MD80 plane crash in Phuket, Sep. 07
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I agree with Dani that Thai Inter is one of the best in the area along with Singapore Airlines (but some may disagree there). I've put both airlines at the top of my favourites list for many years. As for budget carriers, I've had no problems with Air Asia. I've never tried any of the others.
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Pilot sent 'mayday' to tower
From today's Bangkok Post
http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/23Sep2007_news03.php
The chief pilot of the ill-fated One-Two-Go airliner sent a distress signal to the control tower just before it crash-landed last Sunday, said Pornchai Ua-aree, director of Phuket international airport. The pilot used a ''mayday'' signal to ask for help just before the plane veered off the runway and crashed into an earth embankment.
Sqn-Ldr Pornchai, who briefed a delegation from the National Legislative Assembly (NLA) transport committee about last week's crash, said airport controllers had warned the pilot about gusting winds and rain.
He said the controllers received information [from the pilot] that as the aircraft was about to touch down, its wheels were out, but they did not touch the ground.
He cited the taped conversation between the air traffic controllers and the pilot.
''The chief pilot shouted 'mayday' repeatedly to ask for help until he lost contact with the control tower,'' Sqn-Ldr Pornchai said.
Sqn-Ldr Pornchai, who briefed a delegation from the National Legislative Assembly (NLA) transport committee about last week's crash, said airport controllers had warned the pilot about gusting winds and rain.
He said the controllers received information [from the pilot] that as the aircraft was about to touch down, its wheels were out, but they did not touch the ground.
He cited the taped conversation between the air traffic controllers and the pilot.
''The chief pilot shouted 'mayday' repeatedly to ask for help until he lost contact with the control tower,'' Sqn-Ldr Pornchai said.
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Namfon
Devil Any, agree comletely with your post, but you forgot to add the other culprits who get rid of the better trained pilots and promote xxxxxxx to Chief Pilot, like NAMFON, SOMMUIT and ONGAR.......they are just as culpable as Udom.
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"Thai Airways is most probably one of the better national carriers in SE Asia."
A fine statement on the face of it, but look at the competiton... Thai is not (from my perspective as pax) in the same league with Singapore or Brunei and on a par on most competitive or comparable routes with Malaysia. From there you descend into the disgraceful atrocities that comprise the airlines and aviation cultures of Indonesia, the Philippines, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar.
The fact that TG struggles to finish in the money in a four horse race is not a ringing endorsement.
A fine statement on the face of it, but look at the competiton... Thai is not (from my perspective as pax) in the same league with Singapore or Brunei and on a par on most competitive or comparable routes with Malaysia. From there you descend into the disgraceful atrocities that comprise the airlines and aviation cultures of Indonesia, the Philippines, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar.
The fact that TG struggles to finish in the money in a four horse race is not a ringing endorsement.
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Phuket crash: Pilot sent mayday
2007-9-23 08:02
Bangkok - The pilot of the One-Two-Go budget airline that crashed in Phuket a week ago, killing 89 people, issued a distress signal to the airport tower before skidding off the runway, news reports said Sunday.
"The chief pilot shouted 'mayday' repeatedly to ask for help until he lost contact with the control tower," Pornchai Ua-aree, director of Phuket International Airport, told the Bangkok Post.
Controllers also received information from the pilot that although the aircraft's wheels were out they had not touched the ground, Porchai said.
On September 16, One-Two-Go flight OG269 landed at Phuket International Airport, 640 kilometres south of Bangkok, during a tropical rain storm and skidded off the runway into an embankment where it broke in two and burst into flames.
The accident killed 89 people, including 53 foreigners and 36 Thais. There were 41 survivors, of whom 23 were still in hospital as of Sunday.
Thai aviation authorities have sent the plane's two black box flight recorders to the US to determine the cause of the crash, which should be announced within a week.
The tragedy has, inevitably, raised questions about the safety standards of budget airlines which have proliferated worldwide as well is Asia.
Meanwhile, One-Two-Go, a privately owned no-frills' airline that has operated for the past eight years without a major accident, reported another rough landing on Saturday at Had Yai Airport, about 700 kilometres south of Bangkok.
