Aer Lingus - 5
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Dublinaviator,
Firstly, I am flattered that you have read my posts across various outlets - truly I am
. However, don't you dare refer to me as having my views tainted by being a member of some ''fan club'' as you call it. In this situation, regardless of my preferences in relation to any airline - I am saying it as it is.
The reality may well be that you are a difficult passenger with Aer Lingus for example - I really don't know. What I do know is, I've flown on well over 150 sectors with EI in my lifetime to date and the service, for well over 90% of the time has been nothing but outstanding. In the past 18 months in particular, some of the EI crew have been the best industry wide cabin crew that I've ever had the pleasure of having on a flight.
You mention the hours worked - because they were supposed to - mandated by who? Should Management's (or certain sections of Management) interpretation of the LRC binding agreement always trump that of everyone else?
If you are more than happy to work under those conditions, then please do apply immediately to the company.
EI Premier
Firstly, I am flattered that you have read my posts across various outlets - truly I am
. However, don't you dare refer to me as having my views tainted by being a member of some ''fan club'' as you call it. In this situation, regardless of my preferences in relation to any airline - I am saying it as it is.The reality may well be that you are a difficult passenger with Aer Lingus for example - I really don't know. What I do know is, I've flown on well over 150 sectors with EI in my lifetime to date and the service, for well over 90% of the time has been nothing but outstanding. In the past 18 months in particular, some of the EI crew have been the best industry wide cabin crew that I've ever had the pleasure of having on a flight.
You mention the hours worked - because they were supposed to - mandated by who? Should Management's (or certain sections of Management) interpretation of the LRC binding agreement always trump that of everyone else?
If you are more than happy to work under those conditions, then please do apply immediately to the company.
EI Premier
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EI Premier
I am sorry to say that I agree with dublinaviator, and I too have read your posts on a.net and flyer talk as well. How dare anyone say anything bad about your beloved lingus and your in like a shot to defend the airline and its reputation.
I fly EI. The main reason is that they are better than FR, but not by much. As for my TA trips, I generally fly across the pond twice a year. The service can be very much hit and miss. More miss than hit to be honest. The chief dragon wagon still exists in the company and how dare you question them in any regard, this filters down the line within the company.
With a username like yours, I would expect you to do nothing less than defend the company and even now i would not expect you to back down. However, take a flight in economy with someone like Cathy, Eithiad, and of the asian pacific carriers and then come back and tell me about the great service from EI.
I am sorry to say that I agree with dublinaviator, and I too have read your posts on a.net and flyer talk as well. How dare anyone say anything bad about your beloved lingus and your in like a shot to defend the airline and its reputation.
I fly EI. The main reason is that they are better than FR, but not by much. As for my TA trips, I generally fly across the pond twice a year. The service can be very much hit and miss. More miss than hit to be honest. The chief dragon wagon still exists in the company and how dare you question them in any regard, this filters down the line within the company.
With a username like yours, I would expect you to do nothing less than defend the company and even now i would not expect you to back down. However, take a flight in economy with someone like Cathy, Eithiad, and of the asian pacific carriers and then come back and tell me about the great service from EI.
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Airbourne,
You are entitled to your opinion as much as you like. I don't need to make comparisons with Y on other carriers - I've done that already several times. On TA runs, EI are consistently the best ex DUB in my experience.
Again - I ask you - would you accept what's being imposed, despite the recommendations of the LRC? It's so easy to judge from afar as a passenger isn't it? Do try working under those conditions though..
Certainly, I seem to have quite the fan club here - it's really quite nice indeed.
People seem to think it's fine to wish ill will upon a group of employees. But you wouldn't work a 50-60 hour week with no meal breaks would you - week after week?
If I'm defending in EI - as you claim I am with my 'beloved lingus' then why am I criticising their HR function and the way it's handling all of this? I'm pointing out the situation as it is.
I'm completely entitled to my opinion also as to the quality of EI onboard service and the crew. YES - there are some bad crew in the company, entrenched and want to work the bare minimum - but there are also so many hard working crew who only want to be treated fairly and want a positive environment in which to work.
This is very damaging for EI - if not resolved soon it will impact forward bookings.
As for this thread - I don't know what is more incredulous - the fact that every post I make everywhere is scrutinised or the fact that such nastiness is acceptable.
Those who want to push this into a quality of EI service issue are detracting from the issue at hand - not to mention the fact that any service involves customer interaction - but of course certain EI customers on this thread could never be wrong.
As I said previously, if you think the terms are so good, then do apply to EI for such a position.
