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Old 7th Sep 2009, 15:42
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That's a fair question.

I've had what I consider to be an appalling run with KL from BRS, with planes being cancelled (usually because they've gone tech on arrival), or delayed and causing me to miss connections at AMS. Essentially, all the value of their service comes from reliability and punctuality, and my experience of both has been truly awful. I've also found them very wanting of customer service when things go wrong, probably because they have no dedicated staff at BRS.

My personal experience seems to be echoed by colleagues and other people who travel from the airport. In particular, people seem to have exceptionally low expectations of bags connecting at AMS. I gave up checking in luggage with KL when they lost my bags at AMS *in both directions* (on a two day trip!).

So my choice is to de-risk my travel (considerably) by not using KL, and by taking the hit on my time travelling to Heathrow. (Incidentally, I *never* had a problem with the FRA service).
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Old 8th Sep 2009, 19:45
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Hello all, I haven't commented on here for a fair while as I now live a fair old distance away but a read this pahe on a regular basis. Just thought I'd drop some info in on the BE debate.

I worked at BRS for about 3 and a half years working for Servisair, BA and the BRS themselves. I Appologise in advance but can't remember exact dates (A lot has happened since I left!!!) Just before I left Servisair for BA I went on a training course held by BE with several BE big wigs over at the old terminal building and, immpression would not be the strongest word more like we were drilled and told that BE were about to release a major expansion at BRS. I left moving onto BA working for them at the time of Concorde's last flight and after a time moved on to work for BRS.

I was quite suprised when BE didn't introduce the routes they were informing they were going to do but at the time I thought nothing of it. Then we were briefed that the owners of BRS were planning to take over Exeter and it would be used as a second Bristol with regular flights and an increased operation from there which would complement the Bristol routes and destinations. This was also the reason, informed, why BE did not expand from BRS because they were at the time under the immpression that Exeter and BRS would effictivly be as one (all be it with the distance).

Then as you are probably aware the competition commission came in and ended that possibility and since then EZY have increased BA were bought out and Rip of Air have set up a base.

Quick rant while I'm here just tried to book FR tickets to SZG from my now local ish Standsted, mate booked tickets same flight etc for him and partner and payed £80 when I tried to book (I have my first baby due in 2 weeks) it cost the same for me and my wife but total price with baby was £327 and you get no seat, no luggage, no online check-in!!! So off to LGW now with BA for £220 all in!!! By the way checked FlyBe from Southampton and Exeter and it was £420+ still rather do that tan FR though who have just lost another customer for life!

Rant over and all the best to those I have left behind in and around Lulsgate Bottom

T21
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Old 8th Sep 2009, 21:20
  #1103 (permalink)  

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Hello terrier.

Good to know you're still around and many congrats on impending new arrival and to Mrs terrier.

I remember speaking to you some years ago when I rang the airport to say I had discovered a glitch in their website that gave me access to all sorts of things I shouldn't have seen. It was quickly put right.

I too remember the promises of Flybe when they brought in the French routes to BRS. Quotes appeared in the local press from (I think) Mike Rutter that BRS would quickly have a Flybe network like Southampton. They obviously hadn't reckoned on easyJet.

I thought Flybe was against BRS taking over EXT after the former became preferred bidders. As you say, after complaints to the EU the OFT became involved over possible competition issues and BRS withdrew its bid. Would have been intriguing to see effectively one airport with terminals and runways sixty or seventy miles apart.

Moving on to KLM Citihopper, some years ago I used them regularly and was quite content most of the time, although on three occasions luggage went walkabout at AMS (eventually turned up) although one incident was the fault of the originating airport in the USA who put the wrong final destination code on the luggage.

I believe the Fokkers are the main problem with reliability and the F 100 will all but be phased out next year - just five left by then?

Citihopper now has some Embraer 190s with I think more to come. Whilst we may not see them on the BRS route regularly in the immediate future it may be that in due course they will become frequent visitors. That ought to improve reliability.
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Old 8th Sep 2009, 21:42
  #1104 (permalink)  
 
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So what will be done about the Germany situation? NCL does well with Dusseldorf by all accounts and even smaller airports like Leeds have connections to the German business hubs. Do we think LH will resume their FR service? Given that loads were actually increasing, I can only assume they pulled out as they found a more lucractive use for the prime- time FRA slot?
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Old 8th Sep 2009, 22:20
  #1105 (permalink)  

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The load factor on the FRA did appear to improve after LH announced withdrawal.