Although the pilot managed to control the plane, at least one passenger was bruised when an overhead air-conditioning panel fell on top of him upon landing, news reports said.
On Thursday, Thai AirAsia, another budget airline operating in Thailand, had to return to Bangkok for an emergency landing after the pilot noticed a mechanical problem. No one was injured in the incident.
SAPA: http://www.24.com/news/?p=tsa&i=686425
Bangkok - The pilot of the One-Two-Go budget airline that crashed in Phuket a week ago, killing 89 people, issued a distress signal to the airport tower before skidding off the runway, news reports said Sunday.
"The chief pilot shouted 'mayday' repeatedly to ask for help until he lost contact with the control tower," Pornchai Ua-aree, director of Phuket International Airport, told the Bangkok Post.
Controllers also received information from the pilot that although the aircraft's wheels were out they had not touched the ground, Porchai said.
On September 16, One-Two-Go flight OG269 landed at Phuket International Airport, 640 kilometres south of Bangkok, during a tropical rain storm and skidded off the runway into an embankment where it broke in two and burst into flames.
The accident killed 89 people, including 53 foreigners and 36 Thais. There were 41 survivors, of whom 23 were still in hospital as of Sunday.
Thai aviation authorities have sent the plane's two black box flight recorders to the US to determine the cause of the crash, which should be announced within a week.
The tragedy has, inevitably, raised questions about the safety standards of budget airlines which have proliferated worldwide as well is Asia.
Meanwhile, One-Two-Go, a privately owned no-frills' airline that has operated for the past eight years without a major accident, reported another rough landing on Saturday at Had Yai Airport, about 700 kilometres south of Bangkok.
Although the pilot managed to control the plane, at least one passenger was bruised when an overhead air-conditioning panel fell on top of him upon landing, news reports said.
On Thursday, Thai AirAsia, another budget airline operating in Thailand, had to return to Bangkok for an emergency landing after the pilot noticed a mechanical problem. No one was injured in the incident.
SAPA: http://www.24.com/news/?p=tsa&i=686425
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The Pilot???
It sounds like that airlines in Thailand operate aircaft with single crew?
Every single reference anywhere regarding this accident refers to the crew as THE PILOT.
Why oh why can't the barely intelligent media; papers and TV just get this one small thing right? It's PILOTS for
sake!
I know it's not THAT important, but still winds me up! Fs
Every single reference anywhere regarding this accident refers to the crew as THE PILOT.
Why oh why can't the barely intelligent media; papers and TV just get this one small thing right? It's PILOTS for
sake!I know it's not THAT important, but still winds me up! F
s
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Every single reference anywhere regarding this accident refers to the crew as THE PILOT
I guess this forum has referred to "The Journo" more than once. Most news stories pass a greater number of people than you stuff into a cockpit...
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The Hero of Flight 269
http://www.phuketgazette.com/news/in...ch=yes&Id=5971
This guy deserves a medal.
Air-crash mystery hero steps forward
PHUKET CITY: Australian Robert Borland, who was pulled from the burning wreckage of One-Two-Go Flight OG269 on Sunday by a “man in a yellow shirt”, finally had a chance to thank his savior in a meeting arranged yesterday afternoon by the staff of Bangkok Phuket Hospital, where both men are being treated for injuries sustained in the crash.
The hero was identified as Paiboon Phaphan, a 39-year-old air-conditioner mechanic and resident of Village 3, Tambon Pa Khlok, Thalang.
K. Paiboon, who suffered a back injury and walked to the meeting supported by a brace, told the Gazette in a weak voice that he was not a regular flyer and was returning from Bangkok with his boss at the time of the accident.
“I am still afraid to fly now. I think it will take some time before I will be able to fly again,” he said.
Mr Borland, 48, a 10-year resident of Phuket and a tsunami survivor, suffered a broken bone in his back and was trampled by passengers desperate to escape the burning fuselage. Thanks to K. Paiboon, he was among the last to make it out of the plane alive.
“Other people were trying to escape, and many of them were stepping over and on top of me. I was also on fire. My trousers were burning… I couldn’t get out of the aircraft, but I think there was a Thai man and he had a yellow shirt on; he dragged me through the emergency exit and onto the wing.
