British Airways - 2
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Cyprus
Age: 76
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think BA will survive for a number of reasons. One, it is the flag carrier and as such the population would not want to see it go under, there would be a massive media campain to prevent a collapse.
Two, assuming it can get all its costs down, staff, pensions, capital, marketing, then it is in no worse state then any other carrier.
Three. it does have a unique route structure where its Longhaul traffic is fed by its Shorthaul traffic & vice versa. However where I believe it is going wrong at present is its steady destruction of this vital two way feed.
I note that lots of early/late European/domestic flights are being withdrawn. Without these its impossible for pax to interconnect, forcing them to travel with a competitor. You will notice its revenue is well down at present, circa 12%, is not a lot of this caused by the effect I mentioned above? If they marketed this interconnectivity agressively, they would have a headstart within the UK. Even LGW could be drawn in here, why can't they run their own link between LHR-LGW, making life easier for interlining.
BA like most business's at present has a revenue problem, they will not solve it by cutbacks which reduce revenue.
Two, assuming it can get all its costs down, staff, pensions, capital, marketing, then it is in no worse state then any other carrier.
Three. it does have a unique route structure where its Longhaul traffic is fed by its Shorthaul traffic & vice versa. However where I believe it is going wrong at present is its steady destruction of this vital two way feed.
I note that lots of early/late European/domestic flights are being withdrawn. Without these its impossible for pax to interconnect, forcing them to travel with a competitor. You will notice its revenue is well down at present, circa 12%, is not a lot of this caused by the effect I mentioned above? If they marketed this interconnectivity agressively, they would have a headstart within the UK. Even LGW could be drawn in here, why can't they run their own link between LHR-LGW, making life easier for interlining.
BA like most business's at present has a revenue problem, they will not solve it by cutbacks which reduce revenue.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Leeds
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Walnut
Being the flag carrier didn't stop Sabena and Swissair from going under.
Also across the country as a whole I don't believe BA is held in any higher esteem than Woolworth's and look what happened to them.
Being the flag carrier didn't stop Sabena and Swissair from going under.
Also across the country as a whole I don't believe BA is held in any higher esteem than Woolworth's and look what happened to them.
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BA is increasingly become the flag carrier for london and not the nation, and with there continuen degrading of in flight service and customer care there is a real possibity they could become state owned and all its assets sold off.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Somewhere between T1 and T3
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BA needs to retain at least 4 months operating capital or the CAA has ever right to pull its licence to operate.
BA is like any other business it can go under. Look at Rover, Woolworths.
BA is trying to be run with a low cost frame of mind and make it work on a full service airline not possible. Yes cut your cost base, but also look at way to improve your revenue stream and generate positive cash flow in the business.
Other airlines are profiting from the problems at BA. I see customers come past me saying they are unsure of BA and what is happening. It’s the negative headlines with the unions and Walsh banging their drums. Talk about talking an airline down.
BA is like any other business it can go under. Look at Rover, Woolworths.
BA is trying to be run with a low cost frame of mind and make it work on a full service airline not possible. Yes cut your cost base, but also look at way to improve your revenue stream and generate positive cash flow in the business.
Other airlines are profiting from the problems at BA. I see customers come past me saying they are unsure of BA and what is happening. It’s the negative headlines with the unions and Walsh banging their drums. Talk about talking an airline down.
Walnut,
BA's route structure (hub&spoke) is not unique, AF-KLM and Lufthansa have the same system.
BA is the only flag carrier in Europe with a 3 billion pound pension deficit on it's books, that is unique...
Publicity campaigns will not save an airline, I really wonder if the average UK citizen is willing to part with some cash to save BA.
BA's route structure (hub&spoke) is not unique, AF-KLM and Lufthansa have the same system.
BA is the only flag carrier in Europe with a 3 billion pound pension deficit on it's books, that is unique...
Publicity campaigns will not save an airline, I really wonder if the average UK citizen is willing to part with some cash to save BA.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: sussex
Posts: 613
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't think anyone wanted the government to bail out Northern Rock, but they did to the tune of billions.
BA is far from needing saving but Mr Flaps is correct about Walsh talking the airline down-where's Colin Marshall when you need him !
BA is far from needing saving but Mr Flaps is correct about Walsh talking the airline down-where's Colin Marshall when you need him !
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Nova
Posts: 1,242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Longhitter
Perhaps the only reason that:
Is because "BA is the only flag carrier in Europe" who's pension arrangements are subject to the legislative powers of TCGB?
That is unique!
Perhaps the only reason that:
BA is the only flag carrier in Europe with a 3 billion pound pension deficit on it's books, that is unique...
That is unique!
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
Age: 42
Posts: 6,168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gordon Brown as Chancellor was responsible for a massive tax grab on what was one of the best pension structures in Europe ( the country not BA ), however the UK public has the attention span of a retarded goldfish, so even the MPs stealing on expenses is fading and it's back to arsing things up as usual.
The money was redistributed to fund the client welfare state that keeps voting Labour back in.
Brown was named by the Daily Mail as "The Man Who Stole Your Pension" but since pensions are beyond the understanding of many of us, it's hard to make a case in the attention span required. That's a big part of the reason the BA scheme went into meltdown and may yet drag the company into danger.
"post neo-classical endogenous growth theory" anyone?
The money was redistributed to fund the client welfare state that keeps voting Labour back in.
Brown was named by the Daily Mail as "The Man Who Stole Your Pension" but since pensions are beyond the understanding of many of us, it's hard to make a case in the attention span required. That's a big part of the reason the BA scheme went into meltdown and may yet drag the company into danger.
"post neo-classical endogenous growth theory" anyone?
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 5th Aug 2009 at 19:27.
