MD80 plane crash in Phuket, Sep. 07
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In my divorce agreement I have to supply my Ex-Wife with 2 years of tickets in Asia. It’s that previous lifestyle thing that she was used too.
Hope she enjoys 1-2-GO.
Thought it was well presented also.
Hope she enjoys 1-2-GO.
Thought it was well presented also.
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The cause was what exactly ?
It has been a few years since I flew the MD8x but I will have a stab.
For whatever reason be it WS or lack of visual references the crew elected to GA but neglected to push the GA button.
Scenario 1: A GA was initiated due windshear as was stated. - The procedure is.... You hit the button and pitch up. Holding the configuration i.e. Gear stays in position to mitigate ground contact and the flaps remain in landing position until warning ceases. However this is not how the aircraft was found... the gear was up and the flaps at GA setting. Which gives a little more weight to.....
Scenario 2: The A/c was at or below DA and a decision (by whoever/both) was made to GA due poor visual refs. The HP calls 'GA flap X' and thinks he hits the button. The FD's stay in LDG mode [LCZR] + [GS], the flaps travel up and the throttles also stay put as the a/c continues toward the ground. At Vref+5 with approach power set and GA flap travelling the A/c is not in a good configuration especially in gusty conditions. Sooner or later someone on the flight deck wakes up and notices this. A harsh pitch recovery from this configuration at low level in bad weather might easily have precipitated a departure from controlled flight, tipping a wingtip into the ground.
Windshear of not - There is strong evidence of mishandling close to the ground.
It has been a few years since I flew the MD8x but I will have a stab.
For whatever reason be it WS or lack of visual references the crew elected to GA but neglected to push the GA button.
Scenario 1: A GA was initiated due windshear as was stated. - The procedure is.... You hit the button and pitch up. Holding the configuration i.e. Gear stays in position to mitigate ground contact and the flaps remain in landing position until warning ceases. However this is not how the aircraft was found... the gear was up and the flaps at GA setting. Which gives a little more weight to.....
Scenario 2: The A/c was at or below DA and a decision (by whoever/both) was made to GA due poor visual refs. The HP calls 'GA flap X' and thinks he hits the button. The FD's stay in LDG mode [LCZR] + [GS], the flaps travel up and the throttles also stay put as the a/c continues toward the ground. At Vref+5 with approach power set and GA flap travelling the A/c is not in a good configuration especially in gusty conditions. Sooner or later someone on the flight deck wakes up and notices this. A harsh pitch recovery from this configuration at low level in bad weather might easily have precipitated a departure from controlled flight, tipping a wingtip into the ground.
Windshear of not - There is strong evidence of mishandling close to the ground.
Paxing All Over The World
Non-pilot speaking
Also the contributory causes. The great difficulty is trying to ascertain whether the one or both of the pilots were fatigued at the time. Aspects of company culture are also relevant. All that I have read here indicates that folks imagine that the contributory causes will be ignored or certainly not part of an official report.
The cause was what exactly ?
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for your information, It was an ILS offset approach,runway track is 265 but LLZ course is 267. Cat D DA is 550, touch down aerodrome height is 55 ft. And crash site was to the right of the runway. Could it be that they followed the offset course then go around then veer to the right in windshear.
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Conclusions?
Paxboy,
Indeed the final report will be doctored. The Thai DCA has a lot to hide concerning this crash. Had they done their job, this company would have been shut down, and therefore this "accident" would not have occurred
Indeed the final report will be doctored. The Thai DCA has a lot to hide concerning this crash. Had they done their job, this company would have been shut down, and therefore this "accident" would not have occurred
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More Dis- information
http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/11Dec2007_news03.php
New tests for foreign pilots in wake of Phuket crash AMORNRAT MAHITTHIROOK
The One-Two-Go air tragedy at Phuket airport in September has prompted the Civil Aviation Department to require that all foreign pilots working in Thailand cooperate better with their Thai co-pilots. Deputy director-general of the department Wuthichai Singhamanee said that after the crash which killed 90 people in Phuket, officials observed One-Two-Go pilots during flights and found that the airline's many foreign pilots did not cooperate well with their Thai co-pilots.
The foreign pilots' working culture was different from that of the Thais, they said.
Thai pilots had to get to know each other before working well together, but foreigners did not need to do so, the official said.
The department is about to issue a new regulation requiring all foreign pilots working in Thailand to pass a test on their ability to cooperate with their fellow workers. The Crew Resource Management (CRM) test will focus on cooperation between pilots and co-pilots.
However, Mr Wuthichai denied that poor cooperation between the pilots was a factor behind the Sept 16 crash of the One-Two-Go flight, one of three budget airlines operating in Thailand.
