LUTON - 6
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With Edinburgh Airport being sold for £807 million what is busier Luton worth?
Edinburgh has a far more varied clientèle, and manages to attract the legacy carriers like Air France, British Airways, BMI, Delta, KLM, Lufthansa and Turkish. These carriers typically pay more for the use of the airports facilities, than the Low Cost Carriers, which Luton is so reliant upon.
Edinburgh's facilities are arguably better... Air bridges, executive lounges, better built terminal
, full parallel taxiway, longer runway, more land to expand, etc...The airport has also probably has got more potential with these facilities to attract more varied businesses. They are vying for services to the Gulf Region and other long haul destinations, with Luton's current facilities and competition from other local airports is unlikely to attract these.
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London Luton Airport true worth?
I do not see why Luton should be worth less than Edinburgh Airport. Luton is a London Airport and the Southeast airports (apparently) are bursting at their seams. Maybe Luton Airport is worth in the region of £900 million?
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As woith any auction, an airport is "worth" what the highest bidder is prepared to pay. The general opinion was that the value of EDI was some way below what GIP have actually paid for it. Those people will doubtless say that GIP have paid over the odds but they evidently feel it was worth it.
I would suggest the answer in the financial sense will only be known when they come to sell it on.
I would suggest the answer in the financial sense will only be known when they come to sell it on.
Giles -
A lot of Luton's worth is in the business of executive aircraft handling. Not many pax, not much airport infrastructure, but decent landing/parking charges. And with Luton handling around 200 executive-jet movements a day, that adds up to a very lucrative business.
IMHO LTN is worth a deal more than EDI, if sold freehold.
A lot of Luton's worth is in the business of executive aircraft handling. Not many pax, not much airport infrastructure, but decent landing/parking charges. And with Luton handling around 200 executive-jet movements a day, that adds up to a very lucrative business.
IMHO LTN is worth a deal more than EDI, if sold freehold.
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Start a 'Bring Back Buster' campaign, would certainly add value to the airport image!
GIP seem to have rather deep pockets, but the cash is being spent wisely, just look at the the improvements to the northern terminal.
GIP seem to have rather deep pockets, but the cash is being spent wisely, just look at the the improvements to the northern terminal.
Paxing All Over The World
I don't know how many airports GIP own but they will have economies of scale. They will expect to remove jobs and back office equipment to run two UK airports not exactly for the price of one but certainly less than for two separate ones.
Also , their purchasing power around the world, their contract departments etc. are all in place and should enable them to strip a fair amount. Which means more profit. Hence paying the price.
Also , their purchasing power around the world, their contract departments etc. are all in place and should enable them to strip a fair amount. Which means more profit. Hence paying the price.
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Say this company borrowed the £780 million and paid 4% interest. Interest payments are over £31 million per year without reducing the debt, Maybe renting an airport like Luton makes for good practice as it does not saddle the company with debt.
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Wots happened at Luton? Through there this morning and the place was rather pleasant. Smiling security staff, friendly banter at the screening, reasonably priced food (for an airport), on time flight despite the rather rough weather conditions. Quite impressed. 
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THE death of Norwich pensioner Mary Whiting at Luton Airport in 2009 has resulted in the airport being charged with breaching health and safety regulations.
London Luton Airport Operations Ltd and C-T Aviation Solutions pleaded not guilty at Luton Magistrates Court to the charges under Section 3 of 1974’s Health and Safety at Work Act.
The Airport was also charged with breaching section 21 of the Act, as well as regulation 3 of Management of Health and Safety at Work. In addition C-TAS faces two offences under regulation 11 of Construction Design and Management.
The case was adjourned until June 18 for committal to Crown Court. A Health & Safety Executive spokeswoman said: “Both defendants elected for trial by jury.”
Mrs Whiting, 78, had just returned from a family holiday in May 2009 when she was hit by a truck being driven by Rossano Casagrande, 50, of Peterborough. Mr Casagrande had been an HGV driver for five years and was delivering milk to Luton Airport for Robert Wiseman Dairies in Northampton, a journey he had done about 20 times previously.