...and here are some of the figures to prove it, across some of the UK`s largest companies.
Scarey numbers!!!
BBC NEWS | Business | Top firms' pension funds plummet
Scarey numbers!!!
BBC NEWS | Business | Top firms' pension funds plummet
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 1,438
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
July Traffic and Load Factor up in July
BA have just released their July pax figures.
In July 2009
* Passenger capacity, in Available Seat Kilometres, was 2.7 per cent below July 2008.
* Traffic, measured in Revenue Passenger Kilometres, rose by 1.0 per cent.
* Load factor increased 84.6 per cent up 3.1 points on July 08.
* Their was a 11.0 per cent decrease in premium traffic
* Their was 3.5 per cent increase in non-premium traffic.
* Cargo fell by 6.8%
It looks like BA's removal of excess capacity is starting to work!!.
In July 2009
* Passenger capacity, in Available Seat Kilometres, was 2.7 per cent below July 2008.
* Traffic, measured in Revenue Passenger Kilometres, rose by 1.0 per cent.
* Load factor increased 84.6 per cent up 3.1 points on July 08.
* Their was a 11.0 per cent decrease in premium traffic
* Their was 3.5 per cent increase in non-premium traffic.
* Cargo fell by 6.8%
It looks like BA's removal of excess capacity is starting to work!!.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: london
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Latest plan that we have heard about, is that the 4 class aircraft currently operating JFK service will be swapped for a 3 class aircraft, so no more needed at the moment!
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A Take on BA's issues
I was talking to a City Analyst about British Airways last month, and here are some points. Please note cannot mention names as views expressed are personal and are expressed here for debating purposes.
Simplistically BA has been on the rack since the late 90s over 2 distinct issues, one imposed by the Labour Government, and second by making themselves slaves to an internal goal. There are others such as outdated working practices, and arguably passing over the opportunities presented by KLM and Swissair.
Despite the above BA has proven very adaptable and quite profitable over the period, with some exceptionable managers.
Firstly, Gordon Brown’s Great Pension Theft caused a long term funding problem which directly hit BA’s ability to develop the business as money that would have been re-invested had to be sunk into the pension pit to make up for the money Labour stole. The damage Brown’s Grab caused to British industry has been amazing. I believe an actuarial report a couple years ago showed that Brown’s Grab actually depressed the tax revenue received by the Inland Revenue over the period.
Secondly, the 10% Margin Rule. This was applied across the board, perhaps it would have been better to just apply this to Heathrow services and set a different standard for LGW and the regions. By keeping profitable routes outside LHR despite not hitting the 10% targets would have been cash flow positive to the business as a whole, retained potentially a significant and probably frequent flyer client base, although inevitably there would be losses to the locos.
BA now has virtually all its eggs in one basket, Heathrow, and while a strength as the World’s Premier airport, it is a weakness as BA’s does not seem to have anything else as a fallback, not even Iberia as far as anyone seems aware at this point. Perhaps a closer relationship with FLybe, though at arms length could provide a new start back at least in the UK and Europe, and avoid the cludge that de-evolved into Bacon.
Simplistically BA has been on the rack since the late 90s over 2 distinct issues, one imposed by the Labour Government, and second by making themselves slaves to an internal goal. There are others such as outdated working practices, and arguably passing over the opportunities presented by KLM and Swissair.
Despite the above BA has proven very adaptable and quite profitable over the period, with some exceptionable managers.
Firstly, Gordon Brown’s Great Pension Theft caused a long term funding problem which directly hit BA’s ability to develop the business as money that would have been re-invested had to be sunk into the pension pit to make up for the money Labour stole. The damage Brown’s Grab caused to British industry has been amazing. I believe an actuarial report a couple years ago showed that Brown’s Grab actually depressed the tax revenue received by the Inland Revenue over the period.
Secondly, the 10% Margin Rule. This was applied across the board, perhaps it would have been better to just apply this to Heathrow services and set a different standard for LGW and the regions. By keeping profitable routes outside LHR despite not hitting the 10% targets would have been cash flow positive to the business as a whole, retained potentially a significant and probably frequent flyer client base, although inevitably there would be losses to the locos.
BA now has virtually all its eggs in one basket, Heathrow, and while a strength as the World’s Premier airport, it is a weakness as BA’s does not seem to have anything else as a fallback, not even Iberia as far as anyone seems aware at this point. Perhaps a closer relationship with FLybe, though at arms length could provide a new start back at least in the UK and Europe, and avoid the cludge that de-evolved into Bacon.
Short-term pennypinching on the premium class catering and ancillaries will drive more such passengers away, while for connection BA should look at how many others do it - Lufthansa do published 25-minute connections at Munich, and I've never missed one yet, because they are organised for it. A Heathrowite writing here a while ago about these said firstly that they were illegal, and then when I showed they were officially published just said they should not be allowed. A typical BA attitude to life I am afraid. Lost connections because the inbound aircraft waited 20 minutes for a stand at T5, or because the flight connections security is disorganised and queues are huge, is just bad management.
Does anyone from Waterside ever come down to T5 to think up any improvements ? No, because the prevailing attitude is that management is all about generating spreadsheets in the office and showing conformance to budget, not about developing and improving a product so more people will want to buy it.
As for Willie Walsh, BA is just a placeholder for him until he gets the job he really wants, Chief Exec at Ryanair following Michael O'Leary. And he can indulge in upsetting his future competitor while he's at it. Wonderful.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Essex
Posts: 579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I remember BA publicising short connection times (could have been 25 minutes) at Gatwick years ago - probably around the time North Terminal opened. It let that die quietly (the same as flying point-to-point services within Europe but outside the UK and through flights via London from and to points outside the UK).