British Airways - 2
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WW
WW = Worldwide (Longhaul) LHR
EF = Eurofleet (Shorthaul) LHR
MF = Mixed Fleet LHR
SFG = Single Fleet Gatwick
Last edited by BAladdy; 10th Jan 2013 at 14:11.
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Add Bergen and Stavanger to the list.
What routes are mixed fleet?
Longhaul
Abuja
Accra
Kuwait
Las Vegas
Los Angeles
Luanda
Nairobi
Rio De Janeiro
Seoul
Tokyo Haneda
Vancouver
Midhaul
Almaty
Baku
Cairo *** Until 01FEB13 *** (*1)
Tbilisi
Shorthaul
Hamburg
Kiev
Lyon
Manchester
Paris-Orly
Pisa
Prague
St. Petersburg
Vienna
*1 = MF operated A321 replaced by a WW operated 767
what routes are planned to move to mixed fleet?
Last edited by BAladdy; 10th Jan 2013 at 15:20.
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BA have announced the lease of two 777-300ER's, which should help with their long range fleet, and allow them to take advantage more easily of the newly (BMI) acquired slots.
British Airways to lease 777s from ALC
British Airways to lease 777s from ALC
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How many 777-300ERs will BA operate after these orders?
Will they replace any of their 747-400s?
Will they order more more of these planes?
When the leases expire, will they order A350-1000s?
When are they due to order more 787s and A380s? (I know its been delayed by the takeover of BMI)
When will they withdraw the 737-400s
When will they order the A319neo/A320neo/A321neo?
Will they replace any of their 747-400s?
Will they order more more of these planes?
When the leases expire, will they order A350-1000s?
When are they due to order more 787s and A380s? (I know its been delayed by the takeover of BMI)
When will they withdraw the 737-400s
When will they order the A319neo/A320neo/A321neo?
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Just how slight is the benefit to keeping them? I reckon it's a lot more than slight. In addition, selling LHR slots does not deal with the FR problem, in fact it would add to the already considerable cash pile EI have and make it even more of an attractive take over target by people/companies interested in nothing but that cash pile.
Selling the slots to BA would mean EI having no control over them, and who is to say that BA wouldn't reduce services from DUB/ORK/SNN/BHD over time especially if as you say extra slots would mean them better able to compete on other routes?
Finally, just because BA doesn't hold the same % of LHR slots as AF does at CDG does not mean they are short of slots. Don't they already lease some out to other airlines?
Selling the slots to BA would mean EI having no control over them, and who is to say that BA wouldn't reduce services from DUB/ORK/SNN/BHD over time especially if as you say extra slots would mean them better able to compete on other routes?
Finally, just because BA doesn't hold the same % of LHR slots as AF does at CDG does not mean they are short of slots. Don't they already lease some out to other airlines?
With the sale of the LHR, EI can codeshare (maybe even a ATL style deal even) on BA's LHR-DUB/BHD services, which would mean more passengers use then (EI's and BA's) and BA can cut duplicate frequncies (and use then for new routes), which would mean yields will rise making them more profitable and in turn meaning its more likely BA will retain those services for the long run
What you also have to understand is that due to BA having a smaller share of slots at LHR (which can't handle as many flights as CDG) is a major limitation in what flights BA has to operate, its has to choose between:
1: Extensive TATL network
2: Extensive shorthaul connections
3: Extensive Asia/Africa/South America networks
Unlike BA, Lufthansa and Air France-KLM have all of those networks and since LHR is finding it diffcult to expand, the only way BA can better compete with its rivals by having all 3 networks is to buy more slots at LHR/LGW, including EI's slots at both airports...
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BALHR your love for British Airways is as I have said before admirable. But you do not seem to grasp other peoples point of view.
It is very apparent to everyone the advantages in your proposition to BA however it is also apparent to everyone (with the probable exception of yourself) it has little or no advantage to Aer Lingus, so therefore what you propose is very unlikely to happen.
You also assume that FR would allow EI to buy back their shareholding, what basis do you have for believing this would be the case?
It is very apparent to everyone the advantages in your proposition to BA however it is also apparent to everyone (with the probable exception of yourself) it has little or no advantage to Aer Lingus, so therefore what you propose is very unlikely to happen.