I know companies, including airlines, can change their minds but I do remember the quote from the LH UK rep at the time they said they were pulling out, albeit there was some ambiguity as to whether it was a permanent move.

She said it was unlikely that things would change in 2010 to permit a return of the service.

Although the loads may have been improving they may still have been less than LH needed to ensure a yield that would sustain the route, albeit fares were often sky high as I'm sure Bristol_Traveller would confirm.

During its 13 months of operation the LH BRS-FRA route carried 99,000 passengers which at least shows there is a market. LH had a lot of passengers feeding into its long haul network - by the end of the first six months of operation passengers from BRS had flown to every worldwide LH destination - and it is unlikely that any other airline flying BRS-FRA would have that sort of advantage.

When one considers that BRS has sixteen French routes operated by Air France, easyJet and Ryanair between them Germany does look bare.

Apart from easyJet to Berlin there is only the niche OLT route to Bremen.
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Old 9th Sep 2009, 11:25
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MV do you know the total number of passengers who fly from BIA who connect at AMS, CDG and EWR? Aside from CDG the French routes must be holiday routes. Traditionally the British have always taken holidays and purchased second homes in France so the market must be there. Not many head off to Germany!! I'm surprised that easy haven't increased routes to Germany. Didn't they try Hamburg for a while a couple of years ago? Between AF, KL, CO and LH the transfer pot must be too small. If that is the case it is hard to see a middle eastern airline coming on board even if they had the right equipment. Nobody seems to mention using AF via Paris on this thread? Most seem to use KL. Any reasons?
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Old 9th Sep 2009, 11:38
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I've used both and I tend to go by the lowest fare and best times ( I used to do Johannesburg a lot and preferred the Air France timings).

Didn't Air France recently upgrade from an ATR42 to an ATR72? If so, must be doing well at BRS, as KL usually use the Fokker 70, meaning a 50/50 split of capacity and it's usually pretty full.
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Old 9th Sep 2009, 16:06
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Kiss Flights will operate a brand new comprehensive flying programme from Bristol next summer, with 10 exciting destinations including, new for Summer 2010 - a weekly Friday flight to Skiathos.

Kiss will be offering mainly day flights with convenient departure times and all-in prices including 15 kgs free Hold Baggage per seat.

The flight only services will operate between May and October and can be booked through your local Travel Agent now.

Flight Schedule: Destination Start Finish Day Outbound Inbound Price From
Corfu 3 May 4 Oct Mon Dep 0700
Arr 1220 Dep 1315
Arr 1435 £190 rtn
Dalaman 3 May 25 Oct Mon Dep 1445
Arr 2100 Dep 2150
Arr 0035+1 £210 rtn
Heraklion 4 May 26 Oct Tues Dep 0700
Arr 1310 Dep 0040
Arr 0305+1 £190 rtn
Kefalonia 1 May 2 Oct Sat Dep 0700
Arr 1235 Dep 2255
Arr 0045+1 £230 rtn
Kos 5 May 27 Oct Weds Dep 0700
Arr 1305 Dep 0020
Arr 0250+1 £190 rtn
Lanzarote 6 May 28 Oct Thurs Dep 0825
Arr 1230 Dep 1310
Arr 1710 £190 rtn
Sharm el Sheikh 6 May 28 Oct Thurs Dep 1140
Arr 1855 Dep 0700
Arr 1050 £294 rtn
New: Skiathos 7 May 1 Oct Fri Dep 0800
Arr 1335 Dep 1425
Arr 1740 £230 rtn
Tenerife 7 May 29 Oct Fri Dep 1855
Arr 2320 Dep 2355
Arr 0430+1 £190 rtn
Zante 2 May 3 Oct Sun Dep 0500
Arr 1040 Dep 2120
Arr 2315 £190 rtn
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Old 13th Sep 2009, 18:22
  #1109 (permalink)  

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Hello bristolflyer.

Haven't got any detailed information re number of passengers who connect at AMS, CDG, EWR or even at BRU. However, in the past it's often been reported that a high proportion of passengers fly on from AMS - I've seen some figures put it at 60% on occasions.