The court was told the crossing was on airport-owned land and did not conform to regulations that apply to public roads. It has since been modified.
In September 2010 Mr Casagrande was found not guilty of causing Mrs Whiting’s death by careless driving. The court heard a police expert describe the incident as a “tragic accident.”
PC Steven Andrews said it was his opinion that Mrs Whiting was in a blind spot when the lorry driver believed the crossing was clear and pulled slowly ahead, as Mrs Whiting stepped into the road, thinking the lorry was still stationary.
London Luton Airport Operations Ltd and C-T Aviation Solutions pleaded not guilty at Luton Magistrates Court to the charges under Section 3 of 1974’s Health and Safety at Work Act.
The Airport was also charged with breaching section 21 of the Act, as well as regulation 3 of Management of Health and Safety at Work. In addition C-TAS faces two offences under regulation 11 of Construction Design and Management.
The case was adjourned until June 18 for committal to Crown Court. A Health & Safety Executive spokeswoman said: “Both defendants elected for trial by jury.”
Mrs Whiting, 78, had just returned from a family holiday in May 2009 when she was hit by a truck being driven by Rossano Casagrande, 50, of Peterborough. Mr Casagrande had been an HGV driver for five years and was delivering milk to Luton Airport for Robert Wiseman Dairies in Northampton, a journey he had done about 20 times previously.
The court was told the crossing was on airport-owned land and did not conform to regulations that apply to public roads. It has since been modified.
In September 2010 Mr Casagrande was found not guilty of causing Mrs Whiting’s death by careless driving. The court heard a police expert describe the incident as a “tragic accident.”
PC Steven Andrews said it was his opinion that Mrs Whiting was in a blind spot when the lorry driver believed the crossing was clear and pulled slowly ahead, as Mrs Whiting stepped into the road, thinking the lorry was still stationary.
Justine Greening and Luton Expansion
The Transport Secretary Justine Greening was told in no uncertain terms that delays at immigration were getting worse and upsetting passengers at an easyJet reception at Westminster this week.
She was also lobbied over the issue of Air Passenger Duty, which the industry would like to see scrapped.
In turn, she was cheered by MPs, ministers, Lords and the bosses of many of Britain's airports when she told the gathering:
"We know there is a problem with air capacity in the South East and we intend to address it quickly."
The issue of capacity was the main talking point at the reception and we learned that there have been a few interesting developments in the last few months.
A fair wind
The first is that Luton Airport was recently invited to Downing Street to brief the Prime Minister's policy unit on the issue of expansion.
The airport wants to increase capacity and is asking for permission to handle up to 18 million passengers a year (almost double what it does at the moment).
We understand that they had a favourable reception and were told that "the wind was blowing in the right direction".
Heathrow Airport Heathrow is at high capacity but is there really a need for a new hub airport?
The government is keen to see existing capacity used and it looks as if Luton will be allowed to grow.
The second thing we learnt was that many in the industry are getting angry about the claim, often made by lobbyists, that Britain's airports are full.
"We're not," said one airport executive.
"Gatwick has loads of space at the moment, so too do Luton and Stansted and they've just opened a new terminal at Southend."
"Saying 'Britain is full' all the time is putting off new airlines from coming here."
She was also lobbied over the issue of Air Passenger Duty, which the industry would like to see scrapped.
In turn, she was cheered by MPs, ministers, Lords and the bosses of many of Britain's airports when she told the gathering:
"We know there is a problem with air capacity in the South East and we intend to address it quickly."
The issue of capacity was the main talking point at the reception and we learned that there have been a few interesting developments in the last few months.
A fair wind
The first is that Luton Airport was recently invited to Downing Street to brief the Prime Minister's policy unit on the issue of expansion.
The airport wants to increase capacity and is asking for permission to handle up to 18 million passengers a year (almost double what it does at the moment).
We understand that they had a favourable reception and were told that "the wind was blowing in the right direction".