You also assume that FR would allow EI to buy back their shareholding, what basis do you have for believing this would be the case?
Last edited by pwalhx; 12th Jan 2013 at 13:58.
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I can't actually believe you are asking all these questions whilst spouting forth thousands of words on the solution to the London capacity problem/BA and VS strategy. Bizarre.
Presumably 15 considering they have 6 now, are due in receipt of 6 further direct from Boeing as well as the 3 to be leased from ALC. However, these aircraft were originally ordered to bridge the gap following delays in 787 delivery so it will be hard to know how long they will stay.
That was the purpose of the A380 and 787-8/9 orders.
As above; these aircraft were (at least originally) meant to just bridge a gap until deliveries of new aircraft are such that they can be returned to the lessor. But our guesses are as good as anybody's as to whether they might take the A350 - has been previously discussed and we can only speculate.
I'd presume that this will take place after those aircraft have begun to arrive in the fleet. Certainly the 787 will have to prove itself as a viable type following recent problems experienced by other operators. But once again, we'll have to wait and see.
An announcement on 737 replacement is due this year. The rest of the fleet (as well as airports like JER) would indicate that an A319neo/A320neo order might be prudent as their replacement. Depending on when the first aircraft arrive, they could start to go from 2015 onwards.
Some of the EF/SFG aircraft are ageing - an neo order might be the most sensible replacement. This could be in two years time; maybe more - there is currently no pressing need to replace most of the current generation of aircraft.
By the way, I'm considerably younger than you so probably shouldn't have to be answering questions like this. Perhaps you might consider learning something about the industry before writing the essays which you do?
How many 777-300ERs will BA operate after these orders?
Will they replace any of their 747-400s?
When the leases expire, will they order A350-1000s?
When are they due to order more 787s and A380s? (I know its been delayed by the takeover of BMI)
When will they withdraw the 737-400s
When will they order the A319neo/A320neo/A321neo?
By the way, I'm considerably younger than you so probably shouldn't have to be answering questions like this. Perhaps you might consider learning something about the industry before writing the essays which you do?
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BALHR your love for British Airways is as I have said before admirable. But you do not seem to grasp other peoples point of view.
It is very apparent to everyone the advantages in your proposition to BA however it is also apparent to everyone (with the probable exception of yourself) it has little or no advantage to Aer Lingus, so therefore what you propose is very unlikely to happen.
You also assume that FR would allow EI to buy back their shareholding, what basis do you have for believing this would be the case?
It is very apparent to everyone the advantages in your proposition to BA however it is also apparent to everyone (with the probable exception of yourself) it has little or no advantage to Aer Lingus, so therefore what you propose is very unlikely to happen.
You also assume that FR would allow EI to buy back their shareholding, what basis do you have for believing this would be the case?
The main advantages to all this are to BA, hence why I suggesting that in return BA deals with the "FR porblem" meaning that EI benefits from the fact they don't have to deal with a "difficult shareholder"
Also FR would sell their shareholding for the right price, which might be after BA's buys a big enough shareholding to block a takeover from them...
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Firstly, thanks for the information 
I am asking these question to see what your opinion is and to see if there is any additional info that I might have not heard about...
So that I can understand what should happen in my opinion...
Thanks for telling me...
Any chance of them leasing any more?
Also if they retain the number of 747-400s at 52, that will mean that BA will operate 67 300+ seater aircraft, or if you add the A380s they havr ordered 79 (not that BA is planning to operate such a number, yet...)
Is it not the case that the 787s are meant to replace the 767s (now its looks like it will be more for expansion after the BMI takeover)?
Since the 777X is delayed (and still not given the Green Light) until the 2020s, it makes it more likely the A350-1000 (and A350-900s to replace the 777-200ERs) will be ordered, since they will arrive sooner...
Hopefully by then, the 787s problems would hav been ironed out...
Don't they have suplus A320s (EX-BMI) that could move to LGW once more 777s/787s + A380s are delivered?
Thanks for the info...
I just wanted to know if there was any infomation in relation to these subjects I do not know about...
I do need to know more about the industry however...
I can't actually believe you are asking all these questions whilst spouting forth thousands of words on the solution to the London capacity problem/BA and VS strategy. Bizarre.
So that I can understand what should happen in my opinion...
