Aer Lingus - 5
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ATR's well that means Air Aran, are Air Aran really going to be doing work for AerLingus??? shurely it could only be UK stuff?? Or are they getting rid of the DUB-SNN hops in the 330?
Well (going way out on a speculative limb here) ...
from a purely business perspective, assuming RE staff are paid less than their EI counterparts, and perhaps are more productive (if that can be measured in any reliable way), it could make sense for EI to take a minority stake in RE and then wetlease RE to operate certain shorter haul flights with the ATR's in EI livery that would otherwise be overkill to deploy a 320 onto.
It would also provide for a platform to test new routes using ATR's out of Gatwick before deploying 320's (or similar) onto them.
In the current tough times for Ireland, it could be a good arrangement for both airlines if EI can survive the unions throwing their toys out of the pram. Just a thought.
JAS
from a purely business perspective, assuming RE staff are paid less than their EI counterparts, and perhaps are more productive (if that can be measured in any reliable way), it could make sense for EI to take a minority stake in RE and then wetlease RE to operate certain shorter haul flights with the ATR's in EI livery that would otherwise be overkill to deploy a 320 onto.
It would also provide for a platform to test new routes using ATR's out of Gatwick before deploying 320's (or similar) onto them.
In the current tough times for Ireland, it could be a good arrangement for both airlines if EI can survive the unions throwing their toys out of the pram. Just a thought.
JAS
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Think the figure is 7 ATR'S to be based in DUB as of March. Would imagine there will be a small EI livery next to the rear door, The IAA are sticky about things like that. Operating mostly UK routes yes.
Happy Christmas.
CP.
PS meggriffin don't get ratty, a simple search on google would give you the correct spelling of Aer Arann
Happy Christmas.
CP.
PS meggriffin don't get ratty, a simple search on google would give you the correct spelling of Aer Arann
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it could be a good arrangement for both airlines if EI can survive the unions throwing their toys out of the pram. Just a thought.
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Arann link Up
Yes LG, Aer Arann have taken delievery of an Ex AirWales 42 in recent days. A good rumour is that they are to get two newish 72's ex Alitalia. 7 aircraft to be based in Dublin would be massive expansion, as they have only 11 in the entire fleet including the recent 42. Merry Christmas to all!
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whats your source captain planet, I dont think the unions in Aer Lingus would be too happy with that arrangement, what with parking up 330's and now using ATR's where would all the pilots go???
Maybe they would be re-trained on the ATR.
Maybe they would be re-trained on the ATR.
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Re-training?
Have you any idea how much that would cost? And it wouldn't be re-training, it would be a new TR for all EI crew, so in other words not going to happen!! Wet lease from Arann operating for EI. Source very good but will not divulge. Arann only have 1 a/c in WAT, 2 in GWY and one in CRK. So there's the maths done. Heard rumours of a few new 500's too around March/ April and EI-EHH is the bus from Wales.
CP.
Have you any idea how much that would cost? And it wouldn't be re-training, it would be a new TR for all EI crew, so in other words not going to happen!! Wet lease from Arann operating for EI. Source very good but will not divulge. Arann only have 1 a/c in WAT, 2 in GWY and one in CRK. So there's the maths done. Heard rumours of a few new 500's too around March/ April and EI-EHH is the bus from Wales.
CP.
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and a 500 based in IOM.
Summer flying in the past few years, which has done well especially French routes ex ORK, has required 2 ORK based and 3 GWY based units.
Interesting to see how this develops..
As an aside I'd guess there are around 20 guys in EI with ATR experience, maybe more
Summer flying in the past few years, which has done well especially French routes ex ORK, has required 2 ORK based and 3 GWY based units.
Interesting to see how this develops..
As an aside I'd guess there are around 20 guys in EI with ATR experience, maybe more
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ATR's
Captain Planet
Are we talking about BHX & MAN Dublin here? Could understand
BHX & MAN Cork running double daily as an ATR.
These services average around 135 per flight and would require
between 6 and 8 flights a day by Arann.
Obviously there is little point getting 135 pax per flight if you are
not making money but would it not require a fare restructure if
you are only offering 66-70 seats per flight and will that work?
By the way BHX - DUB - BHX February fare is nil & taxes £40 and
the same flights in May also nil but taxes £55. Is there another
increase in Irish taxes (the BHX-DUB stays at £19.99) or is this
a summer tax?
Not checked Ryanair to see if it is the same.
Pete
Are we talking about BHX & MAN Dublin here? Could understand
BHX & MAN Cork running double daily as an ATR.
These services average around 135 per flight and would require
between 6 and 8 flights a day by Arann.
Obviously there is little point getting 135 pax per flight if you are
not making money but would it not require a fare restructure if
you are only offering 66-70 seats per flight and will that work?
By the way BHX - DUB - BHX February fare is nil & taxes £40 and
the same flights in May also nil but taxes £55. Is there another
increase in Irish taxes (the BHX-DUB stays at £19.99) or is this
a summer tax?
Not checked Ryanair to see if it is the same.
Pete
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Routes for Props
I read with interest the rumour that EI will use props ie Aer Arann wet lease. I cant see BHX or MAN being operated by ATRs. I would bet strongly that EI would not use ATR on
DUB to BHX/LGW/MAN/LHR but yes on GLA/EDI and perhaps JER in summer.
Aer Lingus cannot capture the business mans needs on a daily rotation case in mind EDI/GLA to DUB.
Moreover, with T2 opening & the transatlantic routes in ribbons, surely the idea would be to use an ATR to give EI the ability to serve the likes of LPL, DSA, LBA and a few other regionals, particularly the Ryanair destinations that are daily eg BOU, ABZ(not as freqently as daily) and do double daily.