EI Premier - who won't be posting elsewhere tonight FYI!
You are entitled to your opinion as much as you like. I don't need to make comparisons with Y on other carriers - I've done that already several times. On TA runs, EI are consistently the best ex DUB in my experience.
Again - I ask you - would you accept what's being imposed, despite the recommendations of the LRC? It's so easy to judge from afar as a passenger isn't it? Do try working under those conditions though..
Certainly, I seem to have quite the fan club here - it's really quite nice indeed.
People seem to think it's fine to wish ill will upon a group of employees. But you wouldn't work a 50-60 hour week with no meal breaks would you - week after week?
If I'm defending in EI - as you claim I am with my 'beloved lingus' then why am I criticising their HR function and the way it's handling all of this? I'm pointing out the situation as it is.
I'm completely entitled to my opinion also as to the quality of EI onboard service and the crew. YES - there are some bad crew in the company, entrenched and want to work the bare minimum - but there are also so many hard working crew who only want to be treated fairly and want a positive environment in which to work.
This is very damaging for EI - if not resolved soon it will impact forward bookings.
As for this thread - I don't know what is more incredulous - the fact that every post I make everywhere is scrutinised or the fact that such nastiness is acceptable.
Those who want to push this into a quality of EI service issue are detracting from the issue at hand - not to mention the fact that any service involves customer interaction - but of course certain EI customers on this thread could never be wrong.
As I said previously, if you think the terms are so good, then do apply to EI for such a position.
EI Premier - who won't be posting elsewhere tonight FYI!
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EI Premier
Please list the Cabin Crew duties that are 4AM starts.
The cabin crew appear to insist on meal breaks on the ground, lengthening turnarounds, while the company seem to want them to take their breaks in the air. Is this correct?
"A 50-60 hour week"...."week after week" would be 200-240 hours in 28 days wouldn't it?
I've heard a lot of nonsense and misinformation regarding this dispute. Can anyone succinctly spell it out what exactly the issues are please?
Would you be prepared to work a 12 hour day without a proper meal break? Would you be prepared to work six days of rostered work at 4AM starts, without any proper meal breaks each day, have one day off and then do a Transatlantic run
The cabin crew appear to insist on meal breaks on the ground, lengthening turnarounds, while the company seem to want them to take their breaks in the air. Is this correct?
But you wouldn't work a 50-60 hour week with no meal breaks would you - week after week?
I've heard a lot of nonsense and misinformation regarding this dispute. Can anyone succinctly spell it out what exactly the issues are please?
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Just to briefly clarify - by 4AM starts I mean getting up at that time each day - with reporting time at the airport being perhaps 90 minutes thereafter.
I was referring to a series of such consecutive days followed by minimal time off, and a rostered longhaul - all in the context of the isse of meal breaks.
If more information is necessary then more in-depth details are being published elsewhere.
EI Premier
I was referring to a series of such consecutive days followed by minimal time off, and a rostered longhaul - all in the context of the isse of meal breaks.
If more information is necessary then more in-depth details are being published elsewhere.
EI Premier
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Earliest departure is amsterdam 0600 so report is 1hr before - to be at the cabin crew reporting area, not at the staff car park 20mins walk away, whatever the weather! So thats at the airport vicinity by 0440. Depending on where you live and whether you wish to turn up for work in your pj's you need to be getting up at around 0330.
This flight is followed by the Paris and finishes at around 1530 with post flight duties....then the long walk to the carpark!
in all, around 10.5 hrs of duty for around 6 hrs of flight duty. these are busy flights with no opportunity for a meal break in the air.
Just an example......
This flight is followed by the Paris and finishes at around 1530 with post flight duties....then the long walk to the carpark!
in all, around 10.5 hrs of duty for around 6 hrs of flight duty. these are busy flights with no opportunity for a meal break in the air.
Just an example......
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While I understand that cabin crew is often a difficult and thankless job it is still a job.i can't comment on ei long haul because i haven't flown it in five years.out of heathrow to dub and snn they are fine.
ryanair have changed the nature of the role of cc and it is now part of the service industry meaning a high turnover of staff and fairly low wages.as others have said there will be no government bailout for ei if they fail to manage their costs during this downturn.
ryanair have changed the nature of the role of cc and it is now part of the service industry meaning a high turnover of staff and fairly low wages.as others have said there will be no government bailout for ei if they fail to manage their costs during this downturn.
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Quote:
But you wouldn't work a 50-60 hour week with no meal breaks would you - week after week?