“Because the wing was slippery, I slid off it and fell to the ground. I was seated in the aircraft’s midsection, near the wing and the emergency exit, which was quite lucky for me,” he told the Gazette earlier.
After meeting Mr Borland, K. Paiboon recounted his own memory of the chaos. “It was raining very hard and the landing was very hard, much harder than usual, so I put my head down and braced myself against the seat in front of me,” he said.
“After we crashed with a loud bang everything went dark and a fire broke out in front of me. Then I heard a farang behind me and I saw him push open the emergency exit door.
“I was able to breath only twice because the air was burning my nose. When I managed to get out I was standing on the wing and I saw many passengers following me.”
K. Paiboon said he waited on the wing until his boss, K. Chaowalert, and his son Jumbo had escaped.
After they had safely made it out he noticed Mr Borland, with his legs on fire. Ignoring his own bleeding head wound, K. Paiboon pulled Mr Borland out onto the wing before looking back inside for more survivors.
When he looked back, Mr Borland was gone so he assumed he had slid off the wing and fallen to the ground.
Also, Jumbo became stuck in the mud below when fell off the wing. K. Paiboon pulled the boy to safety and then went to look for the boy’s mother, who was thought to be still inside the plane.
“I called but nobody answered, then the fire trucks began to arrive and they told me to come down,” he said.
K. Paiboon said he feels better now and has been cleared to leave the hospital, but will stay for a week to receive the physical therapy he needs because it is too difficult for him to travel back and forth from home in his condition.
K. Paiboon’s mother told Gazette that her son, a former soldier, had always been a good son and liked to help other people.
PHUKET CITY: Australian Robert Borland, who was pulled from the burning wreckage of One-Two-Go Flight OG269 on Sunday by a “man in a yellow shirt”, finally had a chance to thank his savior in a meeting arranged yesterday afternoon by the staff of Bangkok Phuket Hospital, where both men are being treated for injuries sustained in the crash.
The hero was identified as Paiboon Phaphan, a 39-year-old air-conditioner mechanic and resident of Village 3, Tambon Pa Khlok, Thalang.
K. Paiboon, who suffered a back injury and walked to the meeting supported by a brace, told the Gazette in a weak voice that he was not a regular flyer and was returning from Bangkok with his boss at the time of the accident.
“I am still afraid to fly now. I think it will take some time before I will be able to fly again,” he said.
Mr Borland, 48, a 10-year resident of Phuket and a tsunami survivor, suffered a broken bone in his back and was trampled by passengers desperate to escape the burning fuselage. Thanks to K. Paiboon, he was among the last to make it out of the plane alive.
“Other people were trying to escape, and many of them were stepping over and on top of me. I was also on fire. My trousers were burning… I couldn’t get out of the aircraft, but I think there was a Thai man and he had a yellow shirt on; he dragged me through the emergency exit and onto the wing.
“Because the wing was slippery, I slid off it and fell to the ground. I was seated in the aircraft’s midsection, near the wing and the emergency exit, which was quite lucky for me,” he told the Gazette earlier.
After meeting Mr Borland, K. Paiboon recounted his own memory of the chaos. “It was raining very hard and the landing was very hard, much harder than usual, so I put my head down and braced myself against the seat in front of me,” he said.
“After we crashed with a loud bang everything went dark and a fire broke out in front of me. Then I heard a farang behind me and I saw him push open the emergency exit door.
“I was able to breath only twice because the air was burning my nose. When I managed to get out I was standing on the wing and I saw many passengers following me.”
K. Paiboon said he waited on the wing until his boss, K. Chaowalert, and his son Jumbo had escaped.
After they had safely made it out he noticed Mr Borland, with his legs on fire. Ignoring his own bleeding head wound, K. Paiboon pulled Mr Borland out onto the wing before looking back inside for more survivors.
When he looked back, Mr Borland was gone so he assumed he had slid off the wing and fallen to the ground.
Also, Jumbo became stuck in the mud below when fell off the wing. K. Paiboon pulled the boy to safety and then went to look for the boy’s mother, who was thought to be still inside the plane.