If EI got after the UK regions to US traffic in a serious way that in conjunction with T2 offering there is potetial to feed good pax into US network , similar to what KLM do with AMS hub, and I believe that Uk to US via Dublin is an easier sell than via AMS???
I am thinking back to routes that EI did with F50 from DUB or indeed 146..
(not complete schedule but some or all of the flights at least)..
BRU/DUS/RNS/JER/BRS/LPL/NCL/LBA..
On the face of it looks like a good idea, perhaps RE could look at developing routes ex LDY/NOC/SNN where Ryanair would deem a 738 too big for same markets. Also would a the wet lease arrangement lead to EI Selling seats via their website on existing routes...
Eg DUB/IOM, DUB/BLK, DUB/CWL, DUB regional routes???
EI-BUD
DUB to BHX/LGW/MAN/LHR but yes on GLA/EDI and perhaps JER in summer.
Aer Lingus cannot capture the business mans needs on a daily rotation case in mind EDI/GLA to DUB.
Moreover, with T2 opening & the transatlantic routes in ribbons, surely the idea would be to use an ATR to give EI the ability to serve the likes of LPL, DSA, LBA and a few other regionals, particularly the Ryanair destinations that are daily eg BOU, ABZ(not as freqently as daily) and do double daily.
If EI got after the UK regions to US traffic in a serious way that in conjunction with T2 offering there is potetial to feed good pax into US network , similar to what KLM do with AMS hub, and I believe that Uk to US via Dublin is an easier sell than via AMS???
I am thinking back to routes that EI did with F50 from DUB or indeed 146..
(not complete schedule but some or all of the flights at least)..
BRU/DUS/RNS/JER/BRS/LPL/NCL/LBA..
On the face of it looks like a good idea, perhaps RE could look at developing routes ex LDY/NOC/SNN where Ryanair would deem a 738 too big for same markets. Also would a the wet lease arrangement lead to EI Selling seats via their website on existing routes...
Eg DUB/IOM, DUB/BLK, DUB/CWL, DUB regional routes???
EI-BUD
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Won't the crews be made up of the FD crew that were made redundant last year, plus the others that they had waiting to start TR's?
According to Jethros they still have yet to take delivery of 3 new 500's in 2010. Does anyone know if this is still the case?
Lots of rumour for the moment. Hopefully there it will be confirmed in the new year.
According to Jethros they still have yet to take delivery of 3 new 500's in 2010. Does anyone know if this is still the case?
Lots of rumour for the moment. Hopefully there it will be confirmed in the new year.
Last edited by DeA320; 26th Dec 2009 at 13:55.
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think many people have known that for at least three weeks Daz. Mueller told the staff 3 weeks ago about hearing that investment bankers were already making their next bid for EI on behalf of FR on 28/29 January. and even if this bid fails I can't imagine MO'L giving up. He'll just wait til he's allowed again.
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Ryanair began preparing their bid weeks ago. Not that it was unexpected, Aer Lingus began the preparation of their defence of the hostile takeover bid around the same time, shortly after Mueller became CEO. It's amusing seeing Ryanair deny that they want to make a new bid whilst at the same time those in the know in the financial sector know exactly what's going on behind the scenes.
Not alot has changed in terms of their previous bid last year. Privately I'm led to believe that the Government have indicated they are not for selling. Publicaly of course they have to go through the motions and say they will discuss it when the formal bid is made. ESOT, Tailwind et all not for swaying either. It's quite likely that other shareholders will allow a year to see what the latest restructuring measures, soon to be finalised will bring next year. They have very little to lose at the current share price. Whatever about the Shareholding, the key to them being succesful will be the Government, as it will have a major impact on the eventual ruling should it make it that far by the EU Commission. Like I said above I'm led to believe they won't budge.
Note the timing of the soon to be announced tie up with Aer Arann and remember the Government position on Aviation policy. The tie up allows both airlines access to Domestic, European and American markets through various code shares. The Government Aviation policy again rings in my head and their position on a one airline monopoly. I'm also led to believe that that should the Government fall the main opposition parties have also stated their positions privately to a one airline monopoly in the country. I can't help but thinking Ryanair should have delayed their argument, justified or not with Shannon airport until after they made their official bid. T2 to be opened later in 2010 and their postion on not using it won't help their cause either, again with justification or not.
Not alot has changed in terms of their previous bid last year. Privately I'm led to believe that the Government have indicated they are not for selling. Publicaly of course they have to go through the motions and say they will discuss it when the formal bid is made. ESOT, Tailwind et all not for swaying either. It's quite likely that other shareholders will allow a year to see what the latest restructuring measures, soon to be finalised will bring next year. They have very little to lose at the current share price. Whatever about the Shareholding, the key to them being succesful will be the Government, as it will have a major impact on the eventual ruling should it make it that far by the EU Commission. Like I said above I'm led to believe they won't budge.
Note the timing of the soon to be announced tie up with Aer Arann and remember the Government position on Aviation policy. The tie up allows both airlines access to Domestic, European and American markets through various code shares. The Government Aviation policy again rings in my head and their position on a one airline monopoly. I'm also led to believe that that should the Government fall the main opposition parties have also stated their positions privately to a one airline monopoly in the country. I can't help but thinking Ryanair should have delayed their argument, justified or not with Shannon airport until after they made their official bid. T2 to be opened later in 2010 and their postion on not using it won't help their cause either, again with justification or not.
Last edited by Lord Lardy; 26th Dec 2009 at 21:37.