The AMS route has stood up well this summer after Cityhopper
reduced the number of weekday rotations from 4 to 3. Passenger numbers on the route as a whole for the four summer months so far reported (April to July) show a drop of only 3.1% - 81,521 passengers flown this year compared to 84,113 in the same period in 2008.

Unless easyJet's share has risen dramatically, it can be assumed that KLM has held on to a substantial number of the passengers even with one less daily rotation.

It also has to be noted that this summer for the first time Ryanair has flown 3 x weekly to Eindhoven and almost certainly taken some passengers who would have flown to AMS, although there can't be much scope for transfer traffic at Eindhoven.

BRS to CDG carried 56,567 passengers from April to July this year and 67,226 in summer 2008. Whilst AF's rotations remained the same easyJet was only single daily whereas last year it was double daily on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays for much of the summer and single daily for the rest of the week. The loss of these rotations almost certainly accounts for the lower figure this summer.

Usual caveat re yields of course.

As for Hamburg, easyJet did the route for about a year in 2005-2006 but passenger numbers, though never an absolute disaster, were not up to the level of most of easyJet's other BRS routes then. I think the best months only had around 70% load factors.

I take the point about most of the French routes being leisure routes though CDG which you mentioned and Toulouse might be part exceptions, even though there is a daily TLS from Filton 'for the trade'. I note that for the coming winter Ryanair has suspended (hope that's what it is) nearly all the new summer routes brought in this year, with most being holiday routes to France and Italy.

As discussed in the Ryanair thread, that airline seems to have axed a susbstantial number of routes from several UK airports in the winter ahead, although BRS will have seven new winter Ryanair routes (some started in the summer) - Tenerife, Gran Canaria, Lanzarote, Alicante, Malaga, Reus and Malta.

Although there are gaps in the current winter schedule all four based aircraft will be needed at least for part of every day and there are also 24 weekly rotations currently listed using non-based aircraft.

Part of the reduction in based unit rotation numbers is due to some of the new routes that take between seven and nine hours to complete there and back.

Unless there are more routes pulled Ryanair will still be busier than last winter when they had just the two based aircraft.
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Old 16th Sep 2009, 08:31
  #1110 (permalink)  
 
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Reuters) - Australian investment firm Macquarie Airports (MAP) (MAP.AX) has agreed to sell its 35.5 percent stake in the UK's Bristol airport and will lift its stake in Copenhagen airport, it said on Wednesday.
MAP sold the Bristol stake to Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan for 128 million pounds ($211 million). It will buy a further 3.9 percent of the Danish airport for 570 million Danish crowns ($112 million), taking its stake to 30.8 percent. "Bristol now represents just 4 percent of our portfolio by value, and we feel that our investors are better served deploying our resources elsewhere," MAP said in a statement. ($1=.6066 Pound) (Reporting by Jonathan Standing; Editing by Michael Urquhart)


it now wonders on investment and developement plans for the airport now.

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Old 16th Sep 2009, 19:04
  #1111 (permalink)  

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it now wonders on investment and developement plans for the airport now.
It has been in the public domain for several months that Macquarie Airports was anxious to sell some of its assets to improve shareholder value with speculation that BRS would be on the sale sheet.

The airport is owned by South West Airports Limited which is a joint venture holding company owned jointly by Macquarie European Infrastructure Fund and Bristol Airport (Bermuda) Limited (BABL)

71% of BABL was previously owned by Macquarie Airports with the remaining 29% owned by Ontario Teachers Pension Plan.

Today's news means that the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan now owns 50% of the airport with Macquarie European Infrastructure Fund (a different branch of the Macquarie empire) the other 50%.

It's back to a similar situation that obtained before the Spanish Ferrovial Group bought BAA. Ferrovial, through its subsidiary Cintra, owned half the airport with Macquarie owning the other half. Ferrovial disposed of its half to avoid competition issues when it purchased BAA.

The Ontario Teachers Pension Plan is Canada's largest single professional pension plan with £50 billion of assets.

BRS's CEO Robert Sinclair said that Teachers, '…..........is fully supportive of the strategic direction of the business. It is committed to the long term development of the airport and the recent planning application in particular'.

So it looks as though the expansion plans are still on track. Just needs the planning authority to approve them – if that was only so simple.
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Old 2nd Oct 2009, 15:46
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Airport hotel ready for take-off
(01/10/09)
Development to provide on-site accommodation for passengers

Bristol International Airport (BIA) has signed an agreement with Pedersen Airport Hotels for the development of an on-site hotel. The agreement, completed today (30th September), is the first step towards the construction of a hotel of up to 250 rooms adjacent to the terminal building.