Apart from the CRM test, the department will also require all foreign pilots working in Thailand to be tested on their knowledge of Thai aviation laws. The CRM and the Thai aviation law tests will apply to all foreign pilots working in Thailand.
At present, foreign pilots are only tested on flight simulators.
Mr Wuthichai added that aviation officials would also observe pilots in-flight on all other Thai airlines
New tests for foreign pilots in wake of Phuket crash AMORNRAT MAHITTHIROOK
The One-Two-Go air tragedy at Phuket airport in September has prompted the Civil Aviation Department to require that all foreign pilots working in Thailand cooperate better with their Thai co-pilots. Deputy director-general of the department Wuthichai Singhamanee said that after the crash which killed 90 people in Phuket, officials observed One-Two-Go pilots during flights and found that the airline's many foreign pilots did not cooperate well with their Thai co-pilots.
The foreign pilots' working culture was different from that of the Thais, they said.
Thai pilots had to get to know each other before working well together, but foreigners did not need to do so, the official said.
The department is about to issue a new regulation requiring all foreign pilots working in Thailand to pass a test on their ability to cooperate with their fellow workers. The Crew Resource Management (CRM) test will focus on cooperation between pilots and co-pilots.
However, Mr Wuthichai denied that poor cooperation between the pilots was a factor behind the Sept 16 crash of the One-Two-Go flight, one of three budget airlines operating in Thailand.
Apart from the CRM test, the department will also require all foreign pilots working in Thailand to be tested on their knowledge of Thai aviation laws. The CRM and the Thai aviation law tests will apply to all foreign pilots working in Thailand.
At present, foreign pilots are only tested on flight simulators.
Mr Wuthichai added that aviation officials would also observe pilots in-flight on all other Thai airlines
ENTREPPRUNEUR
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The story at the moment seems to be they initiated a go-around but did not get full power. The implication is one of the crew should have engaged TOGA. Surely under these circumstances they couldn't have sat there without anything happening. Surely as soon as the engines didn't spool up hands would have lunged onto the throttle levers? On an MD83 what's the impact of applying power using the levers rather that using TOGA?
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Twistedenginestarter wrote:
I'm afraid anyone who has worked in Asia is fully aware of the social need to respect someone who is older hence little chance for the younger co-pilot to question the captain or touch anything. Big CRM problems in Asia
The story at the moment seems to be they initiated a go-around but did not get full power. The implication is one of the crew should have engaged TOGA. Surely under these circumstances they couldn't have sat there without anything happening. Surely as soon as the engines didn't spool up hands would have lunged onto the throttle levers? On an MD83 what's the impact of applying power using the levers rather that using TOGA?
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New tests for foreign pilots in wake of Phuket crash
How about making sure nobody at the DCA gets too cosy with Udom and his cronies?
How about investigating what was taking place at OX-OG?
How about grounding OX-OG and prosecuting Udom for manslauther?
How about the DCA doing their job, which is oversight of carriers operating in Thailand?
How about investigating what was taking place at OX-OG?
How about grounding OX-OG and prosecuting Udom for manslauther?
How about the DCA doing their job, which is oversight of carriers operating in Thailand?
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Investigate Udom
It's been over 5 months since the crash and it is clear that no meaningful investigation is occurring. Thai Aviation Authority recently said "No punishment will be imposed... because the accident was beyond control." They also claim the NTSB couldn't determine the cause of the crash.
If you favor a meaningful investigation and safer air travel, help us encourage the Thai government to investigate the crash and Udom Tantiprasonchai. Sign the petition at www.InvestigateUdom.com and send the URL to everyone you know who would be interested in ensuring accountability in air travel.
Thanks.
If you favor a meaningful investigation and safer air travel, help us encourage the Thai government to investigate the crash and Udom Tantiprasonchai. Sign the petition at www.InvestigateUdom.com and send the URL to everyone you know who would be interested in ensuring accountability in air travel.
Thanks.
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Hah.
Sign as many worthless documents as you wish.
The Thai government don't give a hoot what you think and never will.
And quite rightly so. They have never been occupied by a western power and subsequently don't adhere to the legislate/litigate culture thank god.
Pick a western carrier if you fly in Thailand...and leave the Thais to themselves. They have done a remarkable job without our crappy western influences for thousands of years.
Most ATCs in Thailand don't have a basic grasp of aviation english...
I hope you petition is written in Thai
Sign as many worthless documents as you wish.
The Thai government don't give a hoot what you think and never will.
And quite rightly so. They have never been occupied by a western power and subsequently don't adhere to the legislate/litigate culture thank god.
Pick a western carrier if you fly in Thailand...and leave the Thais to themselves. They have done a remarkable job without our crappy western influences for thousands of years.
Most ATCs in Thailand don't have a basic grasp of aviation english...
I hope you petition is written in Thai