“I called but nobody answered, then the fire trucks began to arrive and they told me to come down,” he said.
K. Paiboon said he feels better now and has been cleared to leave the hospital, but will stay for a week to receive the physical therapy he needs because it is too difficult for him to travel back and forth from home in his condition.
K. Paiboon’s mother told Gazette that her son, a former soldier, had always been a good son and liked to help other people.
This guy deserves a medal.
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OK, could someone please explain to me after the 10 pages of blog what exactly happened? We all know the bits and pieces and just getting confused here. Was it a wind shear? I hardly believe that since the winds were 270/12 according to the weather report. Thunderstorm with bad vis? And how can you skid off the runway and call for Mayday at the same time. I thought Aviate,Navigate,Communicate was the thing to do...
I was in a 727 full motion sim last weekend and tried to land under the same meteorological conditions and I must say It was pretty bad vis and If something would go wrong at the time of landing I would loose control over the plane. Simple.
I was in a 727 full motion sim last weekend and tried to land under the same meteorological conditions and I must say It was pretty bad vis and If something would go wrong at the time of landing I would loose control over the plane. Simple.
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Summary, sort of...
Beaver, as far as I know (from bits and pieces): second landing attempt on rwy 27, weather much worse than 270/12 + other metar info you may pick up. Some sources say heavy rain at the time + crosswind gusts up to 30 kts. Check out the "Finnish video", which has been referred to here, for weather + else on ground minutes after the crash. Plane apparently stalled, judging from limited crash footprint on ground. Wreck reportedly showed flaps 15, no spoilers nor buckets out, gear up, so basic hardware was apparently correctly set for go-around #2.
Beaver diver;
You can run through the thread and put together what is known about the approach so far and you can examine the available photographs and various videos also available including a helicopter-view of the crash site taken on the day after the accident.
Along with examining the DFDR and CVR in Washington, this is what investigators will be doing, in part.
I know that you're asking for a "summary" and "probable cause" but in this case, unlike the TAM accident, there is little straightforward information/data to go on and so there is no basis upon which to make a summary at the moment.
We still do not know whether this was the first, second or third approach for this aircraft. I have read alternating reports on whether the gear was down or up. We don't know how low the aircraft was before going around and we don't know the speeds, the slat/flap settings or the pitch attitude. We dont' know what engine power was being developed nor do we know the angle of attack during the go-around phase and final descent. The information on all this including any information from ATC units who witnessed the accident (and which would be invaluable in putting together the accident sequence) is sparse indeed and what is available must all be treated as unreliable or at best, spotty.
From the photos we know that from the wreckage distribution there was not high forward speed, (in the order of approach speeds or possibly slightly less) and, relatively speaking, not high vertical speed on impact, (I'm comparing the wreckage pattern of the A300 in Nagoya and the BA111 super-stall wreckage pattern decades ago, both with high disintegration patterns but in relatively concentrated areas).
The question of how many died from post-impact smoke/fire and inability to egress as opposed to dying from initial impact forces is one which will assist in understanding the accident sequence once control was lost. The cabin structure was compromised but was still in two large sections, possibly making egress easier, (although we don't know the actual compromise of the cabin area which may be, though concentrated, still severe).
PJ2
PS; thanks md80forum - I didnt' realize it was approach #2 but haven't been following this as closely as the TAM thread. I concur with the comment regarding "stall" as the wreckage pattern shows all the standard characteristics of same but we don't have the data yet of course. I remain unconvinced that the weather played a pivotal role (as in the weather made the accident a near-inevitability) but will reserve judgement in favour of curiosity.
OK, could someone please explain to me after the 10 pages of blog what exactly happened?
Along with examining the DFDR and CVR in Washington, this is what investigators will be doing, in part.
I know that you're asking for a "summary" and "probable cause" but in this case, unlike the TAM accident, there is little straightforward information/data to go on and so there is no basis upon which to make a summary at the moment.