The proposed hotel would be positioned approximately 100 metres from the terminal building, providing passengers departing on early morning flights or arriving late in the evening with a convenient location for an overnight stay. Facilities will include meeting rooms, a licensed bar and full service restaurant, as well as dedicated car parking. Pedersen expects to select an internationally recognised brand over the course of the next few months.

The £20m development will generate around 25 full time equivalent jobs in the construction industry, and lead to the creation of around 140 jobs in total.

The on-site hotel will also reduce car and minibus journeys, which are currently made between existing off-site facilities and the airport, and enable passengers with early morning check-in times to arrive the previous day using public transport.

BIA is currently the largest airport in the UK without an on-site hotel. The proposed development will meet existing demand from passengers and air crew and provide the airport with a much-needed facility for both the business and leisure markets.

The hotel development will also provide overseas visitors arriving on evening flights with convenient and stress-free accommodation on their first night in the UK, enabling them to continue their onward journey to destinations across the South West refreshed the following morning.

The agreement paves the way for the submission of a detailed planning application by the developer within the next six months (this will be submitted separately from the development plans currently with North Somerset Council). Dependent on receipt of the relevant approvals, it is anticipated that the hotel will open in 2012.

Pedersen already owns three hotels in Bristol: the Novotel in Victoria Street, the Mercure on Welsh Back and the Ibis at Temple Quay, all in conjunction with Accor.
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Old 3rd Oct 2009, 01:43
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Great news, but I hope it is not an Accor Hotel.... I have stayed in all of the above, and my girlfriend used to work for them. We don't agree about much, but we do agree ALL Accor hotel brands (With the exception of a few pullmans) are terrible!

Hilton or Intercontinental branded (i.e. Holiday Inn) would be ideal I think
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Old 3rd Oct 2009, 11:31
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Don't Know If Holiday Inn Would, With Them Having One Just Down The Road

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Old 7th Oct 2009, 20:50
  #1115 (permalink)  

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Expansion plans

The BHX thread reports the enthusiasm of Teresa Villiers, Tory shadow transport secretary, for BHX as a greener alternative to expanding Heathrow.

Villiers says that it would be better to use BHX saying, 'stuffing more and more flights into the same overcrowded corner of the south of England starts to impose an unacceptably high cost to our environment and to our quality of life'.

This is in stark contrast to her view on the expansion of BRS as reported in the Bristol Evening Post where Villiers is said to be not enthusiastic about BRS's major expansion plans. Furthermore, she will give no undertaking that the electrification of the main railway line from London to Bristol (recently promised by Labour) would go ahead under the Conservatives.

Rather an odd stance from someone who always seems so keen to get domestic air travellers out of the sky and into trains, and a graduate of Bristol University to boot. What did they do there to upset her?

Now that the South West Regional Development Agency has written to the planning authority at North Somerset Council expressing doubts about BRS's expansion plans, along with formal letters of objection from Bristol City Council (the former owners of the airport!) and Bath and Northeast Somerset Council, not to mention the opposition of nearly all the neighbouring parish councils and a number of local MPs (Tory and Lib Dem - most Labour MPs are getting splinters in their backsides wondering which way to jump following their government's White Paper of a few years ago, no doubt waiting for the result of the General Election), it might not be surprising that the Tories nationally don't want to rock boats with support.

So it may be that in the years ahead West Country aerial travellers will be heading north along the M5 rather than east along the M4 to lift their feet from terra firma.
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Old 7th Oct 2009, 22:24
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Come on Merch-don't be too negative! This is exactly what the anti-lobbiests want from us! It is not too late to turn the tables. Go on to the Pro BIA Facebook group to get contact details to support the airport. CLICK HERE

Write to your MP, Write to the local rags! Tell your friends....
It is going to be an uphill struggle all of the way, but there is a lot to fight for!
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Old 8th Oct 2009, 11:24
  #1117 (permalink)  

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Done most of those things and am continuing to do so.

For example, one of my alter egos always responds when the local rag prints what I regard as inaccurate, biased or just plain wrong comments about the airport, and the airport now seems to feature in the paper several times a week. Each month, for instance, they publish the latest percentage drop in passenger figures with their own 'assessment', something they never did when passengers figures were rising month after month, year after year, as I have pointed out.

