garuda 200 and OTG 069 over the past 18 months, my opinion is that an IOSA audit process should be mandated by the aviation insurers of all three.
"The 2006 industry hull loss rate was 0.65 accidents per million flights for Western-built jets, which is equivalent to one accident for every 1.5 million flights—a 14% improvement on 2005. IATA’s member airlines performed significantly better than the global average with a hull-loss rate of 0.48 accidents per million flights, or one accident for every two million flights. There were 77 accidents in 2006, compared to 111 in 2005. Of these 77 accidents, 46 involved jet aircraft and 31 involved turbo-props."
Orient Thai and OTG are not IATA members. One can only wonder what an IOSA audit would do for them.
Having been heavily involved in matters relating to Adam Air 574 , Garuda 200 and OTG 069 over the past 18 months, my opinion is that an IOSA audit process should be mandated by the aviation insurers of all three.
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Having been heavily involved in matters relating to Adam Air 574 , Garuda 200 and OTG 069 over the past 18 months, my opinion is that an IOSA audit process should be mandated by the aviation insurers of all three.
That said, it'll be a while before I'd step on a 12go jet... even on the ground.
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More Statistics
Swiss Cheese: Thanks, I'll mention an IOSA audit when I speak to the insurance company.
Using very rough numbers, Thailand looks to have had 1 crash in every 1.9 million commercial flights over the past 10 years. In the same period of time, the US seems to have had 1 crash for each 28 million commercial flights including Sept 11, 2001. The numbers for the US seem to be 1 crash in 55 million commercial flights excluding Sept 11. So, depending upon your view of including terrorist attacks, commercial flight in the US seems to be either 15x or 30x safer than in Thailand.
Does anyone have access to the better data, or anecdotal information?
EDIT: I think these numbers are missing 1 or 2 serious incidents in Thailand, such as nearly blowing up the PM in 2001. This would make the values very different.
Using very rough numbers, Thailand looks to have had 1 crash in every 1.9 million commercial flights over the past 10 years. In the same period of time, the US seems to have had 1 crash for each 28 million commercial flights including Sept 11, 2001. The numbers for the US seem to be 1 crash in 55 million commercial flights excluding Sept 11. So, depending upon your view of including terrorist attacks, commercial flight in the US seems to be either 15x or 30x safer than in Thailand.
Does anyone have access to the better data, or anecdotal information?
EDIT: I think these numbers are missing 1 or 2 serious incidents in Thailand, such as nearly blowing up the PM in 2001. This would make the values very different.
Last edited by InvestigateUdom; 5th Jun 2008 at 19:40.
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Article in Xpress
The Nation Xpress had a small article on our petition the other day. (Accompanied by a big picture of the crash.)
I hear One-Two-Go distributes the Xpress on all their flights.
I hear One-Two-Go distributes the Xpress on all their flights.
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email for Wuthichai?
Does anyone have the email for DCA Deputy Director-General Wuthichai?
[email protected] and [email protected] bounce.
Many thanks in advance.
[email protected] and [email protected] bounce.
Many thanks in advance.
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Phuket Gazette story about InvestigateUdom Petition
I just received this 'news email' from the Gazette:
Link: http://www.phuketgazette.net/news/in...=2008523184621 (6th story down)
Internet petition calls for another One-Two-Go crash probe
BANGKOK (Daily Xpress): More than 4,400 people, mostly foreigners, have “signed” an Internet petition seeking another formal investigation into the crash of One-Two-GO Airlines Flight OG269 at Phuket International Airport on September 17 last year.
The petition calls for a formal probe into claims that the crash may have been caused by controversial management practices by the airline.
Relatives of some of the 90 people killed in the crash have written to Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej seeking an independent inquiry into allegations raised by a television report that the boss of One-Two-Go and its sister airline Orient Thai encouraged pilots to adopt unsafe practices, such as excessive flying hours.
The allegations are detailed on the website www.investigateudom.com set up by the American sister of a man who was killed in the crash.
Udom Tantisprasong-chai, the head of One-Two-Go and Orient Thai, denied any wrongdoing on the documentary report, aired on Australian TV last year, but families of the deceased – many of whom have signed the petition – appear to remain unconvinced.
Many of those who have signed the petition have also expressed a lack of faith that the inquiries being conducted by the Department of Civil Aviation will get to the true cause of the crash.
Brought to you by:
The Phuket Gazette
08:27 local time (GMT +7)
BANGKOK (Daily Xpress): More than 4,400 people, mostly foreigners, have “signed” an Internet petition seeking another formal investigation into the crash of One-Two-GO Airlines Flight OG269 at Phuket International Airport on September 17 last year.
The petition calls for a formal probe into claims that the crash may have been caused by controversial management practices by the airline.
Relatives of some of the 90 people killed in the crash have written to Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej seeking an independent inquiry into allegations raised by a television report that the boss of One-Two-Go and its sister airline Orient Thai encouraged pilots to adopt unsafe practices, such as excessive flying hours.
The allegations are detailed on the website www.investigateudom.com set up by the American sister of a man who was killed in the crash.
Udom Tantisprasong-chai, the head of One-Two-Go and Orient Thai, denied any wrongdoing on the documentary report, aired on Australian TV last year, but families of the deceased – many of whom have signed the petition – appear to remain unconvinced.
Many of those who have signed the petition have also expressed a lack of faith that the inquiries being conducted by the Department of Civil Aviation will get to the true cause of the crash.
Brought to you by:
The Phuket Gazette
08:27 local time (GMT +7)
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Fraudulent Checkrides in Dec and a question
We've posted pretty compelling evidence of fraudulent checkrides one month after the crash of OG269. Seems the Captain approving the rides was on leave. You can see photos of the proficiency checks, the request for leave, and the OT roster sheet used for payroll on the press info link. (look near the bottom.)
Also, there is a letter describing the evidence. As I understand it, that letter was provided to the DCA some time ago.
Question: I heard a rumor that the UN pulled their contract from Orient Thai. Can anyone confirm?
Also, there is a letter describing the evidence. As I understand it, that letter was provided to the DCA some time ago.
Question: I heard a rumor that the UN pulled their contract from Orient Thai. Can anyone confirm?
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Investigate Udom
I cofirm to you that Udom doesn't have any checkrides done as he doesn't want a Check Captain sitting in the jump seat and pay him money. When you look through the files in the old days you will no check rides done in the files so they just fudge the documentation at this time to satisfy the requirements.
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"Black Box"
I have the information from the DCVR and DFDR for the final moments before the crash. I have confirmed the information from 2 sources and have no doubt as to its accuracy. The official cause of the crash is "flight crew error".
Is someone reading this thread willing and able to give a qualified synopsis of the flight crew error(s). If so, I'd like to post that synopsis (name attached) along with the transcript on the petition site press link.
Thank you in advance.
Is someone reading this thread willing and able to give a qualified synopsis of the flight crew error(s). If so, I'd like to post that synopsis (name attached) along with the transcript on the petition site press link.
Thank you in advance.
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Blackbox and Synopsis posted
The blackbox info and a synopsis (under my name) are now posted.
Also posted is a letter from the FAA confirming their return to Thailand to discuss Thailand's category 1 rating in the US.
On your way to reading the DCVR and DFDR, please sign the petition if you haven't yet.
www.InvestigateUdom.com "Press Information" link
Also posted is a letter from the FAA confirming their return to Thailand to discuss Thailand's category 1 rating in the US.
On your way to reading the DCVR and DFDR, please sign the petition if you haven't yet.
www.InvestigateUdom.com "Press Information" link
