Alitalia (Merged)
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Hussar 54: no nationalization of alitalia will happen. Source: minister of economics today.
A further step contrary to that would either prove to anyone what a talking puppett he is, or his dimissions. Personally I'd be delighted by either scenarios.
A further step contrary to that would either prove to anyone what a talking puppett he is, or his dimissions. Personally I'd be delighted by either scenarios.
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Daniel, be patient with Dysag, he's from southwest, anybody know the politicians they make there are so good that they also export to northwest and sometime to southeast.
Dysag: enjoy your wikipedia daily fix too:
Sandro Pertini - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Dysag: enjoy your wikipedia daily fix too:
Sandro Pertini - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Join Date: Mar 2001
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A Drop In The Ocean
Re: the cost of subsidies to Alitalia it's a drop in the ocean compared to the billions being pumped into banking to support a load of fat cat bankers on million pound bonuses. So far the British government has pumped £36 billion into Northern rock and another £50billion into the money markets into the last two days.
You could sort out the NHS, save every airline on the planet, put a man on Mars and probably cure famine in Africa for that kind of dosh and all we've got to show for it is a bunch of spivs in braces still in highly remunerative work!
Desk-pilot
You could sort out the NHS, save every airline on the planet, put a man on Mars and probably cure famine in Africa for that kind of dosh and all we've got to show for it is a bunch of spivs in braces still in highly remunerative work!
Desk-pilot
Bailing out Alitalia and Banks are completely different issues. If AZ goes, the damage is not contagious: if a Bank goes, then the fear of another Bank going (even a sound one) means the disease spreads, so you have to do something as otherwise the whole payments system goes.
Shareholders in Fanny Mae, Freddy MAc, Bear Stearns, Lehman etc have taken a huge hit, if not lost everything. That's as it should be. Let's hope the fat-cats at the top also take a hit in terms of lost bonuses. But does anyone really want depositors (that's you and me, folks) to take a hit? I think not, so you have to mount a rescue, bailout or whatever.
Shareholders in Fanny Mae, Freddy MAc, Bear Stearns, Lehman etc have taken a huge hit, if not lost everything. That's as it should be. Let's hope the fat-cats at the top also take a hit in terms of lost bonuses. But does anyone really want depositors (that's you and me, folks) to take a hit? I think not, so you have to mount a rescue, bailout or whatever.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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What a sad sad sitation for all.
I dont work for Alitalia, and I'm not currently involved in events taking place in Italy, but I've been where you guys are all about to go when my airline tanked, and know first hand what it's like. At this stage I dont think it's particularly important to dwell on how you all landed in this situation - be it management greed, union greed, inflexible work practices or corrupt politicians, (I personally believe it's all four). When you're losing three million a day, it's now utterly irrelevant. What's important is what you all do now, while you have time to make choices. This is not a game, or a last-minute management trick. The latest rescue deal offered to the company seemed fairly generous in my mind - a loss of 3,000 or so staff out of (how many? - 19,000) and lower wages. What an offer. I've noticed some crew mention here that they see no point in working longer hours for less money, when "market price" is above what's on offer. True, the offer might see you on less than some of your colleagues working at other carriers, but then again - their carriers aren't two billion in the red.
I ask - would you rather agree to work with the company on finding a way out of this mess, or out of pride - play the blame game, until it's too late?
Take my advice friends. Help yourselves while you still have time, because I believe you're just about out of it. My thoughts are with all nineteen thousand of you.
I dont work for Alitalia, and I'm not currently involved in events taking place in Italy, but I've been where you guys are all about to go when my airline tanked, and know first hand what it's like. At this stage I dont think it's particularly important to dwell on how you all landed in this situation - be it management greed, union greed, inflexible work practices or corrupt politicians, (I personally believe it's all four). When you're losing three million a day, it's now utterly irrelevant. What's important is what you all do now, while you have time to make choices. This is not a game, or a last-minute management trick. The latest rescue deal offered to the company seemed fairly generous in my mind - a loss of 3,000 or so staff out of (how many? - 19,000) and lower wages. What an offer. I've noticed some crew mention here that they see no point in working longer hours for less money, when "market price" is above what's on offer. True, the offer might see you on less than some of your colleagues working at other carriers, but then again - their carriers aren't two billion in the red.
I ask - would you rather agree to work with the company on finding a way out of this mess, or out of pride - play the blame game, until it's too late?
Take my advice friends. Help yourselves while you still have time, because I believe you're just about out of it. My thoughts are with all nineteen thousand of you.
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Isn't it usually easier to get a new job from a position of employment (apart from the logistical difficulties of arranging the interviews etc) rather than from a pool of potential competing candidates?
So take the shilling, and if you don't like the terms - bale out (been there done that . . . I opted for leaving after surviving the cull).
So take the shilling, and if you don't like the terms - bale out (been there done that . . . I opted for leaving after surviving the cull).