I don't always use the same monicker with these replies because people begin to say........oh, it's just him again, he would say that.

I've had ongoing dialogue with my MP, a Labour woman, but she seems unable to get down from the fence.

I've also written to the Tory Party, nationally and in Europe, but I received the expected nebulous political replies.

I sent Leader Janke (Lib Dem) of the Bristol City Council an email giving her the benefit of my views and what I thought of her council's decision to object formally to the expansion plans. She did reply though I think it was a standard letter. The major point seemed to be that the wellbeing of local residents affected by the airport's presence was more important than the continuing prosperity of the city region's economy.

I've written to my local city councillors (both Conservative) but neither has replied and they've had six weeks to do so.

I've always believed that one way or the other the final decision will rest with the secretary of state and it has concerned me that from the outset the Conservatives, the likely government-in-waiting, have never embraced with enthusiasm the Bristol expansion plans, seemingly confirmed by their shadow transport minister.

I'm still convinced that the majority of people in the Bristol region support expansion. Each time the local rag or local telly does a poll the figures seem always to be around 70% for and 30% against. The pity is most of those who want expansion are literally the silent majority. As you say, bird scarer, active support is now the order of the day.
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Old 10th Oct 2009, 16:11
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MV thanks for info on flights. Friday's Evening Post ran a two page article on the airport in which SBAE stated that if the airport is given planning passenger numbers should be limited to 8mppa until the road situation is sorted out. Somewhat of a concession given their stance until now. What I simply do not understand is the inactivity of all the South Bristol local authorities regarding access. There will be years of wrangling over the South Bristol ring road. Current plans seem to suggest a single carriage way road from the A370 at the Flax Borton Junction to the A38 at the Town and Country Inn and at some point continuing to the Hicks Gate roundabout at Keynsham (poss 2020+). this is little better than is currently in place save for the fact the Barrow bottleneck will be removed. The answer is blindingly obvious! Continue the current ring road duel carriage way from Keynsham to the M5 via the airport. When they do build these roads the access will still be poor especially for those coming from up or down the M5. Bristol is constantly ignored by Government when it comes to all forms of infrastructure projects. Out local representatives, of all political parties, are pathetic and weak.
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Old 10th Oct 2009, 21:06
  #1119 (permalink)  

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Hello flyer.

I read that report which the Post presented as a concession on the part of SBAE. I didn't read it that way at all. It seems to me that SBAE is still wholeheartedly pursuing its opposition but is trying to limit the damage if it ultimately fails by suggesting caps on passenger numbers.

That looks to me to be a win-near win situation for SBAE whatever happens.

I agree about the inadequacy of road access (there will never be rail access) and the little likelihood of much being done to improve it in the forseeable future at least.

A huge amount of public money has already been spent on the Greater Bristol Strategic Transport Study that has come up with a series of suggestions on the way Bristol area transport (road and rail) could be improved over the next two decades and access to the airport features prominently.

Their maps are very impressive, if nothing else, including one suggestion for a transport interchange at Worle by the M5 and main rail line giving, inter alia, cross-country access to BRS. One idea is a road from that area to the airport bypassing Banwell and Wrington. That's gone down like a lead balloon with the movers and shakers at Wrington as you can imagine, though Banwell people might find it more acceptable as their village is perpetually blighted by traffic congestion as it was in the 1950s when I used to pass through en route to school at Weston and they were promised a bypass then.

The obvious answer for BRS is a direct link to the M5 about three miles away but that does not appear in the GBSTS repertoire.

The South Bristol Ring Road would be of limited value although the first part, if it is ever built, seems now to have been reduced to two of the suggested routes between the A370 and A38. At least this would take airport-bound traffic approaching from The Portway (A4) away from much of traffic-clogged south-west Bristol.

The irony is that one of the main points of those who object to expansion are the unsatisfactory road systems leading to the airport, yet these same people are the first to object when new roads are proposed, saying they ruin the virgin countryside and are an emissions-creating blot on the landscape.

That's why I feel SBAE's idea of limiting passenger numbers until road access is improved to be a hollow one because they will be in the forefront objecting to any new road that is proposed.
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Old 11th Oct 2009, 18:47
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I notice Dominican Republic is not on the BRS route map any more... Has this been dropped?
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