Heathrow Airport Heathrow is at high capacity but is there really a need for a new hub airport?
The government is keen to see existing capacity used and it looks as if Luton will be allowed to grow.
The second thing we learnt was that many in the industry are getting angry about the claim, often made by lobbyists, that Britain's airports are full.
"We're not," said one airport executive.
"Gatwick has loads of space at the moment, so too do Luton and Stansted and they've just opened a new terminal at Southend."
"Saying 'Britain is full' all the time is putting off new airlines from coming here."
The second thing we learnt was that many in the industry are getting angry about the claim, often made by lobbyists, that Britain's airports are full.
"We're not," said one airport executive. "Gatwick has loads of space at the moment, so too do Luton and Stansted and they've just opened a new terminal at Southend. Saying 'Britain is full' all the time is putting off new airlines from coming here."
"We're not," said one airport executive. "Gatwick has loads of space at the moment, so too do Luton and Stansted and they've just opened a new terminal at Southend. Saying 'Britain is full' all the time is putting off new airlines from coming here."
There is less than 2m pax of space at LTN. Full of bottlenecks such as a short runway, unusual apron setup, no full length taxiway all in pretty cramped surroundings as airports go.
STN has some space; in the short term they have been haemorraging airlines, but in the long term this space is set to be taken up - they've been looking for a second runway of course.
LGW is the busiest single runway airport in the world; not an airport I've travelled through or studied extensively, but 34 million on one runway seems pretty busy! How much excess capacity is there?
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Full of bottlenecks such as a short runway, unusual apron setup
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When you make over 10% of Border Agency staff redundant and have to drag retired ex officials back during the Olympic year, you clearly are deranged
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STOL Airport!
I disagree with LTN Man,
The fact remains the runway is short and should have taxiways that extend its full length.
However, Albertis have no desire to invest 'real money' in the airport. Maybe they do not have much money to spend? You see in their response to LBC proposals, LLAOL stated on behalf of Albertis that they wanted to be a responsible operator and grow to handle 16 million passengers a year. In turn they quoted various environmental issues. They purposely stirred up trouble for activists and the like!
You tell me, any airport operator who does not seek to achieve the best growth possible! Imagine if Albertis was allowed 30 million passengers a year- would they turn it down based on the fact they want to be 'a considerate neighbour'? Of course they would not!
Albertis is up to something in my mind. I am sure the clue is in what funds they actually have?
Lutons runway needs to be extended at least by 1000 feet so that it can operate larger aircraft. In turn, the fact that aircraft take off from the current intersections on the runway-resulting in loss of runway in the event a fault develops, is in my mind a problem? Luton is not a STOL airport but appears to be treated as such. In fact there now appears to be similarities in runway leght use by both Luton and London City Airport departures.
During the winter periods, why do the likes of Monarch and Thomson operate to Worldwide destinations from Gatwick but not Luton? This needs to be addressed. Here in Luton, the travel agents advertise some destinations in the Mediteranean from Gatwick and Stansted yet no flights from Luton. Why is Gatwick gaining more business from three of the biggest airlines that are actually based here at Luton? Lutons catchment is equal to that of Gatwick.
The lenght of runway is critical to Lutons growth. We dont need a new runway, just one that is extended!
Whilst I appreciate the vast majority of Albertis airport business interests is in 3rd World Countries, here in Luton, we should have by now been World Class but remain stagnent, not due to the recession but due to an uninspired operator!
The fact remains the runway is short and should have taxiways that extend its full length.
However, Albertis have no desire to invest 'real money' in the airport. Maybe they do not have much money to spend? You see in their response to LBC proposals, LLAOL stated on behalf of Albertis that they wanted to be a responsible operator and grow to handle 16 million passengers a year. In turn they quoted various environmental issues. They purposely stirred up trouble for activists and the like!
You tell me, any airport operator who does not seek to achieve the best growth possible! Imagine if Albertis was allowed 30 million passengers a year- would they turn it down based on the fact they want to be 'a considerate neighbour'? Of course they would not!