Presumably 15 considering they have 6 now, are due in receipt of 6 further direct from Boeing as well as the 3 to be leased from ALC. However, these aircraft were originally ordered to bridge the gap following delays in 787 delivery so it will be hard to know how long they will stay.
Any chance of them leasing any more?
Also if they retain the number of 747-400s at 52, that will mean that BA will operate 67 300+ seater aircraft, or if you add the A380s they havr ordered 79 (not that BA is planning to operate such a number, yet...)
That was the purpose of the A380 and 787-8/9 orders.
As above; these aircraft were (at least originally) meant to just bridge a gap until deliveries of new aircraft are such that they can be returned to the lessor. But our guesses are as good as anybody's as to whether they might take the A350 - has been previously discussed and we can only speculate.
I'd presume that this will take place after those aircraft have begun to arrive in the fleet. Certainly the 787 will have to prove itself as a viable type following recent problems experienced by other operators. But once again, we'll have to wait and see.
I'd presume that this will take place after those aircraft have begun to arrive in the fleet. Certainly the 787 will have to prove itself as a viable type following recent problems experienced by other operators. But once again, we'll have to wait and see.
An announcement on 737 replacement is due this year. The rest of the fleet (as well as airports like JER) would indicate that an A319neo/A320neo order might be prudent as their replacement. Depending on when the first aircraft arrive, they could start to go from 2015 onwards.
Some of the EF/SFG aircraft are ageing - an neo order might be the most sensible replacement. This could be in two years time; maybe more - there is currently no pressing need to replace most of the current generation of aircraft.
By the way, I'm considerably younger than you so probably shouldn't have to be answering questions like this. Perhaps you might consider learning something about the industry before writing the essays which you do?
I do need to know more about the industry however...
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BA No 5
BA are well down the list with Ryanair and Easyjet being much much busier and profitable.
List of largest airlines in Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jolly Hockeysticks
List of largest airlines in Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jolly Hockeysticks
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Sorry to all people interested in EI for the thread drift, this will be my last response to BALHR.
Having spent 30+ years working in international trade and logistics I have a pretty good grasp on what the UK Economy needs. If you really believe that the UK Economy is dependent on BA god help us.
Trade is a two way street the UK needs foreign carriers as well as British carriers at Heathrow. Personally I think we need EI at Heathrow and all the other UK airports it supports over here and long may it do so.
Having spent 30+ years working in international trade and logistics I have a pretty good grasp on what the UK Economy needs. If you really believe that the UK Economy is dependent on BA god help us.
Trade is a two way street the UK needs foreign carriers as well as British carriers at Heathrow. Personally I think we need EI at Heathrow and all the other UK airports it supports over here and long may it do so.
I am not disputing that the UK need overseas carriers (including EI at LHR), but BA provides a large proportion of flights in/out of the UK, so there would be a major impact if BA was to fall behind its rivals in Europe/North America/Middle East and beyond
We would not be having this conversation if LHR had 4+ runways...
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BA are well down the list with Ryanair and Easyjet being much much busier and profitable.
List of largest airlines in Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jolly Hockeysticks
List of largest airlines in Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jolly Hockeysticks
Of course U2 and FR will have more passengers, since they have far more hubs than IAG and have lower cost and fares
If IAG had more hubs (for arguments sake, if there was a IAG-LH-TK combinations) then it would have far more passengers than Ryanair and Easyjet...
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Neither RYR or EZY/EZS have ANY hubs that's not in their business model.
You can't book through tickets.
If you choose to book two flights through a base and are for any reason delayed both carriers WILL strand you and recharge you at last minute (Full fare close to Legacies Y rates).
The business model is POINT TO POINT and they do this rather well - Better than most legacies ever did in the case of the UK beyond London.
The only UK variable fares carrier (Oft referred to as LCC) with any Hubbing and connection opportunities is FLYBE -they have two hubs Manchester and Southampton and do offer through fares - They even sell codeshare on Air France mainline out of Manchester and Birmingham and carry Etihad passengers from/to Manchester from other regional airports.
FlyBe even codeshare with none other than British Airways on the Manchester -Dusseldorf, Hanover and Milan services !
You can't book through tickets.
If you choose to book two flights through a base and are for any reason delayed both carriers WILL strand you and recharge you at last minute (Full fare close to Legacies Y rates).