We still do not know whether this was the first, second or third approach for this aircraft. I have read alternating reports on whether the gear was down or up. We don't know how low the aircraft was before going around and we don't know the speeds, the slat/flap settings or the pitch attitude. We dont' know what engine power was being developed nor do we know the angle of attack during the go-around phase and final descent. The information on all this including any information from ATC units who witnessed the accident (and which would be invaluable in putting together the accident sequence) is sparse indeed and what is available must all be treated as unreliable or at best, spotty.
From the photos we know that from the wreckage distribution there was not high forward speed, (in the order of approach speeds or possibly slightly less) and, relatively speaking, not high vertical speed on impact, (I'm comparing the wreckage pattern of the A300 in Nagoya and the BA111 super-stall wreckage pattern decades ago, both with high disintegration patterns but in relatively concentrated areas).
The question of how many died from post-impact smoke/fire and inability to egress as opposed to dying from initial impact forces is one which will assist in understanding the accident sequence once control was lost. The cabin structure was compromised but was still in two large sections, possibly making egress easier, (although we don't know the actual compromise of the cabin area which may be, though concentrated, still severe).
PJ2
PS; thanks md80forum - I didnt' realize it was approach #2 but haven't been following this as closely as the TAM thread. I concur with the comment regarding "stall" as the wreckage pattern shows all the standard characteristics of same but we don't have the data yet of course. I remain unconvinced that the weather played a pivotal role (as in the weather made the accident a near-inevitability) but will reserve judgement in favour of curiosity.
Last edited by PJ2; 23rd Sep 2007 at 19:51. Reason: info from md80forum
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What is worth mentioning is that in Thai society age is superior to youth.
Older and more experienced people must be treated with respect.
It is highly unlikely that a very junior Thai co-pilot would have questioned the captains actions in this scenario. As a former military pilot he would command additional respect.
The Staines accident decades ago springs to mind.
Older and more experienced people must be treated with respect.
It is highly unlikely that a very junior Thai co-pilot would have questioned the captains actions in this scenario. As a former military pilot he would command additional respect.
The Staines accident decades ago springs to mind.
Phil Space;
The issue of culture and cultural differences is a very large subject of extended enquiry in flight safety arenas. Thanks for mentioning it.
North American society could certainly use a lesson from Thai society in the one aspect you mention regarding respect for experience and older members of society....I digress.
The issue of culture and cultural differences is a very large subject of extended enquiry in flight safety arenas. Thanks for mentioning it.
North American society could certainly use a lesson from Thai society in the one aspect you mention regarding respect for experience and older members of society....I digress.
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It is highly unlikely that a very junior Thai co-pilot would have questioned the captains actions in this scenario.
Trash du Blanc
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This crash reminds me of USAir at Charlotte, N.C., U.S.A. in 1994.
As I recall, there was some speculation as to the pilot suffering a somatographic illusion upon increasing throttles for go-around.
As I recall, there was some speculation as to the pilot suffering a somatographic illusion upon increasing throttles for go-around.
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Baccara Bar
Phil Space
You are right in that a young Thai pilot will never tell a Captain he is *&^%ing up. There is another aspect to this however. Even if the young Thai F/O challenged the skipper at some stage, that Indonesian Captain would never listen to him as at the time of the incident, that Captain was paranoid and the level thinking will never come back to his mind.
Another comment from another message writer was accurate. People like Namfon and Sommuit are the most useless pieces of garbage in the airline industry. They like to micro manage and will listen to nobody except sit there, drink coffee in their offices and believe they are the Kings of Aviation. They know nothing except the glory of the positions they hold. This is when death in this industry happens.
You are right in that a young Thai pilot will never tell a Captain he is *&^%ing up. There is another aspect to this however. Even if the young Thai F/O challenged the skipper at some stage, that Indonesian Captain would never listen to him as at the time of the incident, that Captain was paranoid and the level thinking will never come back to his mind.
Another comment from another message writer was accurate. People like Namfon and Sommuit are the most useless pieces of garbage in the airline industry. They like to micro manage and will listen to nobody except sit there, drink coffee in their offices and believe they are the Kings of Aviation. They know nothing except the glory of the positions they hold. This is when death in this industry happens.
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safe/unsafe Asian LCC airlines
Would it be accurate to state the following Asian LCC's MAY have questionable safety practices:
Phuket Air, Orient Thai (1-2-GO), Thai Sky, Thai Air Asia.