Albertis is up to something in my mind. I am sure the clue is in what funds they actually have?
Lutons runway needs to be extended at least by 1000 feet so that it can operate larger aircraft. In turn, the fact that aircraft take off from the current intersections on the runway-resulting in loss of runway in the event a fault develops, is in my mind a problem? Luton is not a STOL airport but appears to be treated as such. In fact there now appears to be similarities in runway leght use by both Luton and London City Airport departures.
During the winter periods, why do the likes of Monarch and Thomson operate to Worldwide destinations from Gatwick but not Luton? This needs to be addressed. Here in Luton, the travel agents advertise some destinations in the Mediteranean from Gatwick and Stansted yet no flights from Luton. Why is Gatwick gaining more business from three of the biggest airlines that are actually based here at Luton? Lutons catchment is equal to that of Gatwick.
The lenght of runway is critical to Lutons growth. We dont need a new runway, just one that is extended!
Whilst I appreciate the vast majority of Albertis airport business interests is in 3rd World Countries, here in Luton, we should have by now been World Class but remain stagnent, not due to the recession but due to an uninspired operator!
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Bit of an exaggeration to say there are similarities in runway lengths used between LTN and LCY. However, the fact is that if you're taking an AT7 out to Waterford with a slim load, in all likelihood you'll need significantly less than half of the runway before you're airborne. There's no point wasting time and fuel taxiing to the end if your SOPs allow you not to.
I mentioned in my previous post about the runway length being a bottleneck - I agree with LTN Man to some extent. Is the airport looking to attract transatlantic and other long haul traffic? No. Even from ZB and TOM. I think its sad, but the focus has been for LTN to become a premier short haul airport only. Its never going to be competing on the same level as LGW it terms of destinations and aircraft types served.
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I kind of agree with Lee its dissapointing how the home based airlines neglect any sort of long haul from Luton but surely you could push an A330 or 757 out of LTN on a long distance flight with the current runway if you really wanted.. I just dont think they want or wanted to operate those routes from here.
Caledonian got those Fully packed Tristars off of the tarmac (eventually). ELAL operates the 777 in (allbeit not fully loaded). With the 787 coming to Thomson and its superior capabilities I was hoping Thomson would have done something from LTN but lol even East Midlands beat us.
Besides that random "swedish" airline with the 767's I am surprised nobody has tried Pakistan from Luton still.
Caledonian got those Fully packed Tristars off of the tarmac (eventually). ELAL operates the 777 in (allbeit not fully loaded). With the 787 coming to Thomson and its superior capabilities I was hoping Thomson would have done something from LTN but lol even East Midlands beat us.
Besides that random "swedish" airline with the 767's I am surprised nobody has tried Pakistan from Luton still.
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East Midlands is 9491ft
London Gatwick 10364ft
Luton 7087ft
Haven't both the airport owner & operator submitted plans for full length taxiway and additional runoffs. This will aid the bottleneck but not the additionof long haul flights. (maybe 787) aka not in the game plan.
London Gatwick 10364ft
Luton 7087ft
Haven't both the airport owner & operator submitted plans for full length taxiway and additional runoffs. This will aid the bottleneck but not the additionof long haul flights. (maybe 787) aka not in the game plan.
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Lutons runway needs to be extended at least by 1000 feet so that it can operate larger aircraft.
Here in Luton, the travel agents advertise some destinations in the Mediteranean from Gatwick and Stansted yet no flights from Luton. Why is Gatwick gaining more business from three of the biggest airlines that are actually based here at Luton? Lutons catchment is equal to that of Gatwick.
Luton has a bigger catchment area than Gatwick but the sad truth is that if you take a package holiday from Luton then you will pay a penalty.
I have a neighbour who lives less than a mile from the airport who is taking his family to somewhere hot using a package holiday company. Gatwick with a Saturday departure is £600 cheaper than the same holiday from Luton where the option was for a midweek departure. No brainer for him as he is off to Gatwick. This might well explain why package holidays now only account for 5% of all passengers from LTN.