Seems to work ok for Ryanair pilots and crew and they dont get the 'meal tray' into the flight deck during ops.
EI Prem, the more I look at your posts, the more you look like one of those bitter dragon wagons from the 80s who would turn you to stone if you looked at them. You say you give out about HR, well thats no surprise, everyone gives out about HR. HR give out about HR!!!
Times are a changing, if cc, and pilots, and the rest of the staff dont like it, then go an do something else. The current EI is a distant shadow of its former self, and the industry as a whole has changed a great deal. This is the new airline industry, and whether you like it or not, its here to stay. I suggest you and your EI friends get used to it before there is no EI to get used to!!
But you wouldn't work a 50-60 hour week with no meal breaks would you - week after week?
Seems to work ok for Ryanair pilots and crew and they dont get the 'meal tray' into the flight deck during ops.
EI Prem, the more I look at your posts, the more you look like one of those bitter dragon wagons from the 80s who would turn you to stone if you looked at them. You say you give out about HR, well thats no surprise, everyone gives out about HR. HR give out about HR!!!
Times are a changing, if cc, and pilots, and the rest of the staff dont like it, then go an do something else. The current EI is a distant shadow of its former self, and the industry as a whole has changed a great deal. This is the new airline industry, and whether you like it or not, its here to stay. I suggest you and your EI friends get used to it before there is no EI to get used to!!
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Originally Posted by EI Premier
Just to briefly clarify - by 4AM starts I mean getting up at that time each day - with reporting time at the airport being perhaps 90 minutes thereafter.
I was referring to a series of such consecutive days followed by minimal time off, and a rostered longhaul - all in the context of the isse of meal breaks.
I was referring to a series of such consecutive days followed by minimal time off, and a rostered longhaul - all in the context of the isse of meal breaks.
And don't give me this bull**** of "if the conditions are so great, why don't you apply". I've no desire to be CC, and not even the best pay in the world would make me want to be, but trust me there are plenty of people in this country who would. In particular, I'm sure if you asked any number of the 500,000 people in this country with no job, there'd be more than enough to fill the shows of the current CC in Aer Lingus.
CC might have been able to get away with this crap in the good times, but they won't get any public sympathy now, not when so many people are out of work and facing savage cuts this December, and every December for the next 4 years.
Originally Posted by jbloggs
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Well Said EI Premier
I have been impressed by the knowledge EI Premier has shown about the airline industry and EI in particular.
It is very obvious that he/she uses EI a lot and knows the product backwards, especially T/A.
As a passenger who travels T/A with EI myself, at least 3/4 per year, I would have to agree that generally the Cabin Crew are excellent and on a par with any major airline.
I wonder do those who rant here about the service, actually use it on a regular basis, if at all.
As has been said before EI have won several awards for their cabin service.
Reading some of these posts, it amazes me that some people never have a good word for EI, They remind me of those people I spoke with in Chicago recently who still think Obama is a Muslim and a Nazi, No point in trying to get them to change their negative views, backwoodsmen all.
I nor anyone in my family work in/for EI.
Keep up the informative and balanced posts EI Premier, don't be put of by a few cranks.!
It is very obvious that he/she uses EI a lot and knows the product backwards, especially T/A.
As a passenger who travels T/A with EI myself, at least 3/4 per year, I would have to agree that generally the Cabin Crew are excellent and on a par with any major airline.
I wonder do those who rant here about the service, actually use it on a regular basis, if at all.
As has been said before EI have won several awards for their cabin service.
Reading some of these posts, it amazes me that some people never have a good word for EI, They remind me of those people I spoke with in Chicago recently who still think Obama is a Muslim and a Nazi, No point in trying to get them to change their negative views, backwoodsmen all.
I nor anyone in my family work in/for EI.
Keep up the informative and balanced posts EI Premier, don't be put of by a few cranks.!
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[QUOTE]I have been impressed by the knowledge EI Premier has shown about the airline industry and EI in particular[QUOTE]
I agree.
I flew from JFK with EIN two nights ago. I found the F/A's helpful pleasant and altogether a very positive experience.
I agree.
I flew from JFK with EIN two nights ago. I found the F/A's helpful pleasant and altogether a very positive experience.
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Originally Posted by EI-AAA
Reading some of these posts, it amazes me that some people never have a good word for EI, They remind me of those people I spoke with in Chicago recently who still think Obama is a Muslim and a Nazi, No point in trying to get them to change their negative views, backwoodsmen all.
Get off your high horse...