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Is this a thread about Alitalia or a bushing thread about what the English think about Italy or Italians?
Let me say that AZ deserves to be buried, but please stop such silly comments that Italians are taking the money form the English coffers to subside AZ.
We still have some proud left!
We are not stealing anything from you good and best looking guys, it is a an internal problem of Italy and therefore switch on your brain before accusing a country of stealing your money.
Thanks
Let me say that AZ deserves to be buried, but please stop such silly comments that Italians are taking the money form the English coffers to subside AZ.
We still have some proud left!
We are not stealing anything from you good and best looking guys, it is a an internal problem of Italy and therefore switch on your brain before accusing a country of stealing your money.
Thanks
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Direct VTB,
How about a triple first on Instrument rating( some of you take 7 attempts- should you really be at the pointy end?), all exams passed first time, did my IR test with that great examiner, Alan Calder at Leeds on a rockwell 114a GT, told him after take off that the two VOR receivers were out 5 degress so made an executive decision, to ignore one and use the other- he liked that. Passed-- only the day I passed the group flogged G-Natt and bought G-Roar C401, so I had to upgrade to a twin, passed first time- AGAIN even though Exam-17 was sent all over the place owing to inbound commercials at LBA. Who taught me ? John Dale, the best IR instructor in the business..bar none at all ..ever. His other job is ATC at EGCC, I remember coming back one day during training and the obviously inexperienced controller had set up the ILS intercept without considering the very strong wind-- we would have never got the localiser. I said shall I tell her-- he said no-- they've got to learn somehow, she made a 767 to a 360 turn behind me. Lots of the bods in GA at EGCC said I am a natural, but I could see the writing on the wall even then- wages and conditions being constantly erroded by the bean counters and them knowing there is always someone who will queue up for your job,, pushing buttons and being told to let the automatics do the flying- I mean the only time you lot probably do a full manual ILS is in the sim, the auto- throttles are on when you do it without the autopilot- just point the thing. I actually think that you guys
and CC are probably one of the very last professions that commands automatic respect from the public- if that is what makes it a happy job for you , then so be it- but your are getting close to losing the plot. Oh got a JP Mk5a rating as well, only took a couple of sorties. Oh and a few hours in a 757 sim and a 146 sim, still remember the EPR for approach- found it easy other than the nose up attitude S&L, well for a couple of minutes at least, unlike actually losing the starboard on the 401 on take off, fully loaded in pretty marginal VMC
So in answer to the question, I could have easily gone commercial- but I didnt want to. nights are for family, telly,beer, going out and nobody tells me to get up at 3.00am for a four sector day when I wouldn't even get the chance for a quick sandwich on turnaround-- by revealing the aircraft reg's some will know who I am- but I have always spoken my mind. Oh and the callsign DOPE is registered with ICAO in Canada and 05 is the number I like. IJH
How about a triple first on Instrument rating( some of you take 7 attempts- should you really be at the pointy end?), all exams passed first time, did my IR test with that great examiner, Alan Calder at Leeds on a rockwell 114a GT, told him after take off that the two VOR receivers were out 5 degress so made an executive decision, to ignore one and use the other- he liked that. Passed-- only the day I passed the group flogged G-Natt and bought G-Roar C401, so I had to upgrade to a twin, passed first time- AGAIN even though Exam-17 was sent all over the place owing to inbound commercials at LBA. Who taught me ? John Dale, the best IR instructor in the business..bar none at all ..ever. His other job is ATC at EGCC, I remember coming back one day during training and the obviously inexperienced controller had set up the ILS intercept without considering the very strong wind-- we would have never got the localiser. I said shall I tell her-- he said no-- they've got to learn somehow, she made a 767 to a 360 turn behind me. Lots of the bods in GA at EGCC said I am a natural, but I could see the writing on the wall even then- wages and conditions being constantly erroded by the bean counters and them knowing there is always someone who will queue up for your job,, pushing buttons and being told to let the automatics do the flying- I mean the only time you lot probably do a full manual ILS is in the sim, the auto- throttles are on when you do it without the autopilot- just point the thing. I actually think that you guys
and CC are probably one of the very last professions that commands automatic respect from the public- if that is what makes it a happy job for you , then so be it- but your are getting close to losing the plot. Oh got a JP Mk5a rating as well, only took a couple of sorties. Oh and a few hours in a 757 sim and a 146 sim, still remember the EPR for approach- found it easy other than the nose up attitude S&L, well for a couple of minutes at least, unlike actually losing the starboard on the 401 on take off, fully loaded in pretty marginal VMCSo in answer to the question, I could have easily gone commercial- but I didnt want to. nights are for family, telly,beer, going out and nobody tells me to get up at 3.00am for a four sector day when I wouldn't even get the chance for a quick sandwich on turnaround-- by revealing the aircraft reg's some will know who I am- but I have always spoken my mind. Oh and the callsign DOPE is registered with ICAO in Canada and 05 is the number I like. IJH
Last edited by dope05; 19th Sep 2008 at 17:24.
