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LUTON - 6

Old 5th Oct 2011, 19:50
  #3561 (permalink)  
 
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No really, as compton3bravo stated the airport is crammed full of Biz jets both day and overnight. I guess the rules will be yes your aircraft can come here to pick up and off load passengers but no it can't stay. Note sure that would not put off some customers.
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Old 6th Oct 2011, 06:42
  #3562 (permalink)  
 
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"...... dead spots like Southend .....".

Just beautiful LTNman, you poor old thing, seeing as SEN is quicker to the 2012 site than is LTN or STN.

Your gnashing of teeth over SEN's regeneration is just how some us old SEN stalwarts felt when LTN 'pinched' our traffic in the 1960s.
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Old 6th Oct 2011, 09:25
  #3563 (permalink)  
 
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2012

More than like plenty of business for eveyone, as the venues are spread all round UK, not just around London and national teams also all over UK.
If you want to watch the Sailing then the ain't going to use LTN or SEN!
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Old 6th Oct 2011, 09:59
  #3564 (permalink)  
 
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I cannot remember Channel Airways (largest Southend operator)decamping to Luton in the 1960s and early 70s when they introduced the 1-11, Trident and Comet am I sure they moved to Stansted but it did them no good in the end. Personally I think it was the expansion of Britannia (Thomson Travel), Autair - later Court Line (Clarksons) and Monarch (Cosmos) which really helped Luton to expand. Also the demise of British Eagle in November 1968 was a factor with Britannia, Monarch and Dan-Air establishing a base at Luton picking up a large part of British Eagleīs inclusive tour programme. Sorry Expressflight have to disagree with your views.
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Old 6th Oct 2011, 10:07
  #3565 (permalink)  
 
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Agree Pabely but I think the problems will arise with the opening and closing ceremonies. The latest I hear is that over 130 and counting heads of State or kings or queens will be attending these ceremonies because there is a dispute with the number in the official party with the organisers trying to limit the number to just 4 including security. We all know that these kings, queens etc. will want to stop in or near London because of the special road transport facilities expected to be put into place. I cannot see them wanting to land at Norwich for instance (sorry Norwich no offence meant) and then having to drive all the way to the east end of London.
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Old 6th Oct 2011, 10:40
  #3566 (permalink)  
 
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I agree, the opening and closing ceremonies are going to be the big issue.
Champions League finals are childs play compared with 130 heads of state!
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Old 6th Oct 2011, 11:52
  #3567 (permalink)  
 
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Airport Development

Has sleepy LADACAN just woken up?
Fears airport development could invade North Herts - News - The Comet
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Old 6th Oct 2011, 12:46
  #3568 (permalink)  
 
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c3b

It wasn't just Channel Airways at SEN in those days - there were many European operators such as Condor, Braathens, Schreiner and Transair to name but a few. Luton certainly attracted a number of such operators who would naturally have considered SEN - as their equivalents seem now to be doing - but for the runway length.

The simple fact was that required distances increased with legislation and SEN's already marginal runway was no longer sufficient. I doubt that it was a complete coincidence that the demise of SEN coincided with the growth at LTN. I agree that a number preferred to move to STN but I can assure you that in those days, rightly or wrongly, LTN was a dirty word among the SEN fraternity. Come to think of it, perhaps with SEN being a dirty word at LTN for some people now, what goes around comes around.
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Old 6th Oct 2011, 13:34
  #3569 (permalink)  
 
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I don't think SEN has a bad name at LTN, it is what is known in Hanger 89 at Luton which matters.....
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Old 6th Oct 2011, 17:29
  #3570 (permalink)  
 
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Luton never killed off Southend but it was the car ferries and a lack of investment.

I have a copy of the Southend Municipal Airport Handbook dated 1967. The book is full of photos of Carvairs and Bristol Freighters with really dated adverts for Ford Cortinaís and flights for £5 to Jersey. What hadnít changed until now was the photos of the terminal both inside and outside which could have been taken last year. The giveaway was that the terminal was full then and the restaurant had waiters complete with bow ties.

Last edited by LTNman; 6th Oct 2011 at 18:20.
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Old 6th Oct 2011, 18:15
  #3571 (permalink)  
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Grrr

My spies tell me that during the Champions League final last May, around 120 biz jets were on the ground at Luton.