And this isn't just about the service standards of Aer Lingus CC, its also about the arrogance of them. That despite the cuts every other part of the airline has had to agree to, CC think they're above everyone else and refuse to get on board with the greenfield programme. CC should cop themselves on and realise the times we're in, and just how good they have it.
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As a frequent traveler, I have to say that its always a pleasure flying with Aer Lingus. I always find the cabin crew very friendly. Ditto for the Ryanair crew I meet flying within and to/from Ireland. Flying to the US with Aer Lingus for me is way better than flying with the US carriers where most of the cabin crew seem to be approaching retirement
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Do you realise how many people have to to be up at 4AM every morning up and down the country just to get to work on time?
And don't give me this bull**** of "if the conditions are so great, why don't you apply". I've no desire to be CC, and not even the best pay in the world would make me want to be, but trust me there are plenty of people in this country who would. In particular, I'm sure if you asked any number of the 500,000 people in this country with no job, there'd be more than enough to fill the shows of the current CC in Aer Lingus.
CC might have been able to get away with this crap in the good times, but they won't get any public sympathy now, not when so many people are out of work and facing savage cuts this December, and every December for the next 4 years.
And don't give me this bull**** of "if the conditions are so great, why don't you apply". I've no desire to be CC, and not even the best pay in the world would make me want to be, but trust me there are plenty of people in this country who would. In particular, I'm sure if you asked any number of the 500,000 people in this country with no job, there'd be more than enough to fill the shows of the current CC in Aer Lingus.
CC might have been able to get away with this crap in the good times, but they won't get any public sympathy now, not when so many people are out of work and facing savage cuts this December, and every December for the next 4 years.
I'm well aware of what hours those people have to do - but are they beginning from 4AM for six days a week - with one day off and then tansitioning straight to another timezone, followed by a completely inverted working pattern the following evening - working right through the night?
The 500,000 people who are extremely unfortunate to be out of work now would also be very willing to fill other roles were they available - so please don't spin this as a one-for-one issue directly in terms of EI.
The fiscal situation and the necessary fiscal re-adjustment affects every single company operating in this country - not just Aer Lingus. It also affects every single employee. Just what ''crap'' do you feel Aer Lingus cabin crew are getting away with?
I have been impressed by the knowledge EI Premier has shown about the airline industry and EI in particular.
Get off your high horse...
And this isn't just about the service standards of Aer Lingus CC, its also about the arrogance of them. That despite the cuts every other part of the airline has had to agree to, CC think they're above everyone else and refuse to get on board with the greenfield programme. CC should cop themselves on and realise the times we're in, and just how good they have it.
And this isn't just about the service standards of Aer Lingus CC, its also about the arrogance of them. That despite the cuts every other part of the airline has had to agree to, CC think they're above everyone else and refuse to get on board with the greenfield programme. CC should cop themselves on and realise the times we're in, and just how good they have it.
How, on earth do Cabin crew think that they are above everyone else? Are you completely oblivious to the multiple cost reduction programs that they have signed up for in the past three years? Several have lost five figure sums from their total remuneration packages - salary and benefits combined. At the same time, they have significantly increased their productivity and have signed up for greatly reduced staff levels onboard - notably on TA operations.
The vast majority of the cabin crew do appreciate their position. I'm blue in the face from saying this - yes, there are a small cohort of entrenched crew who will object to everything, but they ARE in the minority.
EI-AAA's point on trying to change people's views is quite correct - that won't happen. However, I would appreciate it if you would take a more balanced approach to this issue - rather than cutting down and besmirching the reputation of EI cabin crew at every turn.
Equally - there is no need for an abrupt nasty tone in your posts. We are all on here because of a common shared interest in aviation.
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EI Prem, the more I look at your posts, the more you look like one of those bitter dragon wagons from the 80s who would turn you to stone if you looked at them. You say you give out about HR, well thats no surprise, everyone gives out about HR. HR give out about HR!!!
However - the above comment is quite disgraceful really. It does in many ways however show how flawed your perception is. Considering that I wasn't even born in the 1980's, I could hardly be one of the ''dragon wagons'' that you refer to - then again, it's just another disrespectful term.
Finally, please don't lecture me on the ''new reality'' either in broad economic terms or in relation to the aviation industry - I am more than well aware of it and the current economic environment.
You obviously have limited or no knowledge on the financial performance of EI either and can be added to the long list of previous forecasters who envisioned a rapid demise for Aer Lingus.