The business model is POINT TO POINT and they do this rather well - Better than most legacies ever did in the case of the UK beyond London.
The only UK variable fares carrier (Oft referred to as LCC) with any Hubbing and connection opportunities is FLYBE -they have two hubs Manchester and Southampton and do offer through fares - They even sell codeshare on Air France mainline out of Manchester and Birmingham and carry Etihad passengers from/to Manchester from other regional airports.
FlyBe even codeshare with none other than British Airways on the Manchester -Dusseldorf, Hanover and Milan services !
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And Ex BAcon international routes from Birmingham but thats not really the point I was making.
It was to rebuke BALHR claims the RYR and EZY/EZS have hubs when they have many more bases however none operate as connecting Hubs in any sense.
It was to rebuke BALHR claims the RYR and EZY/EZS have hubs when they have many more bases however none operate as connecting Hubs in any sense.
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Neither RYR or EZY/EZS have ANY hubs that's not in their business model.
You can't book through tickets.
If you choose to book two flights through a base and are for any reason delayed both carriers WILL strand you and recharge you at last minute (Full fare close to Legacies Y rates).
The business model is POINT TO POINT and they do this rather well - Better than most legacies ever did in the case of the UK beyond London.
The only UK variable fares carrier (Oft referred to as LCC) with any Hubbing and connection opportunities is FLYBE -they have two hubs Manchester and Southampton and do offer through fares - They even sell codeshare on Air France mainline out of Manchester and Birmingham and carry Etihad passengers from/to Manchester from other regional airports.
FlyBe even codeshare with none other than British Airways on the Manchester -Dusseldorf, Hanover and Milan services !
You can't book through tickets.
If you choose to book two flights through a base and are for any reason delayed both carriers WILL strand you and recharge you at last minute (Full fare close to Legacies Y rates).
The business model is POINT TO POINT and they do this rather well - Better than most legacies ever did in the case of the UK beyond London.
The only UK variable fares carrier (Oft referred to as LCC) with any Hubbing and connection opportunities is FLYBE -they have two hubs Manchester and Southampton and do offer through fares - They even sell codeshare on Air France mainline out of Manchester and Birmingham and carry Etihad passengers from/to Manchester from other regional airports.
FlyBe even codeshare with none other than British Airways on the Manchester -Dusseldorf, Hanover and Milan services !
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If BA maintains the amount of slots at LHR/LGW and gradually reduce it short-haul fleet in favour of long-haul* and based on their current fleet orders, then this is what a possible future BA fleet
2 X Airbus A318-100
40-50 X Airbus A319neo (replacing the Airbus A319-100’s)
40-50 X Airbus A320neo (replacing the Airbus A320-200’s)
15-20 X Airbus A321neo (replacing the Airbus A321-200’s)
40-50 X Boeing 787-8/9 (replacing the Boeing 767-300ER’s)
40-50 X Airbus A350-900 (replacing the Boeing 777-200/200ER)
60-70 X Airbus A350-1000 + Airbus A380-800 (replacing the Boeing 747-400/777-300ER)
*By withdrawing the 737-400s, but keep the same number of A320s and delay the retirements of 767s/747s until after the “initial” A380/787 order
2 X Airbus A318-100
40-50 X Airbus A319neo (replacing the Airbus A319-100’s)
40-50 X Airbus A320neo (replacing the Airbus A320-200’s)
15-20 X Airbus A321neo (replacing the Airbus A321-200’s)
40-50 X Boeing 787-8/9 (replacing the Boeing 767-300ER’s)
40-50 X Airbus A350-900 (replacing the Boeing 777-200/200ER)
60-70 X Airbus A350-1000 + Airbus A380-800 (replacing the Boeing 747-400/777-300ER)
*By withdrawing the 737-400s, but keep the same number of A320s and delay the retirements of 767s/747s until after the “initial” A380/787 order
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BALHR
BALHR
Your hijacking this forum with your stupid suggestions and constant questions regarding the future size of BA especially it's fleet, just look back at your posts and think for a minute yeah and try and lay off a bit!
Your VERY annoying!
Your hijacking this forum with your stupid suggestions and constant questions regarding the future size of BA especially it's fleet, just look back at your posts and think for a minute yeah and try and lay off a bit!
Your VERY annoying!