During the Olympics we are likely to see executive flights arrive then position out to park up elsewhere. Duxford, Cranfield and North Weald are being linked with this. Dunsfold will also act as 'overspill' parking!
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Old 6th Oct 2011, 21:11
  #3572 (permalink)  
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240 head of state flights! 120 arrivals 120 departures! Do we really think all 120 will attend? Prob more like 70-80 but still a vast amount. By the time they make a decision whether or not they are going to attend, will they actually have an airport in London to go to.
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Old 7th Oct 2011, 04:28
  #3573 (permalink)  
 
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3000 extra Biz jets expected

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/1908/2012O...cePlanning.pdf
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Old 7th Oct 2011, 07:00
  #3574 (permalink)  
 
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You're completely correct LTNman when you say that lack of investment killed off SEN in the late 60s. A typical case of a Council owned airport who were happy to take the profits but refused to recognise that investment was needed if those profits were to continue.

Ah, the restaurant! They did things in style in those days.

What you say about the old terminal remaining virtually the same since those days until this year is basically true, but I think you would admit that no other airport in UK has seen the scale of transformation that is now taking place at SEN. It may have taken over 30 years, but what a place it's going to be by next summer.
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Old 7th Oct 2011, 09:22
  #3575 (permalink)  
 
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An interesting historical debate on the growth of LTN and the decline of SEN. All the contributions have validity and there are some other factors to add to the picture.

In the early days of the growth of the inclusive tour market much of the business was road/air/road using short cross-channel routes like SEN-OST. It was even claimed that SEN-OST was the busiest international air route in the world ! This model fell into decline after some high profile coach accidents on European motorways and the natural progression towards more direct flights. Channel Airways, which had been a major operator on these routes, moved with the market by buying Viscounts which could operate direct to the Med resorts. Channel had contracts with several major tour operators. Its biggest customer was Clarksons.

The current terminal at SEN dating from the mid 1990s is only approximately a quarter of the size of the building in use in the 1960s

As the tour market matured the tour operators began to favour LTN for its access not just to London and the south east but also to the Midlands. Add to this the inability of the jets to fly nonstop to the Med off SENís runway and SENís demise in the holiday market was sealed..

In fact I suspect in overall terms it was LGW rather than LTN that took more traffic from SEN. Two companies (Overseas and Air Safaris) moved out to LGW though they did not last long. Some Scandinavian companies moved their
operations too.

Agreed with the comments about Southend Council. I think they were completely out of their depth, they had no idea how to proceed. They were terrified by the noise lobby and they considered it politically unthinkable to propose developing their airport still further. In this respect at least they were probably correct.
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Old 7th Oct 2011, 09:23
  #3576 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting document LTMan especially regarding biz/executive movements. Of course the VVIPs will want to attend the opening and then some of them will depart and return for the closing ceremony. One thing that has occurred to me and probably to many other people - a for instance - I cannot imagine say the German Chancellor flying to Oxford and then driven the approximately 60 miles to the Stadium for the opening ceremony most of it on motorways with no special lanes. Surely people like that have got to land at Southend, Biggin, Stansted, Luton - just my 2 pennyworth. It is going to be very interesting how it all pans out - hope we don't have a blocked runway during the games!
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Old 7th Oct 2011, 11:30
  #3577 (permalink)  
 
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A certain FBO ...... which has the largest number of bases in UK is already advertising bookings on their homepage.
I suspect Northolt & Heathrow all get their share as well with the heads of states business.
With the lockdown of the airspace it's going to be a case of book early!
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Old 7th Oct 2011, 12:51
  #3578 (permalink)  
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Grrr

So where are the potential extra Monarch, easyJet (and I was also told) Wizz going to park their additional aircraft overnight next summer?
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Old 7th Oct 2011, 14:33
  #3579 (permalink)  
 
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Wizz Air

Are reducing Bucharest flights this winter due to night curfew changes by Banaesa Airport. 10% mentioned (2 flights per week?).
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Old 7th Oct 2011, 14:35
  #3580 (permalink)  
 
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Olympics

One thing not mentioned in the CAA document was a relaxation of night curfews for the duration of the Olympics. This would benefit LHR and LGW most I suspect.
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