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I notice that the Washington-Madrid-Washington flight is still operating normally. Does this mean that EI CC have ignored the union's instructions or are non-EI CC doing the job instead?
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Originally Posted by EI Premier
Your level of arrogance and disrespect on this forum is simply uncalled for.
Originally Posted by EI Premier
I'm well aware of what hours those people have to do - but are they beginning from 4AM for six days a week - with one day off and then tansitioning straight to another timezone, followed by a completely inverted working pattern the following evening - working right through the night?
Originally Posted by EI Premier
The 500,000 people who are extremely unfortunate to be out of work now would also be very willing to fill other roles were they available - so please don't spin this as a one-for-one issue directly in terms of EI.
The fiscal situation and the necessary fiscal re-adjustment affects every single company operating in this country - not just Aer Lingus. It also affects every single employee.
The fiscal situation and the necessary fiscal re-adjustment affects every single company operating in this country - not just Aer Lingus. It also affects every single employee.
Originally Posted by EI Premier
Just what ''crap'' do you feel Aer Lingus cabin crew are getting away with?
Originally Posted by EI Premier
I'm afraid the only person on a ''high horse'' here is yourself.
Originally Posted by EI Premier
How, on earth do Cabin crew think that they are above everyone else? Are you completely oblivious to the multiple cost reduction programs that they have signed up for in the past three years? Several have lost five figure sums from their total remuneration packages - salary and benefits combined. At the same time, they have significantly increased their productivity and have signed up for greatly reduced staff levels onboard - notably on TA operations.
Originally Posted by EI Premier
EI-AAA's point on trying to change people's views is quite correct - that won't happen. However, I would appreciate it if you would take a more balanced approach to this issue - rather than cutting down and besmirching the reputation of EI cabin crew at every turn.
Originally Posted by EI Premier
However - the above comment is quite disgraceful really.
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I'm the arrogant one? lol You're the one lecturing people on this forum as if you're some know-it-all, and you're the one accusing people of being disrespectful just because they choose to take a different view than yourself. Whatever about your own experiences, that has no bearing on my own experiences which haven't been great, and judging by other posts on this forum, I'm clearly not the only one. And from talking to people who work with another airline, theres also a perception within the industry itself of how arrogant and stuck-up the Aer Lingus CC are, so its not just limited to "disgruntled" passengers as you put it.
You obviously dislike Aer Lingus cabin crew - for some inexplicable reason. Whilst I am far from a ''know-it-all'' as you state, I haven't done too badly to date shall we say - so I'll take your comment in a positive light
Judging by other posts on the forum - clearly there are other people who have had an excellent experience with Aer Lingus crew, so your point is entirely irrelevant. Have you ever considered that the people you have spoken with may well be the ''stuck up ones''? What about certain sections of ground staff in DUB for example who continually seem to have a down on EI - no matter what the situation.
And I'm afraid you need to go work on your comebacks.
Did other sections of Aer Lingus not have to sign up for those same cost reduction programmes? Yet they've also agreed to the Greenfield programme. Even pilots have taken cuts.
That wasn't EI-AAA's point. EI-AAA's point was that if you dare disagree with the ALFC, you are a "backwoodsman", which is nothing short of snobbery and arrogance.
Here we go again, someone disagrees with you and they're "disgraceful"...
Perhaps though, you find such commentary quite acceptable.
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Children,Children , please take a St Johns Wort and calm down. As someone who works in aviation on the ground and deals with crew and passengers alike, I have to say you cant judge an airline on your experience with a handfull of crew on one or two flights, but what I will say is that different airlines take on an idendity of there own based purely on how you are recieved by the chaps in the flight deck and the guys behind the curtain. The same can also be said for the profile of passengers, as for exampple the type of passenger that goes to FARO is on the whole not going to be of the same social and economic background as someone travelling to CORFU, ie the CFU pax is more like to have SKYHD than the FAO pax who listens to lovely Pat on the radio in the morning on the way to Arnots.
So what am i saying, Im saying that comparing EI with FR and comparing EI with SQ is pointless as they serve different markets and are different beasts. You cant say that Monkeys and Gorrillas are the same just because they look the same, airlines might be the same, fly to the same places at the same times with the same aircraft but no two are the same, and you need to remember that.
So what am i saying, Im saying that comparing EI with FR and comparing EI with SQ is pointless as they serve different markets and are different beasts. You cant say that Monkeys and Gorrillas are the same just because they look the same, airlines might be the same, fly to the same places at the same times with the same aircraft but no two are the same, and you need to remember that.