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wow dope05 your amazing,all that in one dream ( or microsoft sortie ) you are my hero."Lots of the bods in GA at EGCC said I am a natural" natural what.......hmmmmmmm
anyway,now thats off your chest,back to the topic.........Alitalia.
anyway,now thats off your chest,back to the topic.........Alitalia.
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LGW_Warrior
PILOT, and no I cant seem to fly the microsoft flight sim program, tried it a couple of times, too unrealistic and its just a game me thinks
Learned on PA38's, ,flown PA28's, PA 28 200r Arrow,logged much time in AC114's, C401, C172, Katana DV20- didnt even need to do a check out, Havard, SuperChipmunk with a Lyco 540, bit of a fishtail on that one, and being a single seater no check out, Pitts S2a with Alan Cassidy, Enstron Shark 280, Jet Provost Mk3a, Jet Provost Mk5a with live bangers, Strikemaster with Tim West who was sadly killed, during a subsequent test flight, PN68 Partenavia, Seneca MK3 , Aztecs - Slingsby T67 Firefly a/b and C, and the venerable Tiger Moth which won me a £5 bet with ATC that I wouldn't bounce it on my first landing, original member of PPLIR, need I go on? - I feel qualified to comment on prrune, and I am the one on the outside looking in.
PILOT, and no I cant seem to fly the microsoft flight sim program, tried it a couple of times, too unrealistic and its just a game me thinks
Learned on PA38's, ,flown PA28's, PA 28 200r Arrow,logged much time in AC114's, C401, C172, Katana DV20- didnt even need to do a check out, Havard, SuperChipmunk with a Lyco 540, bit of a fishtail on that one, and being a single seater no check out, Pitts S2a with Alan Cassidy, Enstron Shark 280, Jet Provost Mk3a, Jet Provost Mk5a with live bangers, Strikemaster with Tim West who was sadly killed, during a subsequent test flight, PN68 Partenavia, Seneca MK3 , Aztecs - Slingsby T67 Firefly a/b and C, and the venerable Tiger Moth which won me a £5 bet with ATC that I wouldn't bounce it on my first landing, original member of PPLIR, need I go on? - I feel qualified to comment on prrune, and I am the one on the outside looking in.
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Dope a simple No I'm not a comercial pilot and No i haven't learned it on flight sim would've done instead of taking up all this
thread space with what only can be described as "A rather boring life story of me!!"
Now can we please go back to the thread..!!!
thread space with what only can be described as "A rather boring life story of me!!"
Now can we please go back to the thread..!!!
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Ok after the rant, back to Alitalia, you would think though that people who post replies to threads would sense that the post was written by somebody who A. knew about things aviation, or B. was a complete T*ss*r, to paraphrase Tricky Dickey "never understimate the stupidity" of some people on this site>
The Italian Government would probably be happy when it fails as then it can be resurrected with a much reduced cost base, to compete with the Loco's. They will not be be the one to blame as subsidies are illegal under EU law( except for AirFrance - obviously), so they cant bail them out-- well thats going to be the excuse even though they own about 50% of the stock, so could engineer a rights issue- but they wont because it will be money down the drain and just delaying the inevitable. The Italians want their flag carrier- its pride, as do all countries, so bye bye Alitalia, hello Air Italy or Italian Air, anything as long as it registers with the english speaking countries. Talk about short selling, they say they cant pay for fuel, "technical reasons" grounded 50 flights today - yeah right- must be a mega engine problem or are they trying to use olive oil instead. and by admitting that problem all their other lines of credit have just dried up. It would be like XL announcing in July that they were on the rocks--- no business publicly admits that sort of sensitive information until its gone into administration- unless there is monkey business behind the scenes and they've been lent on by a rather large share holder ...Guess who?- and someone wants it to go on the cheap........Tis business.
The Italian Government would probably be happy when it fails as then it can be resurrected with a much reduced cost base, to compete with the Loco's. They will not be be the one to blame as subsidies are illegal under EU law( except for AirFrance - obviously), so they cant bail them out-- well thats going to be the excuse even though they own about 50% of the stock, so could engineer a rights issue- but they wont because it will be money down the drain and just delaying the inevitable. The Italians want their flag carrier- its pride, as do all countries, so bye bye Alitalia, hello Air Italy or Italian Air, anything as long as it registers with the english speaking countries. Talk about short selling, they say they cant pay for fuel, "technical reasons" grounded 50 flights today - yeah right- must be a mega engine problem or are they trying to use olive oil instead. and by admitting that problem all their other lines of credit have just dried up. It would be like XL announcing in July that they were on the rocks--- no business publicly admits that sort of sensitive information until its gone into administration- unless there is monkey business behind the scenes and they've been lent on by a rather large share holder ...Guess who?- and someone wants it to go on the cheap........Tis business.
Last edited by dope05; 19th Sep 2008 at 19:42.