And the list herewith are the 'more safe' airlines?
Air Asia, NOK, Bangkok Airways, Silkair and Tiger.
As a retired Pilot who has a daughter that flies to/from Sydney and Asia I would appreciate any helpful opinions. Thanks.
Phuket Air, Orient Thai (1-2-GO), Thai Sky, Thai Air Asia.
And the list herewith are the 'more safe' airlines?
Air Asia, NOK, Bangkok Airways, Silkair and Tiger.
As a retired Pilot who has a daughter that flies to/from Sydney and Asia I would appreciate any helpful opinions. Thanks.
Last edited by heidelberg; 24th Sep 2007 at 12:32.
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"The comments on indon pilots is a low blow, some of the best(and worst) come from there.The same for every country.We are best served by directing our venom at the owners of OX type companies who will encourage dodgy operations in the interest of making a buck"
Totally agree, as someone who comes from that country, worked there for 21 years and work in Taiwan the last 12 years, seen people coming from almost every continents I couldn't disagree with you. The quality of an individual is not related to his/her color/nationality or accent.
Totally agree, as someone who comes from that country, worked there for 21 years and work in Taiwan the last 12 years, seen people coming from almost every continents I couldn't disagree with you. The quality of an individual is not related to his/her color/nationality or accent.
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This from todays Bangkok Post
Pilot given wind shear warning before crash
The pilot of the ill-fated One-Two-Go flight received a wind shear warning from the air traffic controller at Phuket airport before the airliner crashed in flames, killing 89 of those on board. Transport permanent secretary Chaisawat Kittipornpaiboon, who is heading the inquiry into the tragedy, said yesterday the pilot of another flight _ which landed at Phuket airport ahead of One-Two-Go flight 269 _ told the inquiry he had asked the control tower to pass on his warning of a microburst problem to the One-Two-Go pilot.
The control tower then relayed the warning.
Mr Chaisawat said his committee still could not say who should be held responsible for the crash, but the cause must be established quickly for future air safety.
His inquiry had gathered evidence from the crash site and information on the health of the pilots, communication between the pilots and the control tower, and the weather conditions at the time of the Sept 16 crash.
''The condition of the plane was fine and the pilots' health was also good,'' Mr Chaisawat said.
All the available information pointed to the same possible cause of the crash, he said, but declined to reveal what it was. He insisted the inquiry must wait for the report on the analysis of the information on the flight data and voice recorders now being examined in the United States.
''Although the available information all points in the same direction and should be enough, I cannot announce the cause now. Otherwise, it would be a guessing game. Data from the flight recorder is very important,'' Mr Chaisawat said.
''The decoding of the flight recorder data is proceeding well and should be finished by tomorrow,'' he said.
Pilot given wind shear warning before crash
The pilot of the ill-fated One-Two-Go flight received a wind shear warning from the air traffic controller at Phuket airport before the airliner crashed in flames, killing 89 of those on board. Transport permanent secretary Chaisawat Kittipornpaiboon, who is heading the inquiry into the tragedy, said yesterday the pilot of another flight _ which landed at Phuket airport ahead of One-Two-Go flight 269 _ told the inquiry he had asked the control tower to pass on his warning of a microburst problem to the One-Two-Go pilot.
The control tower then relayed the warning.
Mr Chaisawat said his committee still could not say who should be held responsible for the crash, but the cause must be established quickly for future air safety.
His inquiry had gathered evidence from the crash site and information on the health of the pilots, communication between the pilots and the control tower, and the weather conditions at the time of the Sept 16 crash.
''The condition of the plane was fine and the pilots' health was also good,'' Mr Chaisawat said.
All the available information pointed to the same possible cause of the crash, he said, but declined to reveal what it was. He insisted the inquiry must wait for the report on the analysis of the information on the flight data and voice recorders now being examined in the United States.
''Although the available information all points in the same direction and should be enough, I cannot announce the cause now. Otherwise, it would be a guessing game. Data from the flight recorder is very important,'' Mr Chaisawat said.
''The decoding of the flight recorder data is proceeding well and should be finished by tomorrow,'' he said.